Add Gender Options in the sidebar

[Omega124]

When I was reading a thread today, in one page I found two examples of a user's gender being confused of being the opposite gender. While this may not be exactly an everyday problem, the fact this can happen is evidence enough for a small, minor request in the user details section.

There is simply nowhere in the user details section at all to set your gender, which I find to be a strange oversight. Most forums include that option, and even conveniently put it underneath the avatar along with some of the other information that we already put under the avatar. I see no real reason not to include an ability to put down a gender if you want to (For those who say Gender is complex and can't fit in a Male/Female dichotomy, it can be a fill-in box instead of a simple Male/Female choice). I don't think it would take much effort to implement, and wouldn't put much stress on the servers. Really, I can't think of any reason not to include this besides apathy.

TLDR: Put a gender option in the user options, and include it underneath location on all posts.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

 

[Omega124]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

The fact that I know more female users besides those two proves that statement wrong.

 

[Kyriakos]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

Afaik only Valka continues to post, of those two (?). So yeah

I doubt this happens only in the OT forum, either. I recall maybe two females (or claiming to be so) ever posting in the CivII or CivIII subforum here.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

The fact that I know more female users besides those two proves that statement wrong.

Maybe they're the 1% then? It doesn't prove my statement wrong now, does it..?

 

[leif erikson]

Maybe they're the 1% then? It doesn't prove my statement wrong now, does it..?

What percentage does it need to be to believe they should be minimized or ignored?

1% of 250,000 registered users is? I believe your statement is wrong.

 

[Loppan Torkel]

What percentage does it need to be to believe they should be minimized or ignored?

1% of 250,000 registered users is? I believe your statement is wrong.

Yes, I'm pretty sure the statement is somewhat wrong. It wasn't meant to be analysed and I really don't mind dividing the forum in males and females. If someone is minimized or ignored because of your forum design, you might need to change it.

 

[The_J]

I'd like to see this place as a place where things like gender, race/ethnicity, religious affilition, sexual orientation, age and other things don't matter.
You shouldn't add a sort of discriminating factor to this forum, which doesn't matter in the vast majority of all cases.

 

[Evie]

Except that the english language itsel establishes that distinction and some people may be annoyed by constantly being distinguished the wrong way.

 

[Omega124]

It's also completly opt-in. If you don't want to be discriminated based on gender, simply don't give it out. It's that easy.

 

[Arachnofiend]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

Ahem.

Agreeing with Omega here. It's a worthy option for people who would prefer not to be misgendered and it's completely optional for those who don't care. Which are generally going to guys who get "he" regardless.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

Well, there's Lucy, Chieftess, one or two other women who very occasionally post in OT, and I've been informed that there are women who post in the Civ forums but not in the Colosseum. There are some male posters who people have in the past assumed to be women because of their usernames (ie. Joan) or their avatars (personally, I rarely use male avatars unless it's Carl Sagan, Spud, Doctor Who, or Business Cat).

Afaik only Valka continues to post, of those two (?). So yeah

I doubt this happens only in the OT forum, either. I recall maybe two females (or claiming to be so) ever posting in the CivII or CivIII subforum here.

I've noticed Aimee posting in the Computer forum. Are you counting me among the Civ II posters? I don't post there as often as I used to, but do still on occasion. And years ago I posted in Civ III and Civ IV.

I'd like to see this place as a place where things like gender, race/ethnicity, religious affilition, sexual orientation, age and other things don't matter.
You shouldn't add a sort of discriminating factor to this forum, which doesn't matter in the vast majority of all cases.

Whut?

Who's talking about posting our race/ethnicity, religious affiliation, sexual orientation, age, etc.? Besides, I already posted that stuff years ago: female, human of Swedish/Norwegian ancestry, atheist, I like guys, turned 50 this year... none of that's news (or shouldn't be) to the regulars here. Many of us have similarly revealed this information, and I don't see a lot of discrimination going on.

It's been a long time since anyone here has said to me that I couldn't possibly be a gamer if I'm female (and if they do, I will point out that most of the people in my old gaming groups, whether board games, computer games, RPGs, and even SCA) were women - and the group sometimes had more of a 50/50 ratio between male/female, but the males were never the dominant number). I'm glad I haven't had to keep pointing out that I'm a woman and therefore would prefer not to be addressed as "Dude" or "man". I've seen from Aimee's sig that she's gone through this frustration as well, of being addressed as a male when she would prefer not to be.

Another forum I belong to has a simple opt-in option available in the user preferences. The result is a discreet graphic below my user name that indicates I'm female. Granted, a lot of the people on the forum either don't notice it or choose to ignore it, but at least they don't have a real excuse for not knowing.

Personally, I prefer to know if I'm addressing a man or woman. For one thing, it makes using pronouns a lot easier and it sometimes does alter the tone and content of a reply or argument. I've heard the "what difference does it make" argument for years, and I can say that it's damn frustrating at times to be trying to explain to Person C what Person B said when I don't know if I should use "he" or "she" in reference to Person B. Using "he/she" and "him/her" seems so disrespectful, yet it's the most polite way we have in the English language.


