ALC Game 17: Russia/Peter

:lol:

I'm allergic to crab meat, though its virtual form in the game is just fine. No, it'll be a tofu-based stir-fry. Our two dinner guests are vegans.

Which reminds me: the game needs soy bean resource. +1 health and +1 happy in all cities on your continent's west coast.

It would also make it so your units need +25% more experience to gain promotions. The stuff is bad for testosterone levels, ya know.:p
 
Yes.. I am very much looking forward to a BtS ALC... I think it will give me a very good introduction!

Although, I must admit, I'm curious to see how this current game will turn out, Sisiutil!
 
Indeed, I may even wait until we see the completion of the first BTS ALC before I buy the expansion.
 
Please continue this game Sisiutil. See how you handle a bad stroke of luck like this. Just get construction asap and then crush the little bugger (ok maybe at the cost of 10 suicide catapults or so :(). Even if you are defeated you can learn a lot from this one.
 
Once you get BtS in your hands, there's no way I'd expect you to finish this any time soon.

I say just finish the thing offline in one sitting and then let us know what happened.

If you want to replay the ALC as Peter in BtS, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, I just want to see what happens to this game.
 
Just make the next round a big one and let's hurry through this one so we can see BTS. I don't want you playing 7 offline games with BTS before finishing this one and leaving us all hanging. :nono:
 
How about I make all of you a promise--I'm not allowed to buy BtS until after this ALC is complete?

As for the first BtS ALC versus off-line games: many people are urging me to play BtS off-line before playing an ALC with it, but I think I might prefer getting everyone's insight into all the game play changes. On the other hand, I do need to play off-line for awhile every now and again.
 
How about I make all of you a promise--I'm not allowed to buy BtS until after this ALC is complete?

As for the first BtS ALC versus off-line games: many people are urging me to play BtS off-line before playing an ALC with it, but I think I might prefer getting everyone's insight into all the game play changes. On the other hand, I do need to play off-line for awhile every now and again.

RUF:banana::banana::banana:?

Buy BtS.

Play BtS.

Seriously.
 
How about I make all of you a promise--I'm not allowed to buy BtS until after this ALC is complete?

As for the first BtS ALC versus off-line games: many people are urging me to play BtS off-line before playing an ALC with it, but I think I might prefer getting everyone's insight into all the game play changes. On the other hand, I do need to play off-line for awhile every now and again.

What discipline it would take for you to play your first BtS game as an ALC, and sqeeze through it that way.

I suppose though, once it makes it to the ALC, games will be a lot less predictable. You'll have to let Sisiutil be Sisiutil and not listen to a thing we say as you go through those games. In that way it kinda feels like a close to the "Warlords" ALC, this Peter game. Kinda makes me wanna pick the save up, and make it my last warlords game.
 
Sorry, I got depressed by this game so I played an off-line one on the weekend as Hatty and my War Chariots, as usual, KICKED AI BUTT.
What's to be depressed about? This is a minor bump in the road, nothing more. (Though I do like your method of blowing off steam -- for me, my perfect relaxation method is playing as Gandhi at Chieftain level, where I found all the religions, build all the wonders, and win by Domination by REX'ing like crazy....)

I'm rather concerned, though, that you're not playing to the leader's strengths. Heck, in your own Leader Traits article, you stress that Expansive leaders should prioritize Granaries and whip like crazy, yet here you are in 500BC and you don't even have Pottery yet! And while you did get Writing early, you've yet to build a single library for specialists to capitalize on the Philosophical trait.

Your biggest problem right now is research. To be honest, you never should have started on IW when it would take 32 turns...that's a huge red flag that you're teching way too slow. (It's similar to your Mehmed game when Mathematics was taking 40+ turns...right away I was thinking, "Oh sh*t, he's gonna lose this one.") The good news is that it can be fixed; Moscow can run 2-3 specialists without breaking a sweat, and your other cities can switch between specialists and production as needed.

