Abortion - What do you think about it?

What do you think the legal status of Abortion should be

  • Abortions should be illegal in all cases

    Votes: 14 13.5%
  • Abortion should only be allowed if the mother is in danger of life, or the pregnancy was cause thru

    Votes: 29 27.9%
  • Abortion should be allowed during the first 12 weeks if the mother is in personal distress caused by

    Votes: 29 27.9%
  • Something else entirely

    Votes: 32 30.8%

  • Total voters
    104
"I can kill a sleeping person without causing them pain either, but that's just as
wrong as torturing them to death"

More fallacy. Read a few laws and you'll soon see the difference between murder and murder plus torture.
 
Originally posted by The Troquelet
(FL)"I can kill a sleeping person without causing them pain either, but that's just as wrong as torturing them to death"

More fallacy. Read a few laws and you'll soon see the difference between murder and murder plus torture.
Given that wrong is wrong, and right is right, and that I see an action as either right or wrong, I stand by my quoted statement above. Both merit punishment. Shades of grey are used in charcoal sketches, not morality.

(FL pauses, shakes his head, and wonders why he is responding to moral arguments from someone who has a stated disbelief in the existence of morality...):rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by The Troquelet
With the exception, of course, that Samuel Wilberforce was a passable debater at times.
Just can't pass up the opportunity to attack the debater instead of the position, can you?
 
hhmmmmm akka and traguard dont attack his personality attack him with a brilliant argument where there is no counter argment
 
Why should they start now? :rolleyes:
 
Ok i going to try to do a debate with fearless.
fearless thank you for not turning this in a flamewar.
ok lets say from the foetus undevelepod mind.
i going to ask you 1 thing:is this logical?:
"uhm sorry i will not drink the beer i gonna drive tomorrow"
is this logical?
NO!
now replace that with abortion.Voila.
Lets not forget its in the woman interest to let the woman choose
between abortion and no abortion or are they too stupid too do that?
woman are slarter so that is a good decision
and akka chilll out on him.its his opinion,how much you disagree with it its HIS OPINION!
i did a counter argument on 2 things.you go fight it out chaps:cool:
 
"Just can't pass up the opportunity to attack the debater instead of the position, can you?"

You haven't MADE a position! So far what you have is bigotry, the "word" of "God", and (as if that weren't enough) the arrogant assurance that you are right - that you are on the right side of the "moral" argument. With, of course, no proof.

We (well, I) have several good arguments. Anyone with a head on his shoulders knows illegalizing something never stops it - drugs, alcohol, etc. Therefore, if you really have an argument against abortion, wouldn't it be much more useful to pump government money into sex education (gasp!) to make people prevent conception EARLIER with condoms and the pill, rather than forcing women to risk kill themselves? And then, if by an accident some woman accidentally becomes pregnant, she'll have an ALTERNATIVE way out with abortion if everything else fails?

Unless, of course, it's more moral to force women to risk killing themselves. :lol: You crack me up. I await with glee your repartee.
 
And don't bother getting off track replying to phillipe and ignoring me! I can't understand half his argument anyway :lol:
 
Me being ignorant of course!

Though not probable. Then again How could I Know? (getting into a bit of a descartian dilemma here...)
 
Originally posted by philippe

because your ignorant
Um, phillipe, I don't understand what you said either. Sorry.
 
Originally posted by The Troquelet
"Just can't pass up the opportunity to attack the debater instead of the position, can you?"

You haven't MADE a position!
None that you will recognize with more than an ad hominem attack at any rate.
Originally posted by The Troquelet
"So far what you have is bigotry,
*SIGH*
Originally posted by The Troquelet
the "word" of "God",
...used ONLY to support my interpretation of Christianity's position, not used to support my arguments against abortion, a fact that you continue to deny in the face of all reason and plainly observable reality.
Originally posted by The Troquelet
and (as if that weren't enough) the arrogant assurance that you are right - that you are on the right side of the "moral" argument. With, of course, no proof.
None that anyone who denies the existence of morality will accept, at any rate.
Originally posted by The Troquelet
We (well, I) have several good arguments. Anyone with a head on his shoulders
The 'no true Scotsman' fallacy...
Originally posted by The Troquelet
knows illegalizing something never stops it - drugs, alcohol, etc.
Making it legal, OTOH, stops it dead in its tracks, right? When you legalise something, more people do it. When you legalise something that is bad, more people therefore are doing something BAD. Explain why this is a good thing...
Originally posted by The Troquelet
Therefore, if you really have an argument against abortion, wouldn't it be much more useful to pump government money into sex education (gasp!) to make people prevent conception EARLIER with condoms and the pill,
No. The answer is to teach that the only 100% effective means of birth control is ABSTINENCE, and to teach our children to exercise SELF-CONTROL. No tax money required. Perfect, simple, foolproof. No sex means no unwanted babies. Of course, that means you'd(abortion supporters as a whole, not you personally) actually have to do your duty as parents, and we all know that isn't going to happen, right?
Originally posted by The Troquelet
rather than forcing women to risk kill themselves?
Once again, for the record:
Actions have consequences.
Consequences make people re-consider those actions.
If you take away the consequences, the action no longer receives re-consideration.
The action is done far more frequently.
This is how morality decays.

