ALC Game 21: Zulus/Shaka

1 thing in favor of taking the capitulation right away is that you don't have to waste troops on taking some cities from the french and also destroying a lot of French troops. Then if you point your guns at the next AI both the Zulu's and the French will be strong so the dogpiling will be easier :)
 
Another vote for accepting French capitulation.
I'm curious, how likely do you guys think he could vassalise to Peter if Sis goes on with the war?
 
Clearly take the capitulation.
He can capitulate to Peter quickly, which is bad, and then Peter can turn on you. Better to have all the guns pointed at Peter.
Hammy is really not a factor any more, only Peter and you matters.
Another point for capitulation:
If you were going for space, time or conquest, then you shouldn't take the capitulation. But you are closer to domination than any other victory, which a fast victory over Peter would yield (netting only Hammy as a free state). Domination is about production, and de Gaulle's cities wont do much good for some time, in production terms, though if he keeps them, they will help him as an ally. Faster capitulation = better.


P.s. I feel stupid giving advise to want is a clearly better player than I. Ah well, my 0.02 :gold: .
 
You could easily win a diplomatic victory from here, but Shaka should not stoop to such backdoor shenanigans.

Enslave De Gaulle, tech to Infantry, kill Peter, start new ALC (and this time make it a proper challenge!).

Considering he'll be using the potentially awesome Lincoln next (Philosopical and Charismatic), that might not be the case.
 
Take the capitulation. In any war between your bloc and Peter, De Gaulle has the much longer frontier. You could try to see if Hammy will capitulate to you
seeing how quickly you accept capitualtions and you're big and powerful. It would give Shaka a domination victory, if you can pull it off.
 
Round 10: 1740 AD to 1814 AD (37 turns)

I started the round by accepting De Gaulle's capitulation, which the overwhelming majority of you advocated.

ALC21_1814AD_01.jpg


It made sense; get this war over with and get on with the next one with my biggest opponent.

As I examined the map, I began to wonder if I might not find an opportunity to repeat the tactic I'd used on De Gaulle. That is, if Peter had a large stack in one city that bordered one of my vassals, I could launch the attack there and do a serious amount of damage to his military and, as a result, to his power rating as well. Sure enough, an opportunity presented itself:

ALC21_1814AD_02.jpg


Bwa-ha-ha...

So all I had to do was move my stack over there. I even built several roads in American territory to facilitate this. Once my units were right outside of L.A., it was time:

ALC21_1814AD_03.jpg


One of the benefits of having vassals is not just that they give you resources and sometimes techs and add to your power rating. You also get to boss them around. Not only can you direct their research, you can also tell them where to fight if you're at war.

ALC21_1814AD_04.jpg


In De Gaulle's case, I wanted him to stay out of Russia's south and thereby out of my way. I wanted that territory for myself. So I told him to attack a city (Yaroslavl', you can see it on the left) that was well away from my target area (compare to the mini-map). I instructed Wang Kon to attack Babylon. I tried sending George over there, but he didn't go. I had better luck, as you'll see, having him attack Russia's western coastline. This leads me to believe that the attack instructions are most successful if they're relatively in line with the AI's preferences--which is, of course, to attack the closest target.

L.A. was so packed with units that it took two turns of fighting to capture it.

ALC21_1814AD_05.jpg


Shortly after this, I gave it back to Washington. It's not much of a city, after all. You might wonder, in fact, why I didn't raze it. First off, with two peaks on one side and the coast on the other, it's a good strategic choke point. Second, I was doing almost all of my fighting out of my vassals' territory. That meant I didn't incur the additional maintenance costs that I would have if they'd spent more time in enemy territory. However, I had to be in my own territory in order to perform any upgrades. So capturing and holding a city for a couple of turns let me do that.

I killed well over three dozen of Peter's units and lost a handful of my own (low-XP Cannon, mostly), so war weariness mounted quickly. So I made a single civics change, to Nationhood.

ALC21_1814AD_06.jpg


I was building the Globe Theatre in Cuzco at this point to provide a good drafting point. The former Incan capital had two corn tiles and lots of riverside grassland, so I figured it would recover population lost to drafting relatively quickly.

I kept capturing Russian cities:

ALC21_1814AD_07.jpg


Meanwhile, Hammurabi attempted to use the AP to stop the war, but failed.


ALC21_1814AD_08.jpg


Wow, look at the mad-on De Gaulle and George have for Peter!

