AG10 - OCC Conquest (Emperor)

microbe said:
Why did we want to build JS Bach in the first place? And Magallan's is useless to us. Why not switch to bank? Let the AI waste shields on it.

I did not want to build JSBach. I only wanted to save the shields which otherwise would have been lost. Making a bank at that time would have wasted a ton of shields.

Magellan maybe useless to us but at least it gives us some culture.

I guess I could have accepted the shields as a sunk cost and carried on. Oh Well...
 
Whoa, I'm up again! I got it. I'll probably have the turns posted tonight.

Edit: No can do, I'll post them tomorrow.
 
Sorry, but I'm going to have to be skipped. I'm way too busy....

Edit: Or, could you give me another day? I'd definately be able to post them by tomorrow.
 
Okay, my turns were pretty lame, but here...

Turn 0: Everything looks good; press [enter].

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 1: Nothing much. Bank in 3 turns, Democracy in 4.

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 2: I find that Maya acquires Chemistry. I'll be able to get it when we learn Democracy.

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 3: I can lower science to 70% and still get Democracy in 2. We now gain 41 gpt.

IBT: Berlin: Bank -> Knight

Turn 4: Democracy in 1; I can't lower science any further.

IBT: Finish researching Democracy. I don't revolt. I begin Free Artistry a 100%. Knights Templar produces a Crusader. I don't know what we are going to use as a prebuild to get Shakespeare's Theater, but....

Turn 5: Bad news. If we were planning to trade Democracy, the Mayans and the French both discovered it at the same time as us and now both have Chemistry.

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 6: I think about buying Chemistry. I check with the Mayans and the French. The French are selling it cheaper, so I buy it for 651 gold and 38 gpt. I lower research to 70% to get Free Artistry in 14. We now gain 12 gpt.

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 7: Nothing much.

IBT: Berlin: Knight -> Wealth. We lose our supply of wines.

Turn 8: I trade Inca Astronomy for Wines, World Map, and 1 gold. I raise science to 80% to get Free Artistry in 10 turns. We are losing 1 gpt.

IBT: Nothing much.

Turn 9: Nothing much.

IBT: Knights Templar produces Crusader. We are now losing 3 gpt; we get Free Artistry in 8 turns.

Turn 10: Nothing much.

My questions: What was the plan? Was I supposed to be researching Free Artistry? When are we planning to go to war and with who?
 
Free artistry was the plan indeed. We should switch to a prebuild within 4 turns. It also may be worth it not to sell this tech. I'd say that the first war can starts soonish. Hurting the Romans a bit by taking Hispalis. I really think that we should start our campaign with cavalry, go into higher gear with artillery and kill it off with panzers...I hope :)

ROSTER (15 turns in peace time, 10 turns when at war):
Aggie
6thgentexan
betazed
Greebley-----up?
homeyg
Microbe------on deck
 
Turn 6: I think about buying Chemistry. I check with the Mayans and the French. The French are selling it cheaper, so I buy it for 651 gold and 38 gpt. I lower research to 70% to get Free Artistry in 14. We now gain 12 gpt.

Did all AIs have Chemistry and Democracy at that time?

I would have waited. We may trade Democracy to any AI that just got Chemistry. Or we could do so when we get Free Artistry.

There was no compelling reason that we had to get Chemistry at that time. Plenty of chance for 2-fers..
 
Preturn:
Homeyg, minor MM tip - If you are producing wealth then MM for gold. You were working 2 3 gold squared when you could be working 4 gold squares.

On what to build: Upgrading a horse to knight costs 120 gold. If I change our build of wealth to build knights then I can build one in 4 turns. The wealth was gaining us 4 gpt. So for 4*4 = 16 gold I can disband a horse and build a knight. Therefore the knight is a better option.

You will find this true in general:
If you own any "antique" unit, then you should only be on wealth if you have a strong reason to (like getting a tech quicker). Disband the old units and build new.


