ALC Game 17: Russia/Peter

If another city is founded it has to be the fur city. I'm concerned about the delay this will bring however. I'd suggest chopping the settler if going this route and maybe a worker too.

Speed is of the essence in this axerush. I can't stress enough that three gems + marble means all kinds of badness coming off the oracle potentially.
 
All we absolutely need after Mysticism is Fishing. Pottery would be a big help, but it might be too long to wait. If you can put a city down and chop a monument, you'll have fifteen turns anyway to get a border pop, so having fishing take fifteenish turns is okay as we can chop (most of) the boat.

I'd recommend halting the settler for now (another unit is another unit cost), at least til about 2-5 turns away from when Mysticism is done. Until then, work max food and put your hammers into barracks. Once you get up to max pop switch to a worker and then another settler. Best case scenario you whip the barracks for 2 pop and spill into axemen. Although with the cow you might have too many hammers. If that's the case Moscow can turn into a pretty solid production city at 5 pop working the cow, mines and a forest at stagnant growth until the barracks is done, and then.

Workerwise:
The one on bronze can stay at St. Pete and develope it but the other one, after the highway's complete should come back and prep the wheat. Wheat needs a road and a prechopped forrest and I think the timing's just about perfect with the waiting for Mysticism thing. If not, I think you can chop the forrest down to one turn and then have him build a mine. It will say 11 turns for the mine but once you stop and finish the chop you'll only have 2 turns or whatever left on the mine (I've never tried this, I might be full of it). After that, Moscow needs two more mines and maybe one more farm. And, there's the road up to deer.

Micromanagement on whipping:
Granary or not Moscow's gonna be whipping Axemen, and it needs to do it for two pop. (with the food power present, and the need to rush Ragnar it has to be done). The key to doing this is to make sure the overflow + the hammers worked on the first turn are 6 :hammers: or less. With all those mines you'll have that means you'll be working the floodplains, farm or no farm. What I'd do is after a whip, go max food until 1 turn from unhappy. You can always pause and go stagnant growth working cow, mines and plains forest. Once it's okay to whip finish and axeman keeping close eye on overflow. Getting an overflow of 3 :hammers: or ending up at 55/52 on the axeman is the most you'll want to do as the next turn you'll want to work the cow and max food for 3 more :hammers: to stay within the 6 :hammers: or less, allowing you to whip the 2 pop. Even if you end up whipping every 17 or 19 turns it's okay, the production comes from the 2 pop (but because of Moscow's ability to grow so fast). So... you'll need to micromanage the turn or two up to the completion of an axeman and the turn right after. With all those mines the numbers might not always come out just perfect and because the mines are the only tiles that slow your growth down (i.e., 1 :food: tiles), you'll have to work your non hammer tiles (floodplains) which will put you into unhappiness. This will be okay; a turn or two in unhappiness will be worth the ability to churn out axemen this quick. An alternate way to control the population would be to hire them as scientists for a turn or two while all this happens. Of course, that would take a whipped library and slow down the rush but hey, whatever you wanna do. (and sorry for that block paragraph rant; i'd tried my best to be clear :mischief: )

So yeah, I vote for the wheat. Deer takes a road, eight turns for a deer camp, 8 turns for a fur camp, growth to pop 2; it's really not gonna be any immediate help anyway, which is okay (repeating my first paragraph) all we need is Myst and Fishing. And, the wheat is more needing of a border pop anyway (where deer isn't), so might as well get it out sooner. Although, deer will be a help, get it out soon (and crash the economy even more after Fishing/mostofPottery). A perfect situation would be be deer turning over to pop 2 onto a fur camp while your army's leaving for Nidaros, but that's a little too much to ask. ;)
 
If you're still planning an axerush against Raggy then it's gotta be wheat/cows. You'll eventually have 3 cities capable of whipping out axemen, and 3xfur won't be connected to the copper for a long time. I do like the idea of delaying the settler until Mysticism's almost done (so the new city can start on a monument right away) but I'd work on a library before the barracks. And Moscow should grow to at least size 5 before you whip the city again anyway. :nono: :p

And don't worry about Raggy taking Feudalism off the Oracle...it's unlikely, and if it does happen, we are well and truly boned anyway.
 
Im not sure i get all of what Slaze says either.:confused:

For sure, agree on the fur city issue. Its not that it wont help produce alone, it will need qute some attention from workers. Attention more needed by the other two for the time being.

Plus, as i allready said economyy isnt THAT aufull. Part of the problem is we are working with a size 2 and a size 1 cities, once they grow about 30 :commerce: can be had with max production, or even more if coasts are worked for their :commerce: alone.

The settler is just 4 turns from completition and can settle the wheat city in 3 turns, delaying him wont accomplish much.(Id prefer not building him at all but thats another matter alltogether.) While it may not be able to build a monum initially, it can still grow a bit.
Do get rid of St Pet's warrior though as his fogbusting role is now fullfiled. And connect the cities together ASAP for the 3 :commerce: trade. You are running only 4 :science:, its easy to improve imidiate research by 50% by just micromanaging a bit.

