AbNESII - Technologic Thread

[Lord_Iggy]

No, mass-produced steel came around in the industrial revolution. The first steel is just iron with interstitial carbon atoms, made by forging iron over high-carbon fuels, and was made in antiquity by some cultures.

History of Steelmaking

 

[Abaddon]

I think the limiting factor on making different tools was how hot you could make your forge, because each metal in that list neededs a higher temperature to meltdown. Also stirrups aren't the first thing you need for calvary. Stirrups are the invention that allows you to make heavy calvary. Originally all calvary was light calvary or calvary archers. Also there are levels to crop rotation. Originally there was none then you had two fields then you went to three and then in the industrial revolution you had a four field crop rotation system. Then there are plows. Wooden plows, copper plows, bronze plows, iron plows, heavy plows, steal plows.

All good ideas, keep them coming!

Currently you have warriors and horsemen.. what are the obvious inventions to advance them?

 

[Angst]

Cha-boom!

 

[Abaddon]

bRILLIIANT STUFF LJ

Thats a big help indeed.

 

[sp1023]

All good ideas, keep them coming!

Currently you have warriors and horsemen.. what are the obvious inventions to advance them?

Well, one advancement to warriors could be catapults. Maybe Kamikaze warriors.

For horsemen, a good suggestion would be spearmen on horses. Maybe the development of knights. You know, with lances and stuff.

For warriors, you could train some in martial arts, to defend when your weapon is knocked away. You know, crotch kick, head blow, wring.
For archers, you could have different types of bows. Composites could launch multiple arrows.

For archers, you could also have training, for more discipline and better aim.

 

[Fuschia]

A few suggestions...

Maybe it would be important to have a horse domestication/breeding technology before allowing cavalry?

Only have one invention for things such as the plow and certain types of weapons, and then assume that these are upgraded as the nation goes up through the metal age. So, upon discovery of bronze, all things that were mad with copper that had been discovered would then be made of bronze instead. Of course, it doesn't work with everything (some things can only be made with certain metals), but it makes everything much simpler for you.

Technologies should not include such things as basic tactics. Perhaps a separate stat for military quality that can be raised through investment is in order?

Same for unique units; unless they use a specifically new type of weapon, they should not require a new technology.

Developments such as social security and other social movements should also not be in technologies but should just come about as nations can afford and bother to develop them. I am sure that I could come up with some incredibly ancient and technologically negligent cultures with sophisticated social systems if I bothered to put my mind to it.

In general, keep technologies limited specifically to new developments rather than just new applications. It makes things easier for everyone.

 

[Demetrias]

Horseman inventions would be:
Horsemen: Default except for America
Horse Archery : Pre-requisite Archery, Allows Horse Archers, Leads to Heavy Horse Archers with Stirrup (Think Mameluks)
Saddle: Allows Light Calvary, Leads to Strirups
Horse Shoes: Bonus to all Horsemen units (Horse Archers, Light Calvary, etc.)
Stirrups: Allows Heavy Calvary, Leads to Heavy Horse Archers
Heavy Horse Archers: Allows Heavy Horse Archers

I want to add an entry here for the Polish Calvary and then Victorian Age Calvary but I am not sure what inventions really set them apart.

Also didn't chariots come before horsemen?

Warrior Inventions would be:
Warriors: Default
Bronze Weapons: Allows Bronze Warriors, Leads to Formations/Organized Armies, Bronze Spear-men with Spear
Spear: Allows Spear-men, Leads to Bronze Spear-men with Bronze Weapons
Formations/Organized Armies: Allows Light Infantry, Leads to Heavy Infantry with Bronze Armour, Phalanx with Bronze Armour and Bronze Spear
Bronze Spear: Allows Bronze Spearmen, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Armour
Bronze Armour: +Bonus to all Warrior units, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Spear, Heavy Infantry
Heavy Infantry: Allows Heavy Infantry (Think Roman Legions)
Phalanx: Allows Phalanx (Think Alexander the Great)
Iron Weapons: +Bonus to All units
Iron Armour: +Bonus to All units
Damascus Weapons: +Bonus to All units
Early Steal Weapons: +Bonus to All units
Early Steal Armour: +Bonus to All units
Gunpowder:
Bronze Cannons:
Iron Cannons:
Arbesques:
Light Arbesques:
Muskets:
Rifles:
Miniballs:


Didn't finish the list because it could go on forever how far do you want it?