In this screen you can see an example of my "vassal coaxing" at work:

ALC21_1814AD_09.jpg


I was able to persuade Washington to attack Circassian, leaving me able to take interior cities like Harappan and Houston. After this, I was able to get him to attack and capture Krasnoyarsk, which you can just see at the very top right. (Notice that Houston was in Russian hands for so long that I don't even get an option to give it back to the Americans.) I couldn't get George to help his fellow vassal Wang Kon by attacking the Babylonians, but I was able to direct him against nearby cities. Interesting, and good to remember in the future.

Another turn, another Russian city falls.

ALC21_1814AD_10.jpg


That was enough for Peter, especially with his old enemy George rolling up his seaboard as well.

ALC21_1814AD_11.jpg


There seems to be something of a snowball effect with vassals--I think their power is indeed added to yours by the AI, and that's why they've been so quick to capitulate in this game. So Peter joined my growing list of vassals, and only Hammurabi remained out of Zulu control.

At this point, I checked the victory screen to see how far I had to go:

ALC21_1814AD_12.jpg


So I had nearly double the population required for domination but not quite enough land. Interesting how the Conquest section says I have 5 rivals left--I though vassalizing them counted too, in which case this screen should say I only have 1 rival left at this point.

My power rating was now huge compared to everyone else's, and if all my vassals were added to it then it must have been extremely intimidating. However, Hammurabi refused to buckle. It took a few turns, but I moved my stack into his territory and captured one of his cities:

ALC21_1814AD_13.jpg


Well, that was all it took! Amazing. De Gaulle and Hammurabi both capitulate after losing only one city, Wang Kon after losing two... only Washington and Peter proved at all defiant, and not for long.

On the next turn...

ALC21_1814AD_15.jpg


Interesting that it's a domination win rather than conquest. Whatever, it's still a win, a satisfying one, and an authentically Zulu win at that.

Next up, the post mortem. The saved game file from the winning turn is below.
 

Attachments

Wow !
Quick and dirty, one might say :clap:

According to your list, Lincoln will be next ?
Never played with him so far, looking forward to learn something.
 
Post Mortem

Here's a look at the Victory Conditions:

ALC21_1814AD_16.jpg


Now that's curious; according to that, I'm short of the land area needed for domination. It's certainly a conquest victory, but the screen said I won by domination. Strange. Can anyone explain this?

A look at the map, or at least part of it:


ALC21_1814AD_27.jpg


That inland sea is not that big. With the world wrap on, there was a lot of land in this game. I noticed that this game played slower on my computer as a result.

The tale of the tape is next, starting with scores for the whole game.

ALC21_1814AD_17.jpg


GNP:

ALC21_1814AD_18.jpg


Mfg. Goods (Production)... as usual, very telling. Hammers really are the key to this game, I believe.

ALC21_1814AD_19.jpg


Power ratings for the whole game:

ALC21_1814AD_20.jpg


And for the last 50 turns:

ALC21_1814AD_21.jpg


You can see vividly how taking down one city that contained a huge number of their units really hurt De Gaulle and Peter. It's not always possible to do that, of course. But when it is--it looks intimidating, but it's worthwhile. I mean, most of my units (Cannon, upgraded Riflemen, and Macemen) had City Raider promotions. So they do their best when attacking units in a city rather than in open ground.

Demographics:

ALC21_1814AD_22.jpg


#1 where it counts.

Top 5 cities:

ALC21_1814AD_23.jpg


No Zulu cities are in that list, and I'm rather proud of that. I pretty much avoided world wonders in this game, except for capturing them.

Statistics:

ALC21_1814AD_24.jpg


And, finally, the score:

ALC21_1814AD_25.jpg


Highest ALC score ever? Yep, highest ALC score ever. It also topped my highest off-line game, a Pangaea played as Julius Caesar that I won by conquest. My snowballing power rating led to the rapid capitulations that made this game finish early.

I'm not sure that I much like this map type; I really enjoy the naval side of the game, and the inland sea made that pretty irrelevant, along with a number of techs, units, tactics, strategies, and so on. And as I mentioned, the land-dominated map pushed my computer to its processing limit. So I don't think I'll use inland sea for another ALC game, nor other similar map types like great plains or lakes.

Shaka is fun, but your really have to be in the mood to warmonger. He's like either of the Caesars (but especially Julius) that way. The Impis are quite cool and useful early in the game, and I found that extra move for a melee unit came in handy for some time. It was only when I feared a massive counter-attack that I finally upgraded my veteran Impis to Riflemen. The UB was helpful, but not that big a help; remember how much trouble my economy was in early on, even with Ikhandas everywhere. Courthouses still rule for managing early REX through conquest.