However, your biggest priority RIGHT NOW is to get the canal city & fur city founded. Maybe a 6th city too, the coastal spot closest to Moscow. (The spices can wait for Calendar.) You've got enough axes for defense, so forget about military and BUILD BUILD BUILD until you get catapults. As others said, Ragnar is currently tech-heavy but production-poor -- you should have no problem rolling over him via sheer force of numbers.

P.S. Don't get hung up on those people claiming to have taken Nidros with only six axemen, I strongly suspect those games involved a LOT of reloading...and for sure Ragnar didn't take Feudalism off the bloody Oracle!! (I *still* can't believe that happened...)
 
What's to be depressed about? This is a minor bump in the road, nothing more. (Though I do like your method of blowing off steam -- for me, my perfect relaxation method is playing as Gandhi at Chieftain level, where I found all the religions, build all the wonders, and win by Domination by REX'ing like crazy....)

I'm rather concerned, though, that you're not playing to the leader's strengths. Heck, in your own Leader Traits article, you stress that Expansive leaders should prioritize Granaries and whip like crazy, yet here you are in 500BC and you don't even have Pottery yet! And while you did get Writing early, you've yet to build a single library for specialists to capitalize on the Philosophical trait.

Your biggest problem right now is research. To be honest, you never should have started on IW when it would take 32 turns...that's a huge red flag that you're teching way too slow. (It's similar to your Mehmed game when Mathematics was taking 40+ turns...right away I was thinking, "Oh sh*t, he's gonna lose this one.") The good news is that it can be fixed; Moscow can run 2-3 specialists without breaking a sweat, and your other cities can switch between specialists and production as needed.

However, your biggest priority RIGHT NOW is to get the canal city & fur city founded. Maybe a 6th city too, the coastal spot closest to Moscow. (The spices can wait for Calendar.) You've got enough axes for defense, so forget about military and BUILD BUILD BUILD until you get catapults. As others said, Ragnar is currently tech-heavy but production-poor -- you should have no problem rolling over him via sheer force of numbers.

P.S. Don't get hung up on those people claiming to have taken Nidros with only six axemen, I strongly suspect those games involved a LOT of reloading...and for sure Ragnar didn't take Feudalism off the bloody Oracle!! (I *still* can't believe that happened...)

For the record it was no reloading. I had open borders and watched Nidaros pop a settler and send half it's 4 archers out with it and capitalized =)
 
I guess the BetterAI really is Better after all, huh? But like I said, if this happened, there's no way you could have stopped him.

Sure you can. My favorite rush is the harassment Warrior rush to pillage and worker steal and the like. That would have stopped him.
 
Round 4: 565 BC to 245 AD

This wasn't necessarily the most exciting round, but I did start to make up for some lost ground, and the SE started to come into its own.

I started off by making the suggested course corrections. For starters, I changed the tech I was researching:

ALC17_245AD_01.jpg


Yikes! 52 turns?

Well, I stuck with it, trusting the SE would shave several turns off of that. Fortunately it did. In addition, as you'll see, I tech traded like crazy once I gained the ability to do so.

I also changed builds in Moscow to a Setter and managed to churn one out pretty quickly with the help of a chop. A few turns later, I founded my 4th city:

ALC17_245AD_02.jpg


So that cuts off Ragnar from my land, such as it is.

REX was one priority, but as everyone made clear, so was research. With the SE being the goal here, that meant libraries. I pop-rushed some of them:

ALC17_245AD_03.jpg


As you can see, I put the overflow into a Worker--another suggestion from the posts here, to take full advantage of Expansive's benefits. The Worker completed in 2 turns rather than the listed 6.

I didn't pop-rush all of the libraries, however--some of the newer cities really needed to grow so I'd have the population to turn into Scientists.

