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ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Indeed. And this was with a comparatively tough start. If Sis had started out with coastal access to other civs the game might well have been over by this point.

    As it is I'd say that, barring any dramatic and unforseen complications, the educational part of this game has passed.

    So my only advice to Sis is to wrap the game up asap, start preparing for the next challenge, and remember to go up a level next time you play a watery map with a watery leader. :old:
     
  2. Daedal

    Daedal Prince

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    All that debate over who to attack first and it seems like anyone would've been a good enough target. :D
     
  3. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Sure, but if you can pick any target you should always pick the juiciest/most dangerous target.
     
  4. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    If you can, it often makes sense to go after the most dangerous opponent and Sisiutil was in a position to wage a decisive war in this game, sealing of the last remnants of hope the AI civs might have had of victory.
    I wouldn't say that it's always a good idea to go after the strongest opponent though.
     
  5. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    In a domination game, it's not always the way to go.
    Often, you go for the nearest target, juicy or not.
     
  6. iamnleth

    iamnleth Warlord

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    That's not how I see it. I take out the civilization with the most power or tech potential (tech over power).
     
  7. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    Round 10: 1722 AD to 1790 AD (34 turns)

    As I started the round, I checked and found I only had a few turns to go before earning my next Great Person:



    At this point I had three GPs lying around: a Great Scientist, a Great Engineer, and a Great Prophet. Remember I'd mentioned that I wanted to use the GP for a shrine in Carthage and the GS to accelerate the Ironworks in Hippo, but everyone told me to start a Golden Age instead.

    What I decided to do was this: First off, wait and see what GP type I got next out of Nidaros. Then, if it was not a Great Scientist, I would use it in combination with the GS to start the Golden Age, leaving me free to use the GP and GE as I'd initially wanted to. I also decided to delay the GA until I had the Pentagon near completion so I could switch out of Vassalage anarchy-free if I wanted to, since I would no longer need its two free XPs.

    My armada reached Hannibal's remaining island cities shortly after this. I quickly discovered that when you have Combat I, Drill I, City Raider III Amphibious Grenadiers going up against Rifles, you usually only need to sacrifice one Cannon before attacking with them.



    Heck, you can even forgo the Cannons--my Grens were still getting 93% to 97% odds without them.

    Back in Nidaros, my next GP appeared:



    Hmmm, well, yes, I was tempted to use him for another trade mission, but I'm quite capable of making money hand over fist at this point, and a Golden Age would enhance that. So this allowed me to use the other Great People as I'd wanted to.



    That provided a nice financial boost--but unfortunately, I don't have any Confucian monasteries! Oh well, live and learn.

    Shortly thereafter, Hannibal was finished:



    I noticed that I could found another city on this frigid land mass that could work a fish tile, iron, and uranium, so I got to work on a Settler before the round ended.

    I finally finished researching AL--that took a little while!



    I did not, however, upgrade my Grenadiers to Infantry. I was still facing mostly Riflemen. My Combat I Drill I CRIII Amphibious Grens, once they reached level five (yeah, three of those promotions were free--unreal, huh?) were getting Pinch (anti-gunpowder) promotions, making their odds against hapless Riflemen even more ridiculous. I decided to research Combustion next, so I decided to save my money for ship upgrades instead.

    By this time Hippo was out of revolt and ready for its national wonder:



    After building a levee and a factory there as well, I began on the Pentagon.

    Meanwhile, I proceeded with my research...



    And promptly emptied the bank by upgrading all my highly-promoted naval units (especially all those level 4/5/6 Privateers!) to Destroyers. I also upgraded a few of the fastest Galleons (w/ Navigation II) to Transports. Yes, the Vikings are starting to feel rather overpowered on this map and in this game.

    More techs rolled by:



    I used the free GG for a military academy in the capital.



    By this time I was rolling up Isabella's cities with ease and the Pentagon was less than 15 turns from completion in Hippo. So it was time to unleash a MoM-enhanced Golden Age:



    Not far into the GA, Spain was finito. Sorry, is that Italian? Whatever...



