Airliner shot down over disputed part of Ukraine

[Timsup2nothin]

But I am particularly interested in the voice recorder data. Info like that used to give a whole lot of information on what happened in Kaczyński's plane incident in 2010 for instance, and also in several other plane crashes investigations here.

The recorder was passed for decrypting about a month ago, and was reportedly intact at that moment, so there should have been no problem with data extracting and analyzing. The fact that not a single official word has been uttered ever since leaves lots of room for a vast variety of answers to why.

For instance, I would do with an official statement that the data extracted and analyzed does not make the case any clearer, but there's no such a statement. It looks like after a lengthy and hot-boiling discussion no who will investigate they took the recorders, compiled the investigation team to analyze the data and then experienced acute amnesia attack causing them to forget about it

It would be nice to get a 'nothing of use' statement, but investigators often aren't inclined to keep saying 'nothing...still nothing...okay, still nothing' as they go along. They tend not to grasp that the high profile of the case does make a difference and make that necessary, or at least desirable.

And it seems pretty likely that the voice recorder in this case has nothing useful on it. If the plane got hit by a missile the voice recorder is a totally mundane record of nothing out of the ordinary that comes to an abrupt end without anyone even having time to say 'what the heck?'...and structural evidence already collected makes 'hit by a missile' pretty much an established fact.

That would be totally different than the 2010 incident where the flight had issues the entire time that eventually piled up into the conditions that caused the crash. The voice recorder in that case really provided the picture of how the problems developed throughout the flight, because the pilots were trying to deal with them (well, to a great extent the pilots were the problems, or at least well represented among them).

 

[Agent327]

Some actual news today:

Major G. Smit with the Dutch Koninklijke Marechausee (royal military police, roughly) estimates that a further 1-2 days of repatriation would be necessary for flight MH17. As opposed to what was said earlier the search area comprises some 96 square km, a large part of which has been actually searched.

The return of the first physical remains of Malaysian passengers to Malaysia coincides with a day of national mourning. The ceremony accompanying the arrival was attended by king Abdul Halim Mu’adzam Shah and prime minister Najib Razak, according to AFP.

So far 28 out of 43 Malaysian passengers have been identified.

As per the black box it seems indeed unlikely this will give any useful information beyond what's already known: there was a sudden incident resulting in the break-off of communication with the plane; there was no call for assistance or anything indicating what actually happened to the plane prior to this.

 

[Daw]

THE HAGUE, September 02. /ITAR-TASS/. A preliminary report on the cause of the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over the embattled eastern Ukraine is almost ready, Dutch Safety Board spokesperson Sara Vernooij told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday.

The report will be ready either at the end of the week or early next week, she said.

Waiting...

 

[Agent327]

Yes. I didn't post any news on this. It seems Dutch forensics are overwhelmed by the victim identification of 298 casualties. In the sense that other work is getting delayed. Glad to hear TASS is on its qui vive.

 

[Daw]

Exact date known:

THE HAGUE, September 04. /ITAR-TASS/. Preliminary results of the Malaysian Boeing crash in eastern Ukraine will be published on September 9, the Dutch security council said on Thursday.(c)

 

[Akka]

I'm disappointed they didn't make it the 11 september.

 

[Daw]

Well, the Dutch are probably polite enough not to provide unnecessary allusions. And they've proven to respect the dead much enough not to score political points over them. Both points characterize them as people of honor, dignity and justice.

The situation is bad enough as it is by itself, there's no point in aggravating it.

 

[kochman]

Well, the Dutch are probably polite enough not to provide unnecessary allusions.

If only we could expect the same from Russia...

 

[Agent327]

In terms of military spending they are immanently forgettable. With an estimated defense spending having recently undergone a 'massive increase' to reach 2% of GDP they are among the most peaceful countries on earth, if you consider where their money is. Introducing them in a discussion about military spending indicates more about you than it does about them.

