AIG Executive Resigns

[FriendlyFire]

What could he have done to prevent AIGFP from blowing up AIG?

Basic accounting ?

 

[mrt144]

Basic accounting ?

But he wasn't part of the team doing CDS, merely in the same division, nor was he in a position to call that into question.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

I think I got the gist. Because he worked at the giant multinational AIG in a completely different location thousands of miles away, he's more responsible than Clinton, GWB, or any congressman who held office for the past 10 years.

What a hopeless straw man. But who cares about the facts, right? Burn the witches! They can float!

You're right, there is a "hopeless straw man" here. "[M]ore responsible than Clinton, GWB, or any other congressman?" Where does Taibbi (or anyone) say that? If you want to criticize what Taibbi wrote, at least criticize what Taibbi wrote.

I think there's a witch hunt witch hunt going on.

Cleo

 

[luiz]

I think there's a witch hunt witch hunt going on.

So the victims are the populist buffoons demanding blood?

 

[Mise]

"This is not the time to point fingers! Finger pointing helps no-one! ....Steve!"

 

[Shadylookin]

His company failed, got took over by the government. The government doesn't want to pay his bonus. Even if you take him at face value and presume he's innocent it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of people that don't even work for the financial sector that are hit hard by this but they got fired despite their complete innocence.

deserves got nothing to do with it

 

[Formaldehyde]

You're right, there is a "hopeless straw man" here. "[M]ore responsible than Clinton, GWB, or any other congressman?" Where does Taibbi (or anyone) say that? If you want to criticize what Taibbi wrote, at least criticize what Taibbi wrote.

I did address his use of invectives and lack of facts by citing one example already. Perhaps you missed it in your rush to try to claim I was generating a straw man, which was certainly not my intent:

There are plenty of unemployed traders out there whose resumes don't include such entries as "Worked for years at small unit of AIG that helped destroy the universe; throughout that time was completely ignorant of burgeoning global disaster unfolding 5 feet from my desk."

he worked at the giant multinational AIG in a completely different location thousands of miles away.

Taibbi is trying to cast blame on him for acts he didn't commit by using facts which don't exist instead of blaming the people who are really responsible for this: The presidents for the past 10 years and the congressmen during the same period.

And here's some more examples:

Only a person with a habitually overinflated sense of self-worth could think he deserves a $700,000 retention bonus.

It is not a retention bonus. He can quit at any time, which he has done.

even if it has to be paid by taxpayers,].

It is not being paid by the taxpayers. It is being paid from the bonus pool he created by performing his job above and beyond what was expected of him.

when in reality no one "deserves" that much money.

I think they certainly do when they generate far more for both the company, and consequently the US taxpayers since they now own 80% of this business.

It may be that some people do get paid that much, but most people who make that much money have enough sense to realize their cushy lifestyles are an accident of fate, of birth, of class, not something that is "supported" by some unwritten natural law of compensation.

Perhaps if you are a communist or even a socialist, but last I heard that's how capitalism works. And in other places, "cushy lifestyles" are "accidents of fate, of birth, of class", but that is not always the case in this country where literally anybody can become one of the most wealthy people on the planet through hard work and perseverance.

You and I have never met or spoken to each other, so I’d like to tell you about myself. I was raised by schoolteachers working multiple jobs in a world of closing steel mills. My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

Burn him! He can float! He's a witch!

 

[dutchfire]

His company failed, got took over by the government. The government doesn't want to pay his bonus. Even if you take him at face value and presume he's innocent it doesn't really matter. There are plenty of people that don't even work for the financial sector that are hit hard by this but they got fired despite their complete innocence.

deserves got nothing to do with it

He had a contract with the company, the company (/government) can't just declare his contract void because they're in hard times. If everyone who is being hit by this crisis just stops paying his contractual obligations, then that's the end of the economy as we know it.

 

[Shadylookin]

He had a contract with the company, the company (/government) can't just declare his contract void because they're in hard times. If everyone who is being hit by this crisis just stops paying his contractual obligations, then that's the end of the economy as we know it.

It's called bankruptcy. AIG basically tanked and is under new management I suppose it's not technically bankruptcy, but it's extreme circumstances.

I don't understand why anyone would cry a river for a senior level executive for the department that tried to destroy the whole world. If you took him out of his suit and tie and put him in some stupid costume he'd make a good cartoon supervillain.

 

[Cutlass]

I did address his use of invectives and lack of facts by citing one example already. Perhaps you missed it in your rush to try to claim I was generating a straw man, which was certainly not my intent:





Taibbi is trying to cast blame on him for acts he didn't commit by using facts which don't exist instead of blaming the people who are really responsible for this: The presidents for the past 10 years and the congressmen during the same period.

