AIG Executive Resigns

[Cutlass]

Not at all. I am blaming the people actually responsible instead of the scapegoats like you apparently are. That point should be rather obvious by my frequent posts on this subject by now.

Let me clarify. The politicians unlocked a door. The finance companies opened the door, went through it, and vandalized what was on the other side. So does the blame rest with the ones who unlocked the door, ore with the vandals?

 

[Mise]

I agree that AIG executives are quite to blame for AIG's failure, that seems to go without saying. However, it's one thing to apportion blame, but quite another to determine punishment. By demanding repayment of bonuses, or by taxing those bonuses above others', we allow the Government to become judge, jury and executioner. I don't know what kind of society you want to live in, but I am rather against the government being granted such arbitrary power.

It bodes well for my argument, though perhaps not for democracy, that I have yet to hear of any civil lawsuit or criminal charges being brought against any AIG executive.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Let me clarify. The politicians unlocked a door.

Yes.

The finance companies opened the door, went through it, and vandalized what was on the other side.

A select few, typically working in in small subsidiaries of much larger companies, did. Yes.

So does the blame rest with the ones who unlocked the door, ore with the vandals?

Both. But you are trying to blame the people whose only fault was working for the same company.

If the CEO and a handful of other people of the company you worked for helped cause an international crisis due to their incompetence and greed, and which they apparently violated no laws due to the direct acts of the above politicians, would you expect to be punished as a result?

 

[I'm Cleo!]

It didn't go out of business; the government decided that it didn't want AIG to go out of business, nor to stop contractual payments, so it injected capital and took a large equity share. Just because it's the government taking an equity share doesn't make it any different from any private investor taking an equity share. The government went to great pains to avoid "nationalisation" -- and it still hasn't used that word. Until it does, AIG operates under the same rules as any other solvent, adequately capitalised insurance company.

Yes, and those same rules allow for changed circumstances to change the terms of the contract. Like what happens every day in courts all over the world.

Cleo

 

[dutchfire]

Yes, and those same rules allow for changed circumstances to change the terms of the contract. Like what happens every day in courts all over the world.

Cleo

Except in this case, the government decided, not the courts. Well, I guess separation of powers is an obsolete concept when it's about bankers?

 

[Mise]

Yes, and those same rules allow for changed circumstances to change the terms of the contract. Like what happens every day in courts all over the world.

Cleo

As I understand it, the government had a chance to change the terms of those contracts during the equity negotiations, but did not.

 

[JollyRoger]

As I understand it, the government had a chance to change the terms of those contracts during the equity negotiations, but did not.

And they also had the chance to apply pressure after the fact, which they did.

 

[Mise]

And they also had the chance to apply pressure after the fact, which they did.

If by "apply pressure" you mean "demonise and use as scapegoats" then yes, that's exactly what they did.

 

[JollyRoger]

If by "apply pressure" you mean "demonise and use as scapegoats" then yes, that's exactly what they did.

Got to be able to stand up to that if you want to keep the big bucks. If you fold, then it is on you. They didn't even get waterboarded.

 

[Mise]

We should demand they wear their pants on their heads.

 

[JollyRoger]

If they are easy to pressure, why not? Might as well get some entertainment for our money.

 

[innonimatu]

If they are easy to pressure, why not? Might as well get some entertainment for our money.

Especially as that's all you're likely to ever get for the money ....

 

[Mise]

Stop guys, you're making me horny Oh yeah baby, humiliate those execs, oohhhh yeahhhh... HARDER!!!

 

[crabapple]

We should use medieval punishment on them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering

 

[Mise]

We should use medieval punishment on them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarring_and_feathering

Oh god don't stop!!

 

[EnglishEdward]

I can remember during the Bob Maxwell scandal that the
press started to refer to his executives as SS officers.

Becaue they kept claiming that they did not know about
the crimes and that they were only following orders.

 

[Cutlass]

Yes.



A select few, typically working in in small subsidiaries of much larger companies, did. Yes.