 

[Abaddon]

steel and guns levels of development is on the optimistic side of things

 

[Abaddon]

Chariots did come first, I really should sort that

 

[sp1023]

These would work:

Warrior Inventions would be:
Warriors: Default
Bronze Weapons: Allows Bronze Warriors, Leads to Formations/Organized Armies, Bronze Spear-men with Spear
Spear: Allows Spear-men, Leads to Bronze Spear-men with Bronze Weapons
Formations/Organized Armies: Allows Light Infantry, Leads to Heavy Infantry with Bronze Armour, Phalanx with Bronze Armour and Bronze Spear
Bronze Spear: Allows Bronze Spearmen, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Armour
Bronze Armour: +Bonus to all Warrior units, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Spear, Heavy Infantry
Heavy Infantry: Allows Heavy Infantry (Think Roman Legions)

Iron Weapons: +Bonus to All units
Iron Armour: +Bonus to All units

Horsemen could have:
Plated armor
saddlebags of ammo.
arrows
spears

BAsically, you can fully load a horse with weaposns.

 

[Demetrias]

Why are stirrups at the beginning of your list? First stirrups weren't invented until the 3rd century ad and second you can't have stirrups before you have something to put them on namely a saddle.

 

[sp1023]

I don't understand why you would have social security. This isn't a very civilized society, you know.

 

[Demetrias]

steel and guns levels of development is on the optimistic side of things

Its chronological in order those are at the bottom because they would come after. I should have also put on there which metal techs lead to the new ones. I was just tired of writing by the end.

 

[Fuschia]

Warrior Inventions would be:
Warriors: Default
Bronze Weapons: Allows Bronze Warriors, Leads to Formations/Organized Armies, Bronze Spear-men with Spear
Spear: Allows Spear-men, Leads to Bronze Spear-men with Bronze Weapons
Formations/Organized Armies: Allows Light Infantry, Leads to Heavy Infantry with Bronze Armour, Phalanx with Bronze Armour and Bronze Spear
Bronze Spear: Allows Bronze Spearmen, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Armour
Bronze Armour: +Bonus to all Warrior units, Leads to Phalanx with Bronze Spear, Heavy Infantry
Heavy Infantry: Allows Heavy Infantry (Think Roman Legions)

Again, why do you need a separate technology for simply making spears with a different material, or armor? It makes little sense to me...

Also, their is no need to prefix units with their level of technology; you just allow the training of the military and put the cost of implementing the technology within the cost of "discovering" it. That is how I have always seen technologies in general anyways, as their is no cost to discovering a technology, only in implementing it.

I don't understand why you would have social security. This isn't a very civilized society, you know.

Again, there have been ancient civilizations with advanced social structures. The only one I can think up off the top of my head is the Incas, but I am sure their are others.

 

[sp1023]

Again, why do you need a separate technology for simply making spears with a different material, or armor? It makes little sense to me...

Also, their is no need to prefix units with their level of technology; you just allow the training of the military and put the cost of implementing the technology within the cost of "discovering" it. That is how I have always seen technologies in general anyways, as their is no cost to discovering a technology, only in implementing it.

We don't really need it. I suppose you could just research bronze, and then research spears, combine the researches, and bingo, you got bronze spears.

 

[Abaddon]

@ Fuscia.

Yes, a lot of these should not be called technologys, more a case of "development"

Tho i think this is just a terminology thing rather than its usage... we dont need a seperate quality stat, if you spend the money researching "tactics" in reality, you a trialing/testing the tactics as a nation.. an from this people can clearly see if they are likely able to out manouver an opposing army etc

 

[sp1023]

When's the update? Next weekend?

 

[Abaddon]

Why are stirrups at the beginning of your list? First stirrups weren't invented until the 3rd century ad and second you can't have stirrups before you have something to put them on namely a saddle.

stirrups was just thrown out their as i thought it was a pretty early horsey tech.. I am no history buff.

Thats why here an now we are discussing things to make it right

 

[sp1023]

Well, we could research saddle to make things right.

 

[Abaddon]

I don't understand why you would have social security. This isn't a very civilized society, you know.

YOUR nation might not be, but others might want to