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Airliner shot down over disputed part of Ukraine

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Jul 17, 2014.

  1. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    I don't think any evidence would be sufficient for some people.
    Quite an extensive explenation of their findings, thanks for posting.
     
  2. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    As well as for some other people, anything would qualify as a sufficient evidence.
     
  3. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Evidence is not the same as proof.

    There's lots of evidence, not none as you claimed.
     
  4. peter grimes

    peter grimes ... Moderator

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    To be fair, what proof would require a conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt that it was Russian soldiers and not Ukrainian separatists that downed the plane? Even if there's a chemical signature that unambiguously shows it was a Russian-made SAM, that doesn't say anything about the guys that did it, right?
     
  5. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Two months is very fast.

    Gather pieces of airplane scattered over large crash field.

    Put pieces together like giant three dimensional jigsaw puzzle.

    Run analysis on numerous pieces to determine whether damage came from incident source or hitting the ground. Theorize, test, theorize, test, theorize some more.

    Frequently it takes a year or more to get a final conclusive report out of a crash analysis.
     
  6. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    No proof is required. Russia is the source of all evil in Europe. Just ask the rest of Europe, they'll tell you.
     
  7. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    The final report is indeed expected in 1 year's time.
     
  8. Domen

    Domen Misico dux Vandalorum

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    Wut ???
     
  9. Rashiminos

    Rashiminos Fool Prophet

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony
     
  10. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    Which is why
    Is more telling. Not conclusive of course. "Cast doubt" is a correct description.

    Why would the Kremlin suggest a missile from a Ukranian figther jet? What's their evidence for that?
     
  11. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    None. The German secret service agency already debunked this in a typically thorough analysis of all available data as presented to the Bundestag/parliament. Also, since the rebels areknown to have shot down several Ukrainian planes both before and after the incident, the denial to have one (or more) Buk system makes little sense.
     
  12. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    It's good that they are not a party invested in actually 'debunking' any pro-Russian claim, right?

    Right. Reminds me of the equally important MI-6 report on Saddam having WMDs, and so Blair can sell the war ;)
     
  13. Tolina

    Tolina trust the pillars with your s e c r e t s

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    "we have just received info that pro-Ukrainian forces have developed a weaponized version of Ebola"

    Bam, 100 million views. You don't have to thank me, Daily Mail!
     
  14. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Wrong. If you were actually following the news, you might have noticed the BND also debunked Ukranian claims the Russians shot down the plane. But who cares about such details, right? Right.

    Also, it wasn't Blair selling a war, but Blair being Bush's puppy dog. Damn, these facts can be so annoying to people with views, right? Right.

    Also, 4 victims were Germans, while the majority were Dutch. So the Dutch investigation must also obviously be biased, right? I guess you also missed the preliminary report on the cause of what brought down flight MH17. Thanks so much for your concern.
     
  15. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Finally some news concerning the official investigation into the downing of flight MH17:

    Full article (including video footage) here: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/04/01...zed-on-tape-by-dutch-investigation-team-mh17/
     
  16. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Flight MH17: Four suspects charged with murder are named

    Almost 300 people died when Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down above eastern Ukraine on 17 July 2014.



    Key points

    • Investigators giving update on probe into downing of Flight MH17
    • Four suspects - three Russian, one Ukrainian - to be charged with murder
    • Criminal case against suspects to begin in March 2020
    • The Malaysia Airlines plane went down over eastern Ukraine in July 2014
    • All 298 passengers and crew were killed
    • Investigators say plane was downed by a Buk missile fired from eastern Ukraine
    • What do we know so far? Click here


    https://news.sky.com/story/mh17-cra...ur-with-murder-over-downing-of-plane-11744648
     
  17. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Ironically, the offical Russian response was that the whole investigation has been biased, intending to find Russian guilt from the start. I guess that's slightly better than the Fake News reports coming out on the incident since the plane was shot down. Even more ironic that the initial findings were in fact supported by the Russian members of the Joint Investigation Team, who then changed their tune, saying their initial findings were 'a hypothesis'. Since then, of course, all Russian cooperation with the investigation ceased.
     
  18. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    Ukrain and Russia are in the process to exchange prisoners.
    Alway good in de-escalating... right ?

    But one of the prisoners to be handed over to Russia is an essential witness for the MH-17 process



    It is always good to know who you can trust... right ?

    Ukrain is I guess not one of them
     
  19. plarq

    plarq Crazy forever

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    Now that is interesting.
     
  20. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    I am guessing they've already got all of the witness statements and information out of him that they can get. And it's not like Russia is ever going to acknowledge any wrongdoing or involvement so it probably won't hurt anything to turn him over at this point.
     

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