Both. But you are trying to blame the people whose only fault was working for the same company.

If the CEO and a handful of other people of the company you worked for helped cause an international crisis due to their incompetence and greed, and which they apparently violated no laws due to the direct acts of the above politicians, would you expect to be punished as a result?

Can the company pay those bonuses without taking government money? No? Well then they're screwed. Let them sue the CEO who blew their bonuses, not the government.

It is OUR MONEY, and they have not earned it.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Congress Wants AIG Mole's Documents

Members of Congress are pushing for access to confidential reports filed over the past several years by a government-appointed auditor who has been sitting in on AIG deliberations.

The auditor, whose presence was first reported by the Wall Street Journal, was installed as the result of a settlement that deferred prosecution of AIG for allegedly helping financial institutions fudge their books. Deferring prosecution was the Bush administration's preference when it came to enforcing financial regulations.

"Whatever rationale there may have been for confidentiality doesn't appear to apply anymore," Rep. Brad Miller (D-N.C.) told the Huffington Post. "If the idea was that having a government appointed lawyer sitting in the board room would make sure that AIG went forth and sinned no more, it obviously didn't work out that way."

The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee has requested documents.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/03/31/congress-wants-aig-monito_n_181449.html

WTH ?

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is OUR MONEY, and they have not earned it.

No, it is THEIR MONEY, and they have clearly EARNED IT.

Dear AIG: We <3 you!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/12/AR2009041202703.html?hpid=topnews

Rebecca Chapman teaches a daily economics lesson to her fourth-graders at a public elementary school near Houston. She assigns them jobs -- pencil guard, errand runner, class sheriff. She lets them run small businesses -- cubby cleaning, baked goods -- and make purchases with fake money. She even taxes the profits.

On March 25, the lesson was a little different. She turned that day to the issue that had captivated and infuriated Americans: the millions in retention bonuses paid to employees at AIG Financial Products, the unit whose risky deals had wrecked giant insurer American International Group.

Chapman stood before her students and stoked the populism in their young souls. Pretend you are taxpayers, she said. Now, think about AIG paying bonuses even after the government had committed $180 billion to bailing it out.

"Can you believe it?" she asked.

The children hissed and moaned, sounding much like the elected officials and talking heads who had been eager to out-outrage one another.

"I got them all riled up," said Chapman, 29.

Then she turned the tables.

"What if you were an AIG employee?" she asked. Imagine if you had not been involved in the deals that ruined the company but were left to clean up the mess. What if you had to pay back money you felt you had earned? What if your family had received death threats?

One boy raised his hand.

"Can we write them and let them know that it's going to be okay?" asked the boy, who clearly doesn't have a 401(k).

Empathy is fleeting in fourth-graders, so the teacher embraced it. She broke out crayons and paper.

The children adorned their messages with peace symbols and smiley faces, rainbows and vivid red hearts. "Hi AIG. Not all of USA hates you," wrote one student. "We know you're not villains," wrote another. "Keep working hard, dudes! Keep eating your vegatabos!" advised a third.

Chapman mailed the nearly 30 cards from her school to the outcasts of the financial world at AIG. (She requested that The Washington Post not identify the school, worried that the gesture might attract some of the ugly phone calls and threats that have been visited upon AIG.)

"I hope this package doesn't arrive on April Fool's Day," she wrote, "because this really isn't a joke."

The cards now hang in the lunchrooms at the firm's offices in Connecticut and London.

"There were more than a few moist eyes and tight throats," employee Patrick O'Neill wrote back to the class. "To have reached out to us in such a heartfelt way is really a testament to your individual and collective humanity."

Gerry Pasciucco, the current leader of AIG-FP, also wrote to say that the gesture had deeply touched his battered staff. He signed off with a simple message:

"Fourth graders rule!"

 

[Neomega]

Children being used as empathy devices to create good PR for a filthy system. Almost as pathetic as a whining millionaire executive quitting because of his fear of public anger.