RobAnybody
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2009
- Messages
- 1,952
To address all the above without a whole bunch of quotes, I'll just try to go with bullet points, some of which will be specifically addressed to individual posters, but are also meant generally:
- @Sarin: The Bill appears to me to apply to "literally anyone". That's *my* main concern as well - "carte blanche" as you put it. It then it goes on to specify "across state lines". It appears you are as incredulous to that as I am, but that was my reading of what @Broken_Erika quoted about the Bill. That does not seem to be a controversial position to me. Like you (it sounds like) if the Bill is saying something different, that could totally change my POV, but I think you may be understanding my objection.
- @Angst: you say "I don't take the kid." Then who does? Do you envision the Doctor coming & picking the kid up, like an Uber? The state borders thing is because that's also literally in the Bill. I quoted that in my original objection (& my subsequent quotings of it). It criminalizes taking someone else's child across state lines for the purpose an abortion without the parents' knowledge (& also providing them with prescription medicine). Have we been discussing this from two entirely different POVs? That could explain a lot.
- (also I'll answer your specific questions down below)
@Samson: I mean, if you can't give a logical reason for different age thresholds (nor can I) then why do they exist? "Intuitively" just doesn't seem like the basis for setting laws to me. Person A can consent to sex with Person B as long as they are "intuitively" X years older? And they could consent yesterday, but today is Person B's birthday, then Person B is suddenly a criminal? I completely respect you as a poster, & really like how you bring hard facts & links to any discussion but well, what I was referring to was not just this question but also the "can I go vaccinate other people's kids without their parents' knowledge?" question, which I felt like you have dodged/ignored.
@Angst:
- @Sarin: The Bill appears to me to apply to "literally anyone". That's *my* main concern as well - "carte blanche" as you put it. It then it goes on to specify "across state lines". It appears you are as incredulous to that as I am, but that was my reading of what @Broken_Erika quoted about the Bill. That does not seem to be a controversial position to me. Like you (it sounds like) if the Bill is saying something different, that could totally change my POV, but I think you may be understanding my objection.
- @Angst: you say "I don't take the kid." Then who does? Do you envision the Doctor coming & picking the kid up, like an Uber? The state borders thing is because that's also literally in the Bill. I quoted that in my original objection (& my subsequent quotings of it). It criminalizes taking someone else's child across state lines for the purpose an abortion without the parents' knowledge (& also providing them with prescription medicine). Have we been discussing this from two entirely different POVs? That could explain a lot.
- (also I'll answer your specific questions down below)
@Samson: I mean, if you can't give a logical reason for different age thresholds (nor can I) then why do they exist? "Intuitively" just doesn't seem like the basis for setting laws to me. Person A can consent to sex with Person B as long as they are "intuitively" X years older? And they could consent yesterday, but today is Person B's birthday, then Person B is suddenly a criminal? I completely respect you as a poster, & really like how you bring hard facts & links to any discussion but well, what I was referring to was not just this question but also the "can I go vaccinate other people's kids without their parents' knowledge?" question, which I felt like you have dodged/ignored.
@Angst:
No. [I know you said "just yes or no", but...] I guess I really need more clarification on your question, but could amend my answer depending. Make the choice without the parent's knowledge? No, absolutely not. Some random person, like you or me takes them to the Doctor? No, absolutely not (goes back to my: random people don't get to take other people's kids, anywhere, for any reason). But if they are at a hospital, & the minor child wants to abort & the parents oppose it, I'd support the kid's choice (assuming the Doctor supported it as well), regardless of the parents' wishes. That just seems too contrived though, & is highly unlikely to be a real world situation (not saying it *never* happens, just not applicable to what we're discussing).so, just yes or no.
do you think a kid should freely be able to choose to abort, regardless of its parents wishes
I think where we disagree is the whole getting from A to B part. Jumping into an ice cream truck to me reads like "anyone can take your kid" without the parents' knowledge. Which is what this Bill exactly says isn't allowed & I said I didn't see anything wrong with. So it actually sounds like we don't fundamentally disagree in regards to this Bill: You, nor I, nor an ice cream truck, can just take someone's kid. I mean... right? Even if we "mean well"? Did we solve it?it's not like the kid is jumping into an ice cream truck and disappearing into the woods. it's rather, like, the kid wants to see a doctor about something quite pressing.
i'll reiterate, sure, inform the parents about it.
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