There is one other thing to build: Since we are going for free artistry we can grow to size 20. If we had workers, then we could merge them in. So I am going to switch to a worker when the food box fills. I may be able to build a few before we start on the Wonder.

IBT: Some gpt from another civ runs out and we have to slow free artistry.
Metallurgy is now known by both France and Mayans. The two strongest civs are our neighbors. Yay! (not).
Berlin: Worker->Knight

1010 AD: Science lowered to 50% - Due in 12. I MM for food Disband 2 horse which I will try to rebuild.

IBT: Smith is started by French.

1020 AD: MM after growth back to size 12.

IBT: Smith is started by Mayans.

1030 AD: Unfortunately, one of those two Smith builds might Cascade to Shakespeares.

1040 AD:

IBT: We get another Crusader
Berlin: Knight->Worker (we will be at max again next turn).

1050 AD: MM town.

IBT: Maya declares war on Inca.

1060 AD: We lost another large chunk of change which will slow Free artistry even more. Annoying. I don't think wealth gives us enough to be worth switching to. I do get rid of the galley and a Trebuchet that we will have to rebuild. I also take Americas pitiful 12 gp - they are way behind in tech. MM town

IBT: Grow back again to size 12

1070 AD: I MM for gold to get Free Artistry in 7. I may even need to switch to wealth. I am trying to maintain 40% science. There is a 38 gpt outstanding deal that is no longer matched by incoming deals. Noone has gpt or gold to trade techs for.

1080 AD:

IBT: Knight->Wealth

1090 AD: I want to time switching to a courthouse to "prebuild" Shakespeares by a small amount. The courthouse should be in 1 when I get free artistry. Disband a Horse.

IBT: Build a Crusader

1100 AD: Disband a horse (Not in the town... starting prebuild and we can't build a wonder if I disband in town).
Courthouse in 5. Free artistry in 4 we have 34 gold and -9 gpt. There is some risk if someone demands gold from us.

IBT: The French start Shakespeares.

1110 AD: The only good news is that we get Free Artistry in 1. Not sure if we have a chance, but I am going to continue for now. MM for max shields.

IBT: Finish Free Artistry start Physics

1120 AD: Switch town to Shakespeares. The town of Cherborg is also building it. It is hard to tell if we or they will be faster. We have more shields and they have a discount. I think we are better. There is also the concern of a Cascade from Smiths. I think I will run Min science and build up some cash to see if I want to investigate the city. Mayans have Free artistry but are not yet building the wonder. This also means we can't trade FA for anything either. Set science to 0.

IBT: Mayans start up Shakespeares as well.

1030 AD: Ok I mined two grasslands putting us at -2 food. We can exchange food in our granary for shields by switching between mined and irrigated grassland. We are at +26 shields now and will have to drop down to 24 as we run out of food. Don't let us drop in size whatever you do.

IBT:

1040 AD:

IBT:

1050 AD:

Notes:
Shakespeares - The race is definitely on. We are at 26 shields for the next 10 turns and then have to drop to 24 for the final 3. Cherbourg is size 8 which I think means they cannot compete unless they have a GA. A second concern is one of the Smith builds cascading to shakespeares. Lyons has several mountains and the Mayans are building it in their capitol. I think we are ok there as they need to get to 600 (-20%) shields before building it while we only need 450 and we didn't start that long after they did.

All in all it will be close I am guessing we win by a turn or two.. We should discuss if we want to spend cash investigating a city or two. I feel Lyons/Chichen are the bigger threats as they started earliest.

This is obvious but: Make sure you don't let our capitol starve :D

An SGL may be the biggest risk.

If we fail to get Shakespeares then disband the two workers. If we do get it then merge them in and MM for growth.

Mayans are getting bigger. This may become a concern.
 
lurker's comment:

Actually, when running wealth, you should MM for shields. The amount of gold produced is spt/4 rounded down or spt/2 after you discover economics.