Speaking of new cities, I founded another one:

ALC17_245AD_04.jpg


And a couple of turns later, I finished researching Alphabet:

ALC17_245AD_05.jpg


Someone else may care to work out how many turns that was. I'm pretty sure it wasn't 52, so the SE did start to make a difference. You can see that, in fact, by checking the turns required for the other techs:

ALC17_245AD_06.jpg


Quite a difference from earlier in the game, eh? Especially at 20% on the slider! By this point I had libraries in almost all my cities and was running 1 or 2 scientists as well. I don't think I've had a game before where getting the SE up and running made such a dramatic difference.

With Alphabet in hand, it was time to go visit the neighbours. As you might expect, Ragnar was useless. As I recall, he won't tech trade anything until he reaches Friendly status. Hinduism had not yet spread to any of my cities (though the diplomatically-useless Confucianism did), so relations with him weren't going to improve anytime soon. That meant it was down to the Ottoman and the Chinaman:

ALC17_245AD_07.jpg


ALC17_245AD_08.jpg


(If "Chinaman" is an offensive term now, I apologize. It's tough for a middle-aged guy like me to keep up on this PC stuff sometimes.)

So... do I have Iron? You betcha, though I had to wait for a 3rd border pop to claim it:

ALC17_245AD_09.jpg


Running those scientists, plus the Philosophical trait, meant I got my first Great Person pretty quickly.


ALC17_245AD_10.jpg


It was difficult to decide what to do with him. On the one hand, I could start stockpiling Great Scientists in anticipation of the Liberalism race. That was tempting, but I didn't like it. First off, I don't like the idea of having Great People sitting around doing nothing for you. Second, I was still woefully behind in techs and needed to do everything I could to catch up.

In most of my games now I'm primarily using Great Scientists to lightbulb technologies. Merging and Academies have become much lower priorities. I do the math, and they rarely compare to all the flasks you get from a lightbulb--not to mention the immediate and potentially strategic advantage. So some of you might think it a naff move, but I popped the GS for Compass.

I then went to see what I could get for it:

ALC17_245AD_11.jpg


That, I thought, was a pretty decent deal, especially since I have horses, and as you'll see, it didn't end there.

But I had other things on the go. REX continued, though I was down to my less optimal city sites now:

ALC17_245AD_12.jpg


It'll never amount to much, but if it can run a couple of scientists (probably not until Civil Service, though I could be wrong), then it's worth it. I also think I need one more city, this one south of St. Petersburg to claim that spice tile. I caught Mao sending an Axe and a Settler into my territory and I suspect he was trying to claim it for himself, despite its high-cost location. He currently has a spice monopoly, so maybe the BetterAI is trying to maintain it? Or maybe it's just the usual AI habit of claiming any free land. In any case, I canceled our Open Borders agreement and have to make my mind up about this city soon.

With cities everywhere, my Scouts were now free to go roaming. I set them to auto-explore--mistake! Two Scouts wasted time exploring their home turf, and I lost another one when it ended a turn next to a barb city. One more example of how even with a Better AI, automation is rarely a good idea.

They did reveal, however, that Ragnar has focused on a military build-up:

ALC17_245AD_13.jpg


Hmm. I'll have to start building a defensive force myself, just to be on the safe side. My Axes are all in Rostov; my inner cities are all protected by a single Warrior.

Remember I said I wasn't done with trading Compass? Well, not directly. Remember I got Horseback Riding from it?

ALC17_245AD_14.jpg


Overall, then, I think popping Compass paid off handsomely. Isn't that part of the idea of the SE--lightbulbing techs which you can then trade?

However, I'm not yet running a pure SE; as no doubt many of you purists have noted, I keep inching up the slider. Hey, I'm fighting for my life here. Maybe once I get Code of Laws, Philosophy, and CS and switch to Bureaucracy, Caste System, and Pacifism, I might feel comfy with pushing the slider down to 0%. Not yet though.

Finally, towards the end of the round, the continent's favourite religion spread to me:

ALC17_245AD_15.jpg


At last! I converted immediately. It will take a few turns, however, to accrue the full "We care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" diplomatic benefits--in other words, for Ragnar to consider tech trading with me.