I have seen some awful instances of discrimination on other forums - ie. that a gay man couldn't possibly be a middle-tier moderator, because what would the younger forum members' parents think? That happened a few years ago, and suffice to say, it caused quite a nasty backlash among some of the members... who are now ex-members, having quit in disgust.

On a now-defunct Doctor Who forum, a Christian woman told me that atheists should not be allowed to celebrate Christmas... not for any reason whatsoever. I set her straight on my own reasons for continuing some of the customs I grew up with, she couldn't wrap her tiny, prejudiced mind around it, and when a mutual friend created the offshoot Doctor forum I now co-admin, this woman decided not to follow along. And good riddance, as far as I'm concerned.


However, I do think that the general forum culture of CFC is well above the two examples I just gave. I don't see any negatives in allowing people to post their gender if they want to, and it could possibly clear up years' worth of misunderstanding in some cases. It would also greatly lessen the instances of someone saying, "I'm a man" or "I'm a woman" - please address me accordingly."

 

[ori]

My view is this: currently you'd probably be right assuming at least 90% of users here to be male - if you have no information to the contrary that roughly comes down to just assuming a user to be male by default - if we add this option nothing changes as you can be assured that you'll have way more male users claiming to be female than actual females using this option to indicate that they are female.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So in your view, it's less work for you to ignore this request than it is for the people who get mistaken for one or the other to just have to put up with the aggravation and frustration of having to correct people and then further put up with the "I don't believe you when you say you're a woman" or "If you're a man, why do you have a woman's username or have a woman as your avatar picture" comments?

Even Padma had trouble with people thinking him female (because they confused the Dorsai character Padma with the Star Wars character Padme).

 

[ori]

Edit: on second thought lets rephrase this: posting my opinion about such an option being next to useless does not constitute saying anything about this being less work for me or admins (in this case admins actually) as if its possible the work is likely to be minimal. Nor have I even hinted at this being any problem (the only "problem" being cluttering of the options side at some point if too many requests like this are granted). I just stated my opinion of this being next to useless.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Ori, I know perfectly well what your original post said, and it would be really nice if you'd stop bringing your personal biases into the points I make and the questions I ask. Re-read my post - it asked a question (in a roundabout way, but still a question).

The point I believe you were actually making is this: Because the vast majority of the posters here are male, there doesn't need to be any effort made to accommodate the minority who are female (and resent being referred to as male or disbelieved when they say they're female) and those who are male but may be perceived as female because of such things as the "a" ending of their username or their choice of avatar, or because their name may look female to an English speaker but is actually a non-English spelling of a man's name.

As for "clutter"... the graphics used on other forums are discreet and no more noticeable (and much less noticeable in many cases) than what's in some peoples' sigs.

Since you rightly point out that making this simple change is something only an admin can do, may we please have an admin's input? Ainwood? Plotinus?

 

[Catharsis]

If we assume everyone's a male unless it's Valka or Aimee, I think we'll be correct 99% of the time.

Ahem.

This option would be helpful to avoid situations like the above.

Speaking as someone who has spent the past six years being referred to as Cathy, I would also appreciate this feature

 

[Leoreth]

Let me counterpropose a slightly different option: I've seen forums allow you to select the pronoun you'd like to be referred to with*. Because that's what really matters when you come across someone you don't know in an internet discussion.

It also has the advantage that it doesn't enforce any gender binary or cisnormative view on gender (or alternately, saves us the trouble of reflecting the whole gender identity spectrum in the available gender options). Because if we're doing this we should be doing it right, without discriminating certain people.

Everyone knows which pronoun they want to be used for them, and it's polite to comply with their wishes. Now they'd have a way to easily communicate their wish without awkward "actually I'm not a 'he'" replies. To me it's immaterial whether "actual" males would choose "she" ... if they're fine with being called that, that's what I'll do.

It's also irrelevant that this is a male dominated board. Even if it's just 1% of the community, they shouldn't be marginalized because of it. If anything, the constant assumption that everyone is male makes it even more important to supply an easy means for those who don't identify as such to communicate this.

*this would of course be a dropdown menu with the sensible options (he, she, they ...), so smartasses can't type "his imperial highness" there.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So how do you propose this be displayed? It seems a bit awkward to have a note under our username that says something like "Please refer to me as 'she' (or 'he' as the case may be)."

 

[Mise]

As a straight white man, I find that the status quo suits me fine. Everyone is default male unless they prove otherwise, which is very convenient from my point of view. Adding an optional check box on your profile to identify posters who aren't men is fine by me.

In addition to Aimee and Valka, I can think of at least two other people who have had problems with people misgendering them: Aelf and Zelig. Both of these posters have been wrongly identified as men -- despite Aelf posting numerous pictures in the Members Photos thread! An icon identifying them as non-Men would certainly nip this in the bud!


(/s Seriously though I don't see why there can't be an optional gender or pronoun box on your profile.)