[Addons] Additional Wonders

[Pouakai]

I'm Sorry, I can't see that as a wonder :/

 

[skodkim]

I'm Sorry, I can't see that as a wonder :/

Agreed!

\Skodkim

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Alright... step away from Architecture (each & every Vanilla "Buildings" of Political Wonders, btw) for a split second and expand your horizons on what everything *else* means to whomever created any such Cultural (allllmmmooosssttt) messages to future generations for the benefit of Humanity -- aside from Science (Tech-Tree) & Religion (absent in CiV).
Hollywood, Broadway & Rock&Roll (etc) were actually in Civ4 and represented the 7th Art, IIRC.

 

[ambrox62]

About totem...

Because I was unaware about totem matter, I've made some researches on wikipedia.

First thing I've learnt is the main difference between totem and totem-pole.

Quote for totem:
A totem is a stipulated ancestor of a group of people, such as a family, clan, lineage, or tribe.
Totems support larger groups than the individual person. In kinship and descent, if the apical ancestor of a clan is nonhuman, it is called a totem. Normally this belief is accompanied by a totemic myth.
Although the term is of Ojibwe origin in North America, totemistic beliefs are not limited to Native Americans. Similar totem-like beliefs have been historically present in societies throughout much of the world, including Africa, Asia, Australia, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, and the Arctic polar region.
In modern times, some single individuals, not otherwise involved in the practice of a tribal religion, have chosen to adopt a personal spirit animal helper, which has special meaning to them, and may refer to this as a totem. This non-traditional usage of the term is prevalent in the New Age movement, and the mythopoetic men's movement.

Quote for totem pole:
Totem poles are monumental sculptures carved from large trees, mostly Western Red Cedar, by cultures of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast of North America. The word totem is derived from the Ojibwe word odoodem, "his kinship group".
Being made of cedar, which decays eventually in the rainforest environment of the Northwest Coast, few examples of poles carved before 1900 exist. Noteworthy examples include those at the Royal British Columbia Museum in Victoria, BC and the Museum of Anthropology at UBC in Vancouver, BC, dating as far back as 1880. And, while 18th century accounts of European explorers along the coast indicate that poles certainly existed prior to 1800, they were smaller and few in number.

These concepts bring some important considerations:

1) Totem is a ancient and worldwide item; totem-pole is a recent and western-native limited item

2) As consequences, totem-pole doesn't deserve the rank of "world wonder". Furthermore, it also doesn't deserve the rank of "unique building" for Iroquois, because they were a tribe located in the eastern coast of America. (This also explains why I didn't find any painting showing Iroquois seating or dancing around a totem pole).

3) As final result, we should discuss about to promote totem to the rank of WW or not. Beware: not totem as native american, but totem as worldwide concept, chosing which picture is best representing it.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Agreed... the etymology differs between Poles & the more generalistic Totem(s). Sorry for the confusion.
It's a "Sculpture" made out of wood & Painted to add some artistic value but has a profound meaning (as exposed earlier) -- only.

Then...Let's compare apples with oranges or bananas, shall we;

Statue of Liberty is a gigantic *architectural* structure that symbolizes Industrialization & New York City.
Taj Mahal was an expression of eternal love for a deceased wife by a Maharaja... again, a building that people can visit & admire for its luxurious marble.

A world Wonder (to me) is a representation of thoughts & an attempt at inducing awe from foreign visitors of the location. By extension, Civ players have long wrongfully believed such gameplay elements are monumental achievements of international value. In a sense that we perceive any on the timeline of historical markers.

Now, think of Natural Wonders or even Projects.
Are they any less capable to provoke an *Emotional* response or just your regular Political link with whomever happens to be near MtFuji or having been lucky (or RICH) enough to send 12 astronauts on the Moon, first?

There lies the distinction...
The phenomenal reasons why such things are done is that they have purpose.
Channel Tunnel linked France & UK.

Totem Poles stated for future generations that Nature & Family are of incredibly high importance not only to *THEM* but to all that can & bother to interpret the signs. Instead of burying their mummified Pharaohs (Chiefs, btw) in Tombs which are simply Temples to personal power.

I don't care much about worldwide considerations to define Wonders since Ingenuity is much more than just matter & words abstracted to serve National prides.

Scrap the Totem Poles, i really don't care one way or another but if you think the luxurious Hanging Gardens or the religious Cristo Redentor or the timeless Big Ben (etc) deserve such slots... you're either biased or missing the whole point of snakes, eagles & turtles roaming in the wild or the minds of not only Native Americans but everyone on Earth.

 

[ambrox62]

Pergamon Altar Wonder is out

You may download it HERE or using CiV mod browser

Screenshots

Spoiler :

 

[Garett20]

Isn't that a little overpowered?

 

[Pouakai]

It only means doubling it. (I Think)

 

[ambrox62]

Isn't that a little overpowered?