If what Slaze means ,however, is keeping Moscow at size 2 and keep :whipped: id have to disagree. A size 4-5 Moscow can have 12 :hammers: if put 2 more mines and still :whipped: at some speed. It ll make the bulk of your axes, just let it grow building barracks, and get one worker here for the mines.

Moscow needs worker attention before the wheat city that ll be waiting for its pop, you should connect the wheat city by road however on your way to Moscow.;)

The best of luck!:)
 
If what Slaze means ,however, is keeping Moscow at size 2 and keep :whipped: id have to disagree. A size 4-5 Moscow can have 12 :hammers: if put 2 more mines and still :whipped: at some speed. It ll make the bulk of your axes, just let it grow building barracks, and get one worker here for the mines.

Nah, I meant what you want, the usual go a turn and 6 or less :hammers: into pop 6, whip to 4, eek it out to 5, max growth to the end of 5, finish an axeman, and repeat. (slightly different to my above, however). Yeah it's confusing but it's just slavery 101.

And you're probably right on the delayed settler thing. Although I just gave it a better look and to get it right it seems to be about 4 turns of barracks in between the settler coming out. I know it's pennies but every :commerce: helps. But then it needs a barracks so maybe it's best to just settle the wheat and get it over with.

And I'd pull in the canal warrior to the forest 2S of horses
 
as someone else posted in the thread i doubt you need anywhere near a dozen axemen let alone a few dozen... he doesn't have metals. Just Take out his capital asap and eventually move your capital there for the burecracy bonus with the gems. Moscow is great for generating great people.
 
...and then rename Nidaros "Kiev," since Kiev was the capital of the kingdom of the Rus, who were originally Vikings. It'll be cool.
 
And don't worry about Raggy taking Feudalism off the Oracle...it's unlikely, and if it does happen, we are well and truly boned anyway.

That is true... :lol:


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Raggie,

although our nicely planned axerush on your brand new longbows failed miserably and only barely managed to scrach your shiny forces... and of course was whiped out in the progress... Would you mind gifting some of those over-abundant gem mines to a poor twit like us :shifty:

With best regards
Peter

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Hopefully this is going to work then :goodjob:
 
Ragnar getting to longbows before axe stack arrives is a problem. Two ways to avoid it: rush early or don't rush at all. How early is early? That's the question.
 
Yeah it's confusing but it's just slavery 101.

Now that the goal is apparent the mechanics are quite clear to me, that or my head is clearer today.:blush:
Anyhow, should get one axe out per 3 turns, rather than per 3.5 and any bit faster is good.

As for how many axes it ll take, one gets in to shape so he churns around 1/turn and rushes when the opportunity comes up. He may get iron with his 3rd city , then again he may not. The rush is doable anyway.

Its not entirely unlikely he gets oracle=>feudalism(longbows), but he still needs Writing (had he or Mehmed theyd have OB between them) and Monarchy. And why would he focus on that path without active hostilities.
Heck, as far as we know he may go for either of the polytheism wonders instead, after he founds his 3rd city of course. Not quite the imminent threat.;)
 
Delaying rushing Ragnar risks him taking feudalism (longbows) off of the oracle (3 gems + marble). This does happen and can be a huge blow to your plans to expand.

Sheesh - just how good is this BetterAI? I would never dream of something like that happening in a normal Monarch game.

Makes it kinda hard to strategize for those of us who haven't played with the mod.
 
I just had a thought. Isn't the Better AI supposed to try to achieve all types of victory (not just space race)? If that's true, I'd really be interested in running into a neighbor we haven't met yet who is trying to win by conquest/domination. Not to be a downer, but I'm actually more interested in seeing how much more efficient the AI is than in seeing Peter's traits showcased.
 
Sheesh - just how good is this BetterAI? I would never dream of something like that happening in a normal Monarch game.

Makes it kinda hard to strategize for those of us who haven't played with the mod.

I have this happen on monarch WITHOUT the better AI mod. Just last night I had ALEX take feudalism off the oracle in the BC era and he didn't even have 3 gems in his capital (not sure about marble tbh).
 
Eh, I succeeded in beating AIs with axemen rushes on Emperor before they got Longbows. I agree that Ragnar's really well positioned to get longbows early, but I still maintain that if you go for the capital you have very few chances of fighting anything beside archers and maybe an axe or a spear.
 
A big tell on the Feudalism path is Hereditary Rule. If Sisiutil's building up an army and then sees Ragnar switch, I't might be time to strike.
 
A big tell on the Feudalism path is Hereditary Rule. If Sisiutil's building up an army and then sees Ragnar switch, I't might be time to strike.

That's what I'll be watching for as well.

Sorry, didn't get the next round played last night. Will try again tonight.
 
I don't know that a switch by Ragnar to HR is going to be that important. Oracle is going to be finished by someone long before the axe rush is ready to happen. If someone other than Ragnar builds it then we're ok. If Ragnar builds it then a scout will need to keep an eye on Nidaros to see if the garrison archers turn into LBs. If they do then I would think it would be time to end the round and solicit advice for "Plan B". :cry:

Otherwise the axe rush can continue as planned. I doubt Ragnar will actually research Feudalism much before the end of the BCs.
 
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