And here's some more examples:



It is not a retention bonus. He can quit at any time, which he has done.



It is not being paid by the taxpayers. It is being paid from the bonus pool he created by performing his job above and beyond what was expected of him.



I think they certainly do when they generate far more for both the company, and consequently the US taxpayers since they now own 80% of this business.



Perhaps if you are a communist or even a socialist, but last I heard that's how capitalism works. And in other places, "cushy lifestyles" are "accidents of fate, of birth, of class", but that is not always the case in this country where literally anybody can become one of the most wealthy people on the planet through hard work and perseverance.



Burn him! He can float! He's a witch!

Wait a second now... Are you actually claiming that the people who destroyed the universe are not responsible for destroying the universe?

 

[mrt144]

Wait a second now... Are you actually claiming that the people who destroyed the universe are not responsible for destroying the universe?

You don't blame Poseidon for what Hades did even if they all roll together in Olympus.

 

[I'm Cleo!]

He had a contract with the company, the company (/government) can't just declare his contract void because they're in hard times. If everyone who is being hit by this crisis just stops paying his contractual obligations, then that's the end of the economy as we know it.

This happens all the time. When a company goes out of business, it stops paying its contractual obligations. Contracts are always modified because of "change of circumstances."

Seriously, Contract Law was the most surprising class I took in law school. Contracts simply aren't what laypersons think they are.

Cleo

 

[Mise]

This happens all the time. When a company goes out of business, it stops paying its contractual obligations. Contracts are always modified because of "change of circumstances."

Seriously, Contract Law was the most surprising class I took in law school. Contracts simply aren't what laypersons think they are.

Cleo

It didn't go out of business; the government decided that it didn't want AIG to go out of business, nor to stop contractual payments, so it injected capital and took a large equity share. Just because it's the government taking an equity share doesn't make it any different from any private investor taking an equity share. The government went to great pains to avoid "nationalisation" -- and it still hasn't used that word. Until it does, AIG operates under the same rules as any other solvent, adequately capitalised insurance company.

 

[JollyRoger]

Just because it's the government taking an equity share doesn't make it any different from any private investor taking an equity share.

Right. Contract busting is common when a private player takes a significant equity share. Welcome aboard.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wait a second now... Are you actually claiming that the people who destroyed the universe are not responsible for destroying the universe?

Not at all. I am blaming the people actually responsible instead of the scapegoats like you apparently are. That point should be rather obvious by my frequent posts on this subject by now.

 

[Mise]

Right. Contract busting is common when a private player takes a significant equity share. Welcome aboard.

What a nebulous statement. Huh.

 

[Mark1031]

First off I in no way think this guy is responsible for the financial meltdown of AIG or anyone else. That said, his company is bankrupt and if the world was not held hostage by the size and interconnectedness of this company he would have neither a bonus or a job. It happens to many people in the “real world” who also “work hard” and fall on hard times through no fault of their own.

The real problem I have is the sense of entitlement of these high end financial guys exemplified in these statements:

My hard work earned me acceptance to M.I.T., and the institute’s generous financial aid enabled me to attend. I had fulfilled my American dream.

I started at this company in 1998 as an equity trader, became the head of equity and commodity trading and, a couple of years before A.I.G.’s meltdown last September, was named the head of business development for commodities. Over this period the equity and commodity units were consistently profitable — in most years generating net profits of well over $100 million.

The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation.

On March 16 I received a payment from A.I.G. amounting to $742,006.40, after taxes.

What is he saying? He is saying that because he went to MIT and works hard he deserves $1.5 million in compensation/yr. Even though his company is bankrupt. In most years his unit generated 100 million and he should get %1.5 of that. Did he start AIG? Did he start that unit? Is he the founder of the US and world economic engine that supports that kind of cash flow and profit? No, he is a cog (I’m sure a very competent cog) in a system in which if you sit at certain positions Billions of dollars flow through and you convince yourself that you deserve millions for occupying that position. That is the point I do not accept. The compensation in these positions is not justified whether the company is profitable or not.

 

[JollyRoger]

At least he doesn't make $77 an hour like some UAW thug.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The compensation in these positions is not justified whether the company is profitable or not.

So, you are taking umbrage with every big-deal salesman in the world today who works on commission? Good luck with that...

 

[Mark1031]

So, you are taking umbrage with every big-deal salesman in the world today who works on commission? Good luck with that...

I do not tak umbrage at commissions. I simply state that IMO the commissions in this field are too high due to corrupt executive compensation committees and that the view of the skill set of these people is overblown.