On paper it seems exaggeratedly high ... but ... you should consider that:

a) it's a one-shot effect: just after completed the wonder, influence starts to decrease every turn as usual
b) the effect works with all known CS with influence greater than 0 (200% of 0 gives 0)
c) you can't use it in combo with UN to obtain a easy diplo victory because it's a early wonder (you can't build it after medieval era), while UN comes very later in the game
d) to get a strong effect, you should have a large influence on as many CS as possible at the time you complete the wonder; to do that, you should drive the game towards CS alliances from the beginning. Having a CS influence of 20-30 (a "good" value in the classical/medieval eras) results in a 60-90 effect, not so "broken" as it would appear

Test it in a game, then post here a feedback. May be I was wrong in my evaluation
This is a really unique effect in the CiV building category: it may be broken, useless, bringer of new initial strategies

 

[ambrox62]

Totem Poles stated for future generations that Nature & Family are of incredibly high importance

Well, looking at the whole matter by the "ancestor, nature and family" perspectives, the Totem might have a sense, although the concept (and the rank) of "wonder" still remains subjective and questionable, imo.

Nonetheless, if you really like and absolutely want a Totem wonder, I'll do it

Please, just complete or revise the infos below:

Name -> The Totem
Era -> ancient
Tech -> trapping
City requirement -> none
Cost -> 220
Culture points-> 1
Specialist type -> ???
Specialst points -> 1
Effect -> ???

 

[ambrox62]

And no worries, if you don't have time to do the Alhambra

I'll do Alhambra also. I already got the base graphics to work on.

Please, complete (or revise) the infos below:

Name -> The Alhambra
Era -> (late) medieval
Tech -> steel
City requirement -> none
Cost -> 600
Culture points-> 1
Specialist type -> ???
Specialst points -> 1
Effect -> ???

 

[Pouakai]

I would've said engineering, but I guess steel is fine. Maybe Chivalry, because the effect directly relates to castles.

City Req- Built on a hill (If possible, if not, nearby mountain)
Culture - 2
Specialist - Great Engineer / Great Artist (Possible to have both?)
Effect - Castles provide +1 culture and are 20% more effective

 

[Zyxpsilon]

Nonetheless, if you really like and absolutely want a Totem wonder, I'll do it

Please, just complete or revise the infos below:

Name -> The Totem
Era -> ancient Classical
Tech -> trapping Optics
City requirement -> none
Cost -> 220 300
Culture points-> 1
Specialist type -> ??? Scientist
Specialst points -> 1
Effect -> ??? Unlocks Growth that allows cities to convert 25% Production to Food

Thanks, and refer to the inserted "Blues" above should you want my perception of possible rational choices.

PS; Note that i could have also used a Renaissance or Industrial tech to locate it since the western Pacific coast artifacts concluded the earliest examples of such "Structures" were discovered in the 18th century at most. In which case, the effect is more relevant when triggered by Scientific Theory and cost would be raised at 550+.

 

[Moriboe]

Having a CS influence of 20-30 (a "good" value in the classical/medieval eras) results in a 60-90 effect, not so "broken" as it would appear.

Pretty cool. I used small values for the modern age, but I'll add this one too, great idea! Probably going to put it on the Parthenon though.

Unlocks Growth that allows cities to convert 25% Production to Food

Good suggestion! The Growth process can easily be implemented, but I don't think tying it to a building (instead of a tech) is possible with just the XML, my guess is it needs LUA.

Many good things coming from this thread

 

[ambrox62]

I would've said engineering, but I guess steel is fine. Maybe Chivalry, because the effect directly relates to castles.

City Req- Built on a hill (If possible, if not, nearby mountain)
Culture - 2
Specialist - Great Engineer / Great Artist (Possible to have both?)
Effect - Castles provide +1 culture and are 20% more effective

Chivalry already got Himeji Castle as WW and other stuff, engineering is early medieval. Ok for steel (it has 4 empty slots) and "on hill" city req. The alhambra is a fortress, engineer sounds better.

Afaik, using XML there is no way to modify building attribs through another building, and I'm not skilled enough to write LUA code.
You should suggest me another effect.

 

[CYZ]

I'm very much in favour of late modern era wonders that have a huge impact (to make up for being so late).

I've always felt that Dubai's Island of the World or Palm Island was missing.

Island of the World

I'd put it in at Globalization. And perhaps it gives you a very large amount of money at once, besides culture perhaps. After all, they sold parts of the islands for cash (didn't make up for the costs I think but still).

Palm island

Alternative to Island of the world. Let it give perhaps 1 gold per population in this city or 1 gold per 2 population.


Also, how about this article
That could be a nice one right?

 

[ambrox62]

Thanks, and refer to the inserted "Blues" above should you want my perception of possible rational choices.

According to this wiki statement:
Some scholars have suggested that totemic culture spread from ancient Asian populations to the rest of the world. Others conclude that totemism arose separately in numerous cultures; totemic cultures in North America are estimated to have been more than 10,000 years old.

I would set Totem earlier than the classic/optics you proposed. Sailing (if you dislike trapping) could be the right tech (at 220 cost), or archery with further cost reduction to 200. I see Totem like the first among the vanilla CiV wonders.

As Moriboe said, there is no way to set a "growth" effect without LUA code, and I'm not the right man to write it
Please, suggest me another effect

 

[ambrox62]

Probably going to put it on the Parthenon though.

I opted to follow the historical use as treasury for the Parthenon, giving it a gold bonus instead. But it'll work fine in a CS influence view.

 

[ambrox62]

I've always felt that Dubai's Island of the World or Palm Island was missing.

Yes, they are missing for sure

The moscow palace seems really interesting instead....

 

[CYZ]

Yes, they are missing for sure

The moscow palace seems really interesting instead....

I know Maybe the it's a wonder that will give a huge gold bonus but disappear after two turns =D