Originally posted by The Troquelet
And then, if by an accident some woman accidentally becomes pregnant, she'll have an ALTERNATIVE way out with abortion if everything else fails?
Answer this question: Why is murdering the baby preferable to giving it up for adoption?
Originally posted by The Troquelet
Unless, of course, it's more moral to force women to risk killing themselves. :lol: You crack me up. I await with glee your repartee.
I love the way you go straight to the most emotional argument you can find, and then accuse me of the same as if when I do it it's bad.

Suppose that without recourse to legal infanticde, these women sought out the fathers of their children, married them or sued for child support, or at least pre-natal care, and then gave the child up for adoption or raised it themselves? But no, this pre-supposes that someone would willingly take responsibility for their own actions, and for some reason, such an activity seems to be anethema to your way of thinking. Since you cannot imagine such a scenario, you have to assume the worst possible outcomes instead.

I am glad that you find my championing of morality and responsibility a source of amusement. I hope that others will find it otherwise.
 
Reading through this thread's latter section,
I have to say that FearlessLeader2 holds the high ground.

He has kept the head and not flamed,
And gave valid reasoning to back up his moral stance.

I can think of no good reason for a healthy child to be eliminated,
Only if a mother's or the child's life is in danger or if the quality of the child's life is nil.
There are sometimes valid medical reasons for abortion.

When it comes to people deciding on abortion to get rid of a merely 'unwanted' child...
Then that is wrong.
Having sex without thinking about the consequences is the province of cretins, that is basic.
People should take the responsibility for their actions.

Pregnancy via sex attacks is a tough scenario to you all to discuss,
It is too horrible a thing for a woman to suffer,
It would be really have to be looked at on an individual basis.

(Rapists and sex attackers should hang. In my opinion.)

These words are not the law, just my viewpoints.
 
Fearless, I prove your arguments wrong and irrelevant and you say I can't understand them? Isn't there an inherent contradiction here? Not (don't tell me this is ad hominem, I know it is and you deserve it) that you would notice.

Also, look at this weaselling!

"You haven't MADE a position!



None that you will recognize with more than an ad hominem attack at any rate....


None that anyone who denies the existence of morality will accept, at any rate."

Does that nullify the fact that you HAVEN'T made a position?

------------

A little side repartee to Curt Sibling:

"He has kept the head and not flamed"

and this, I suppose, makes him right?

"And gave valid reasoning "

Where exactly?

"
When it comes to people deciding on abortion to get rid of a merely 'unwanted' child...
Then that is wrong."

I never argued that, in fact I agree with you! All I am saying is that outlawing abortion won't solve anything, and that Fearless is a fool for wanting to.

-----------------

So far as I can see, Fearless, your sole argument against a program that might actually WORK is that it is not as high-and-righteous as you like!

Which, to not mince words (and not flame), is sheer idiocy.

Expecting every person in the US of A to be a moral paragon (as I'm sure you are quite capable of being) is, again, idiocy.

My viewpoint is that we should give people a reason to take the lesser evil alternative: we should campaign and educate the people to use birth control instead, and only abortion as a last resort.

Your viewpoint, of course, is that women who have abortions deserve what they get if they die - callousness. We should expect teenagers to totally abstain from the sexual act - naivette. Women who take birth control but still get a child should just bear it as best they can - unrealistic. My morals should be imposed on everyone else - IDIOCY!

To hell with respecting other viewpoints. Your argument is such a piece of pompous, self-righteous, blown-up, hot-air arrogance, it's a wonder you don't have colic.

My only consolation in this debate is that the majority of women (and a large number of men as well) favor my side as the only reasonable solution. You're a bastion of anachronism and close-mindedness! I thank God daily that people like you are not in control of society, but instead relegated to the fringe outskirts of fanaticism, bigotry, and intolerance.

Regardless, I am leaving this thread for you to provide an example to society of the effects of a conservative and fundamentalist up-bringing, and you may continue to spout your blather at thin air with my blessing.

Goodbye.
 
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