    For the rest of the round--about 10 turns--I settled back, built up infrastructure, and knocked off a couple of techs for the next war.





    I finished a wonder too.




    And that was it for the round. A state-of-the-world post will follow. Key questions, in my mind, are:
    • Who do I go after next? Mehmed is the next most challenging opponent and, as you'll see, ranks close to me in power. The other civs might be easier targets, but Mehmed, who has Combustion for Destroyers and Transports and is close to having Assembly Line
      for Infantry, would give the best chance to see some of the more modern units in action.
    • What civics should I adopt? I really only see myself changing Legal civics, leaving Vassalage behind for something better--Nationhood or Free Speech? Or should I stay with Vassalage? And should I reconsider and change from Representation to Police State?
    • What should I research next? I've chosen Electricity because Hammy won't trade it, and it unlocks Industrialism for Marines and Tanks. Are we agreed on that? What other techs will be important in the next round?
    And of course, any other comments or advice are always welcome.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Nice round. The game's about wrapped up.
     
  9. Quotey

    Quotey Emperor

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    I think you should just forgo a war with Mehmed for your own sake. Just finish it with Sury and Roosevelt
     
  10. Validator

    Validator Prince

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    The problem is it doesn't look like he can get enough land to reach the domination threshold without taking on Mehmed or Hammurabi at some point.

    Edit: Actually there should be enough land available by taking out Sury and Roosevelt. I mixed up the land and population percentages.

    Are you trying to make this game more difficult so it will be more interesting? Why waste turns going after Izzy instead of using your military tech advantage against Mehmed or Hammurabi when you had the chance? And you just couldn't resist going after one more wonder, could you?. Oh well...

    At this point I would say you're probably better off going after the weak civs next. Take all their land and see how far short of the domination threshold you are. If you're real close you could launch a quick attack on Mehmed or Hammurabi's distant islands and hope that the revolts end fast enough that you win the game before they can launch a counter-attack.

    You also might want to send a force to capture the barb city of Chinook before one of the AIs decides to.

    You might want to consider foregoing some of the civilian builds to focus on the military needs.

    One bit of good news is that Hammurabi has beelined MM, thereby obsoleting the AP. :crazyeye: So you won't face any of those annoying stop the war votes when you do attack one of the Islamic civs.
     
  11. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    The State of the World, 1790 AD

    Keep in mind that all of the following screens' information will be skewed by the current golden age.

    Domestic advisor:



    Most of the infrastructure I built this round was factories, and that had to be followed by grocers, harbours, and public transit to deal with the health issues.

    Financial Advisor:



    Again, skewed by the GA, but included nevertheless.

    Civics:



    So I have three turns left to change civics anarchy-free--should I? If so, to what? This may be the last civics change of the game.

    Foreign advisor, relations and glance:





    This is one of the few games where I've had all remaining civs pleased with me, I think.

    Active trade deals:



    Trade route income and civics:



    Based upon the above, you can see that Hammurabi is my biggest trading partner, followed by Mehmed (based on trade route income). So attacking either of them would be painful for awhile, and since they're both Muslim, I risk alienating the other. Neither of them would terribly mind if I went after Surry and/or Roosevelt.

    Techs:



    So I still have a tech lead, and just need Electricity and Radio to completely catch up. I've been trading techs to the other civs for gold when they're 1 or 2 turns from completion--something that espionage is very handy for.

    Military Advisor:



    A long ways to go for the next GG, but I don't really need many more at this point. If I go after Mehmed, I'd like to research Industrialism ASAP for Battleships, since he'll have Destroyers, and probably several of them. One thing I've noticed on this map type is that the AI concentrates a lot of its military builds and power into ships.

    Victory conditions:



    This brings up the big question: yes, Surry and Roosevelt are easier targets--but would the really give me enough land for a domination win? If not, wouldn't it be better to go after Mehmed now while I have a bit of military tech lead on him?

