Alan Dershowitz on MSNBC

[onejayhawk]

You're only taking this position because you like the President. You supported the blowjob impeachment, so obviously you agree with me when the President is a Democrat. But sadly what I'm saying is true regardless of the party of the President.

Is your position that because something was true under a Democrat President, Bill Clinton, it is sadly true under a Republican President, Donald Trump. If so, I agree minus the sadly. If that is not what you meant, then your meaning is unclear.

J

 

[Lexicus]

Is your position that because something was true under a Democrat President, Bill Clinton, it is sadly true under a Republican President, Donald Trump. If so, I agree minus the sadly. If that is not what you meant, then your meaning is unclear.

I mean, I'm not expressing an opinion on whether it is "sad" or not. It is simply a matter of fact that Congress can impeach the President for basically any reason. You can Alan Dershowitz can complain that it's illegitimate because there are no actual crimes but it doesn't matter because neither of you are in Congress.

 

[onejayhawk]

I mean, I'm not expressing an opinion on whether it is "sad" or not. It is simply a matter of fact that Congress can impeach the President for basically any reason. You can Alan Dershowitz can complain that it's illegitimate because there are no actual crimes but it doesn't matter because neither of you are in Congress.

I am still not clear. If you are saying that Congress can impeach for any reason, that is not true. The expression "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not meaningless and it has a history, which enlarges the intent. If you are saying that the President's conduct does not need to break any existing law, I can agree.

The history of "high crimes and misdemeanors" refers to abuse of authority. The offensive act could be specific to the position, hence no law since no one else would be capable. If you want a specific, refusing to leave office at the end of term would qualify. The Obama administration was in that area when they initiated spying on Trump's campaign.

J

 

[Lexicus]

I am still not clear. If you are saying that Congress can impeach for any reason, that is not true.

Again, your opinion that Congress can't impeach for any reason does not mean it can't. There is no authority which can prevent Congress from impeaching the President for any reason, because the Constitution gives the House the "sole Power of Impeachment."
And as demonstrated by the fact that the House did, in fact, impeach Bill Clinton for getting a blowjob, the President can be impeached for any reason or none, and you fully agree with that, you're only pretending to take this position now because you're afraid of Dear Leader Trump being impeached.

 

[onejayhawk]

Bill Clinton was impeached for the coverup.

Have you ever read the list of actions? These were the items that passed the House:

Article I charged that Clinton lied to the grand jury concerning:

1. the nature and details of his relationship with Lewinsky
2. prior false statements he made in the Jones deposition
3. prior false statements he allowed his lawyer to make characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
4. his attempts to tamper with witnesses

Article III charged Clinton with attempting to obstruct justice in the Jones case by:

1. encouraging Lewinsky to file a false affidavit
2. encouraging Lewinsky to give false testimony if and when she was called to testify
3. concealing gifts he had given to Lewinsky that had been subpoenaed
4. attempting to secure a job for Lewinsky to influence her testimony
5. permitting his lawyer to make false statements characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
6. attempting to tamper with the possible testimony of his secretary Betty Curie
7. making false and misleading statements to potential grand jury witnesses

J

 

[Berzerker]

Bill Clinton wasn't impeached for getting oral sex

 

[Gori the Grey]

Bill Clinton was impeached for the coverup.

Have you ever read the list of actions? These were the items that passed the House:

Article I charged that Clinton lied to the grand jury concerning:

1. the nature and details of his relationship with Lewinsky
2. prior false statements he made in the Jones deposition
3. prior false statements he allowed his lawyer to make characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
4. his attempts to tamper with witnesses

Article III charged Clinton with attempting to obstruct justice in the Jones case by:

1. encouraging Lewinsky to file a false affidavit
2. encouraging Lewinsky to give false testimony if and when she was called to testify
3. concealing gifts he had given to Lewinsky that had been subpoenaed
4. attempting to secure a job for Lewinsky to influence her testimony
5. permitting his lawyer to make false statements characterizing Lewinsky's affidavit
6. attempting to tamper with the possible testimony of his secretary Betty Curie
7. making false and misleading statements to potential grand jury witnesses

J

Well, it's good to know that you regard attempting to obstruct justice as an impeachment-worthy offence.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Bill Clinton was impeached for the coverup.J

Or as Republicans call it "Prejury trap"
Thats why when 3000 Americans were killed they never put G,W,Bush under oath or testify in public

Is your position that because something was true under a Democrat President, Bill Clinton, it is sadly true under a Republican President, Donald Trump. If so, I agree minus the sadly. If that is not what you meant, then your meaning is unclear. J

Because you have no problem with the six year Ken Starr investigation into Bill Clinton
Yet parioting Hannity talking points about shutting down the Mueller probe after just 1 year and mutiple indictments.