 
If we gain +1 gold with markets that is either 1 or 2 gold. This is equivalent to 4 to 8 shields (2 to 4 with economy). Wouldn't I always want to go for the gold? The shields can only win in the rarest of circumstances (It must make a difference of at least 3 shields vs 1 gold you have Economy and no bank and the rounding works out (1/4 the time?). If you have a bank too then the gold always ties or wins. Note that 6 shields vs 2 gold is alway a tie with markets and a loss if there is a bank.

I am not sure what part corruption would play - you would then have to see if the gold or shields are corrupted. This is the capitol though.

I usually don't MM to this level, it is simpler just to go for the gold. MMing more would only gain a gold piece.

----------------------------------------
The one case that you might want to MM for shields is if the science rate is very high and you need the gold badly. In that case you are generally sacrificing beakers for gold. This is still a net loss on beakers+gold though.
 
I see what you're saying. I was looking on the smaller scale, rather than the big picture, which shows that MMing for gold will give you more gold than MMing for shields and building wealth.
 
preturn: I don't know what to do. :) Since we are building a wonder, I don't think we want a war, although it would be good to extort some tech from France. Oh well..

(1)1160AD: I regenotiate incense deal with France and get furs+spices+23gpt.

(2)1170AD: America has one extra saltpeter! So I ship Chemistry to it for Saltpeter+WM+12g. Yeah we cannot really build units that use this resource, but I just want someone to get either Physics or Metallury so we can do a 2-fer.

I then give Chemistry to Rome and Inca for 4g too.

(3)1180AD: zzz

IBT we lose wines and we have to raise lux to 10.

(4)1190AD: zzz

(5)1200AD: Rome gets Democracy.

(6)1210AD: zzz

(7)1220AD: Inca now is an OCC on an island.

IBT Maya and Inca make peace.

(8)1230AD: zzz

(9)1240AD: We can get -1fpt and Shakespear still in 4 turns, but we only have 2 food reserve..

IBT Maya and France start Newtons. We cannot get it..

(10)1250AD: IBT Maya demands TM+74g, and I cave. :( Why is it furious with us?

(11)1255AD: We can stop starving and still get Shakespear in 2 turns!

(12)1260AD:

IBT We get Shakespear.

(13)1265AD: I merge two workers and we can build knights every 3 turns.

I try an immediate steal on France and we succeed by about 1066g. I pick Metallury because we'll need cannons and cavs. I then upgrade two trebs to cannons.

(14)1270AD: ZZZ

(15)1275AD: We need a discussion.

The easiest target is France. It isn't really selling us any resources, and its only saltpeter is close to us, so we'll be fighting leftover cavs. We can then try to push as far as possible and hopefully get 2 techs. But to do that we either need a lot of cannons, or get Military Tradition first, which we can research ourselves in 10 turns.

The problem with hitting France is that then Maya will be even stronger. So if we can make it, I'd prefer to ally with France against Maya. However, we then lose our horses and iron. France has an extra iron which we may be able to buy, but we really need horses.

Since Maya is bigger now, I expect we can get more gpt from it if we renegotiate the incense deal.
We are 320g making 130gpt.
 
So we did nab Shakespeares. Very cool!

I agree the decision on who to attack is tricky and something to discuss. I really think we need to hit the mayans with frances help. I have seen too many AI's get too far ahead to feel comfortable leaving them be.

However France has all 3 needed resources right outside our doorstep. Maybe a limited war with France and then Ally with them against the Mayans?

Keeping the resources free of towns will be another difficult issue.
 
The Maya appear to have musket for defense, but both them and France are in the IA. We are starting to lose ground and that is worrying. We are able to get Military Tradition and I think that we need it. Cavalry should be the unit to attack with imho.

The Maya are too big to ignore. I think that we have to build up a decent military, bite the bullit and go for the Maya, before they get steam and railroads everywhere. Taking the vital resources from France will make the Maya only stronger. We need France to help us vs the biggest foe of the planet.
 
Back
Top Bottom