    Power:



    Based on this, Mehmed is my biggest challenger and toughest target. Several of my recently-won cities aren't exactly well-defended. The tough thing about a big empire is often defending it.

    Demographics--skewed, remember, by the GA:



    And, finally, espionage:



    I had to make adjustments every now and then to keep that current research knowledge. Isabella left behind several EP-generating buildings, so that may be handy here.

    So--war FTW, but with whom?
     
  12. PimpyMicPimp

    PimpyMicPimp Regrets His Username.

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    Wait, Izzy is dead?! :eek:

    I hadn't noticed that in the update! I suppose she was so weak it doesn't make a huge difference. I would like to see you take on Mehemed, if only to make it a little more challenging since this game has been a walk in the park for you thus far.
     
  13. Bobbalouie

    Bobbalouie Chieftain

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    Take out Mehmed and Hammurabbi. Roosevedlt and Sury don't have enough land for a domination victory i don't think.
     
  14. Validator

    Validator Prince

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    Oops. I'm afraid my earlier analysis was wrong. :blush: I mixed up the population and the land percentages on the victory screen. :(

    Hammurabi is in second place with 17% of the land, so even if Mehmed is a close third that still means they only control 34% between them. As long as you minimize the number of neutral tiles you should be able to reach the domination land threshold by taking out Sury and Roosevelt. Mehmed and Hammurabi won't be an issue (unless they decide to declare war on you :mischief: ).

    Capture Chinook and make sure you have settlers available to claim any neutral lands. You may need several to claim all the ice tiles on the southern part of the American continent.
     
  15. Melon Head

    Melon Head Warlord

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    Take out Hammurabi + Roosevelt/Sury. With Hammurabi's lands you're at 56-57% of land mass, meaning you can snag either Roosevelt or Sury for the win. Plus Hammurabi will be much easier than Mehmed. See if you can get Mehmed to go after the 3rd AI, the one you don't plan on attacking. I.e. if you want Hammurabi and Sury, have Mehmed go after Roosevelt, either through stopping trade -> worsening relations or something like that. Just don't let Mehmed capture any land you want. I don't know if espionage can help you in that regard. Additionally, if you're really close don't be afraid of DoW'ing Mehmed. It will take at least one or two turns for him to capture any of your cities once you DoW (I can't tell from screens, are any of your cities on the same land mass as his? If not, then at least 3 or 4 turns) which gives you enough time to cap a bunch of cities to push you over the limit. It won't be necessary and probably not a great idea compared to taking on Roosevelt/Hammurabi/Sury before they get lots of Destroyers, but worth thinking about.

    Also, you should tech Battleships next. I'm sure you know this, but it would be beneficial. Be careful, though. C3 Destroyers are almost the equal of Battleships. Learned that one the hard way in a Mali game (they're also almost the equal of Missile Cruisers, esp. because they can hide in ports to ambush your attacking fleets....*grumble*).
     
  16. tycoonist

    tycoonist Deity

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    go for sury and roosevelt first and then hammurabi if neccessary
     
  17. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Mehmed is second in pop and not getting on too well with Sury or Roose. Is a diplomatic victory possible?
     
  18. ranion

    ranion Chieftain

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    pop off Mehmed, he's the only one who will pose any threat to you in you effort to dominate the world and the only one who could potentially throw a spanner in the works if you decide to try and get your land from sury and roosevelt.
     
  19. tycoonist

    tycoonist Deity

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    why conquer half the world and then go for the cheapest victory? we want war!!! :lol:
     
  20. uncarved block

    uncarved block Prince

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    Personally, I'd switch to Free Speech during the GA, on the off chance that the extra culture expansion might shave a turn or five off the game, especially in newly conquered territory. But that may not be as much of an issue in this game.

    Go after Mehmed if it looks like you'll get a chance to use some of the added late units in BtS, just to see the combat animations if nothing else. If you think that won't happen, though, I'd save the headache of one tough war for two easy ones any day.
     

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