Thats fifteen screenshots, so that's it for this post. I'll follow up with a "state of the world" post with more information about where things stand. Stay tuned!
 

Attachments

The State of the World, 245 AD

To start off with, I earned by 2nd Great Scientist a couple of turns before the round ended. He's awaiting my pleasure in Moscow:

ALC17_245ADsow_01.jpg


As you can see, he'll lightbulb Calendar. I'm not too enthused about that, since as you'll see, both Ragnar and Mao have the tech and should hope I'll be able to get it from one of them. I could use him for an Academy, or I can save him for a more useful tech--such as those on the Liberalism path--later on. I await your opinions.

I also finished researching another tech:

ALC17_245ADsow_02.jpg


Partially this is for defense, but dare I begin a military build-up (necessary in any case, if only as a deterrent, I think) and attempt to storm Nidaros with a combination of Catapults and Swordsmen? I play off-line games as Rome a lot, and I'm used to taking on Longbowmen in a similar fashion, but mind you, that's with Praetorians. But Ragnar built the Hindu shrine this round, so his capital just keeps looking better and better as a tempting prize. I don't know if I want to (or can afford to) wait for Cossacks. Mind you, the Hindu love-fest means there will be definite diplomatic consequences to declaring on the Viking. Decisions, decisions.

At any rate, let's have a look at the other indicators, starting with the domestic advisor:

ALC17_245ADsow_03.jpg


Yeah, mostly domestic stuff. I really think I'll need to switch to military builds very soon.

Civics:

ALC17_245ADsow_04.jpg


Good ol' Slavery and not much else!

Foreign relations:

ALC17_245ADsow_05.jpg


Strange how Mao is "Cautious" with a shared religion and all! He's a fussy bugger, isn't he?

The shared religion, however, isn't exactly paying dividends in the tech arena:

ALC17_245ADsow_06.jpg


I imagine that will change as they warm up to the new convert. What does this mean for the fate of my GS?

Current trade deals:

ALC17_245ADsow_07.jpg


So, yeah, I think I should found spice city, then cancel the deal with Mao and renew the OB agreement.

Religions:

ALC17_245ADsow_08.jpg


I think Rostov's next build needs to be a Hindu monastery so I can start spreading the state religion.

Power:

ALC17_245ADsow_09.jpg


Yes, that's worrisome, hence my impetus to shift to military builds. I think I should ensure I've got Granaries and Lighthouses everywhere possible, then start whipping an army. Does everyone think I can take Ragnar with Catapults and Swords?

Demographics:

ALC17_245ADsow_10.jpg


As usual this early in the game, I suck.

And finally, a look at the map:

ALC17_245ADsow_11.jpg


So that's where things stand. Let me know what you think--like I have to ask! ;) :D
 
:smoke:, :smoke:, and a triple helping of :spank: :spank: :spank: for not founding Yekaterinburg to get the flood plain. And cottage yo capital!

Seriously, glad you're playing again.

Swordsmen are good enough if the Iron is his only metal, and you knock it out before he builds Crossbows and Berserkers. Not sure whether you can build any kind of stack by then. If you did it, I think you'd want to go straight to Nidaros, and maybe settle for just that. But that would be worth it. Actually, it would be fabulous if you could get him to go Confucian.

At this point I'd probably save the Scientist.
 
You need to break out, that's a foregone conclusion. Build up cats and swords, siege engines are nerfed in BTS, you'd better give them one last hurrah before you get to re adapt. Swordsmen will work just like Praetorians, but you will need a lot more of them. Beelining macemen is a possibility too, and macemen do just as well as Praets, your choice. You will need HAs too, because any buildup of zerkers will destroy your swordsmen, take out his iron fast and don't let him hook it up.
 
an army with a handful of pillagers (A few HA for land war may do you good too), a few axes (and spears? doesn't seem necessary) for stack defence, and a horde (10 may be a bit short) of catapults should give you a nice new land. If you manage to lure a few troops with workers or any bait, it may be less costly.
 
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