The President Attorney got raided by the FBI, and we learn about secret phone call recordings as well as millions in payments for access to Trump. Trumps campaign manager defrauded a veterans bank, in exchange for Trump administration position, Trumps Security advisor held secret meeting with Russians, If this was Clinton you would be screaming LOCK HER UP. ... oh wait

 

[onejayhawk]

Well, it's good to know that you regard attempting to obstruct justice as an impeachment-worthy offence.

Sure. What that has to do with Mueller is a mystery.

Or as Republicans call it "Prejury trap"
Thats why when 3000 Americans were killed they never put G,W,Bush under oath or testify in public

Try reading them once, then reply.

Because you have no problem with the six year Ken Starr investigation into Bill Clinton. Yet parioting Hannity talking points about shutting down the Mueller probe after just 1 year and mutiple indictments. The President Attorney got raided by the FBI, and we learn about secret phone call recordings as well as millions in payments for access to Trump. Trumps campaign manager defrauded a veterans bank, in exchange for Trump administration position, Trumps Security advisor held secret meeting with Russians, If this was Clinton you would be screaming LOCK HER UP. ... oh wait

Now you are just spouting talking points with no relation to facts. Since you raise Hillary Clinton, the FBI did not raid her office. Computer records and electronic devices were not siezed. Curious non-symmetry.

J

 

[Berzerker]

I keep hearing from media that Trump cant accept something of value from a foreign entity, thats a campaign finance violation. He didn't... Hilary did that, she got something of value from a foreign investigator. She apparently even paid for it... If Mueller doesn't get Trump for financial crimes I'll be amazed, but obstruction of justice is on the horizon.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Sure. What that has to do with Mueller is a mystery.Try reading them once, then reply.
Now you are just spouting talking points with no relation to facts. Since you raise Hillary Clinton, the FBI did not raid her office. Computer records and electronic devices were not siezed. Curious non-symmetry. J

Clearly it was a Deep state cover up, Thankfully a Trump Republican appointed DOJ and Trump Republican appointed FBI director and Republican controlled Congress will get onto that straight away !

 

[Lexicus]

Bill Clinton was impeached for the coverup.

Yes, this has been my point all along, you support the Clinton impeachment, you agree with me that the President can be impeached for basically no reason.

 

[Berzerker]

He was sued for sexual harassment by one of his victims and lied under oath. Thats not basically no reason. The reason why Trump's avoiding Mueller's interrogation is because he could face impeachment if he lies.

 

[onejayhawk]

Yes, this has been my point all along, you support the Clinton impeachment, you agree with me that the President can be impeached for basically no reason.

I said what I meant, which is that Bill Clinton was impeasched for valid reason. There was a list of stories earlier this year about how he should have resigned because of what he did.

Clearly it was a Deep state cover up, Thankfully a Trump Republican appointed DOJ and Trump Republican appointed FBI director and Republican controlled Congress will get onto that straight away !

Quite right except for some quibbles. Why don't you believe it?

J

 

[FriendlyFire]

He was sued for sexual harassment by one of his victims and lied under oath. Thats not basically no reason. The reason why Trump's avoiding Mueller's interrogation is because he could face impeachment if he lies.

Except Mueller is investigating if Trump obstructed Justice with the Firing of Comeny to shut down the FBI investigation into Flynn
Trump basically Tricked Roseinstein into writing the memo which was used to fire Comney
Rosenstein told everyone he had been "used" by the President whom was searching for a way to shut down the FBI investigation

Classic Narcissist

 

[Berzerker]

Trump's the epitome of the ugly American

That image of him pushing the Prez of Montenegro (?) out of the way to get in front of the camera as he held his chin up high was despicable, laughable, and embarrassing.

 

[onejayhawk]

Except Mueller is investigating if Trump obstructed Justice with the Firing of Comeny to shut down the FBI investigation into Flynn
Trump basically Tricked Roseinstein into writing the memo which was used to fire Comney
Rosenstein told everyone he had been "used" by the President whom was searching for a way to shut down the FBI investigation

Classic Narcissist

I'm curious about the narcissist comment. Who is it in this case? Comeny certainly fits but it is not clear in the context. Did you mean Mueller? Rosenstein?

J

 

[FriendlyFire]

Quite right. Why don't you believe it? J

Mexico will pay for the Wall
Healthcare for everyone that will be so easy
Trade wars are good and easy to win
Tariffs are terrific
Coal Jobs will be coming back so fast
Global warming is a hoax by China

Why dont YOU Believe it ?
Occam Razor, J either either Trump is lying narcissist, or there is a Deep state swamp where the Russians, FBI conspired with the Clinton and Democrats to lose the election.

 

[Berzerker]

Trump's the poster child of narcissism... I cant think of anyone running a close 2nd to him

 

[onejayhawk]

Trump's the poster child of narcissism... I cant think of anyone running a close 2nd to him

Two of the previous three Presidents and Bush had Cheney to do it. I think narcissism is a job requirement.

In any event, Comey is probably as narcissistic as Trump. It's a close call.

J