Yes, but military spending wasn't the issue: size of military was.

Anywho, looks like the BBC has some news on the shootdown:

MH17 shoot-down suspects 'were Russian' claim eyewitnesses

6 hours ago

The crew of the BUK missile launcher suspected of shooting down the Malaysian Airways passenger jet MH17 on 17 July were Russian soldiers, according to eyewitnesses interviewed by BBC Panorama.

Reporter John Sweeney told the Today programme that three eyewitnesses separately told the programme that they saw the BUK in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit. He added that one eyewitness said that the BUK's crew "spoke with Moscow accents".

See the full story on BBC Panorama: Putin's Gamble, BBC One, 8.30 BST, Monday 8 September.

First broadcast on BBC Radio 4's Today programme on Monday 8 September.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29108454

 

[calad]

Well soon those eyewitnesses are burried.

 

[Yeekim]

Well soon those eyewitnesses are burried.

...right next to the shooters, possibly.

 

[Daw]

Spoiler :

He added that one eyewitness said that the BUK's crew "spoke with Moscow accents".

I might also add that the guy also has exceptionally tuned ears, because I myself find it hard to tell which part of Russia someone I hear comes from based on the speech. For instance, Kransnoyarsk or Samara speech is indistinguishable from Moscow one to me.

Anyway... The report was promised for the 09-Sep, and today is 09-Sep. I'm standing by.

 

[brennan]

BBC News: MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane

Dutch experts say Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high velocity".

A report released by the Dutch Safety Board said there was "no evidence of technical or human error".

Shrapnel from a near miss by missile will almost certainly be the majority verdict.

 

[Daw]

And that's it? After about 2 months? What took them so long?

 

[Agent327]

The preliminary report from the Dutch team said MH17 broke up in mid-air after being hit by "numerous objects" that "pierced the plane at high velocity" from outside the cabin and above the level of the cockpit floor.

In full on BBC news: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28357880

What took them so long? Interesting question. Research on the ground in Eastern Ukraine was limited by continued fighting in the area. The debris was scattered over a 2km radius area. The so-called black boxes were initially not available. Thorough research of all data takes time. This is a preliminary report into what technically caused the crash.

That said Ukrainian cooperation, including the rebels, has been as good as could be expected under the circumstances. Identification of all bodily remains (repatriation of all of which too over 1 week) has, as far as I know, been concluded, giving all surviving relatives the possibility of closure.

 

[Cutlass]

That's kind of how a SAM works. Actually scoring a hit is both much harder, and really not necessary. So they have proximity fuses.

 

[Akka]

Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'

From the article :

"Three eyewitnesses, all civilians, separately told Panorama that they saw a missile-launcher in rebel-held territory a few hours before the Boeing jet was hit.

[...]

The eyewitness told the BBC that the crew struck him as Russian soldiers: "Well-disciplined, unlike the rebels, and not wearing the standard Ukrainian camouflage uniform sported by government and rebel troops alike."

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

In eastern Ukraine, most people speak Russian but the BUK crew did not speak Russian with a local accent.

His testimony was confirmed by a second eyewitness, who added that an officer in a military jeep escorting the BUK spoke with a Muscovite accent."

Of course it won't convince anyone who wants to not be convinced, but it's just yet another evidence that will be dismissed but still exists, of the Russian involvement in Ukraine.

 

[Daw]

"They had pure Russian accents. They say the letter 'g' differently to us," he said.

Yep. Oleg Tyagnibok also says letter 'g' differently to them (0:12). Clearly, he's a Muskovite.

Edit: I'm having an error message for the video. Is it playable for others? Fixed. Thanks.

 

[red_elk]

Edit: I'm having an error message for the video. Is it playable for others?

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If you need to refer to specific time in video, just insert link without embedding.

 

[red_elk]

So, preliminary report gives very little additional information. Still zero evidence of rebels or anybody else's involvement. I was hoping that they determine at least type of missile.