As for the optional settings, I really expected Aggressive AI to be more of a challenge--but I guess when you're being aggressive yourself, it kind of balances out. In most games I take down the biggest opponent first. That wasn't really what I did here; my biggest potential enemies weren't conveniently located relative to my land. On top of that, probably thanks to the land-dominated map, one religion became dominant. So I wound up taking down some weaker opponents first--but that worked in my favour, as their power ratings were added to mine and as I mentioned before, that seemed to convince the AI civs I conquered later to capitulate as soon as they could.

No tech brokering would be a better setting if the AI wasn't completely opposed to trading for a tech it has partially researched. That's something I often do, and the handful of turns saved each time are valuable. It also usually means I get a tech for a bargain basement price. Consider how much Peter was asking me for Rifling at first; after researching it a little over half-way, his price dropped considerably. The main impact of NTB was on my vassals; I couldn't trade/give them military techs like Rifling because I'd traded for them. That struck me as the main thing to keep in mind with that setting.

As for no goody huts... well, I kind of missed them. Several people pointed out that the lack of huts slowed down everybody, and combined with Aggressive AI, that certainly seemed to be the case. I kind of prefer having them around even if they sometimes benefit the AI more than me. They do indeed help accelerate the start of the game when techs are researched slowly; having a little extra gold or, if you're really lucky, a free tech can help the early game move a little faster.

So I'm not sure if and when I'll use those settings again. I was hoping they'd provide more of a challenge, but they didn't turn out that way. I'm becoming convinced that the AI is designed to play with the standard settings and plays best when they're used. So maybe it's time to move up a level to Immortal? :eek:

At any rate, the next game will be played as Lincoln of America. I'll start the pre-game thread later this week. Enjoy the rest of the weekend, everybody!
 
Great game! Was very enjoyable to read as always. Looking forward to Lincoln!
 
Congratulation, excellent game! :goodjob: With your perfomances here and in the Ragnar game, it really looks like you should move up a level. Of course the map types suited both leaders, but the Lincoln game should be a good Immortal test since his excellent traits might help compensate for the added difficulty, if it really turns out to be a problem.

I wonder how much gold the Islamic shrine was raking in near the end of the game ...

I instructed Wang Kon to attack Babylon. I tried sending George over there, but he didn't go. I had better luck, as you'll see, having him attack Russia's western coastline. This leads me to believe that the attack instructions are most successful if they're relatively in line with the AI's preferences--which is, of course, to attack the closest target.

I wonder what's up with that (and if it's something for Bhruic to check out?). Does the AI not even attempt to follow these orders if the target city is far away (why, if it can still reach it?), or does it try to but fails somehow?
 
Good job on the high score. I think it was due to the map type; you basically picked conditions optimal for Zulu domination.
 
I wonder what's up with that (and if it's something for Bhruic to check out?). Does the AI not even attempt to follow these orders if the target city is far away (why, if it can still reach it?), or does it try to but fails somehow?

I think it's more a question for game balance that the AI, really--how closely should a vassal have to follow your orders? Vassals readily accede to your tech research instructions, and almost always cough up resources when asked. On the other hand, there's no guarantee they'll give you gold or trade techs to you, not unless, I think, you get them to "Friendly", and even then I don't think they'll trade space ship techs to you. So maybe the attack orders fall into the same category as gold requests and tech trading--they'll consider it, but there's no guarantee. I'm fine with that--as I indicated in this game, I felt like I was getting a handle on how to manage that particular part of the master/vassal relationship.
 
Good job on the high score. I think it was due to the map type; you basically picked conditions optimal for Zulu domination.
Well, what I've found is that if you intend to warmonger and win by domination or conquest, a single landmass map is indeed ideal. Thus, my second-highest ever score was on a Pangaea playing as the Romans. So yes, we may have wound up loading the dice in my favour with the map selection, whatever gripes I may have had about it. That's more or less what happened in the Ragnar game that preceded this one too, so we should try to avoid that in the future.
 
Well, what I've found is that if you intend to warmonger and win by domination or conquest, a single landmass map is indeed ideal. Thus, my second-highest ever score was on a Pangaea playing as the Romans. So yes, we may have wound up loading the dice in my favour with the map selection, whatever gripes I may have had about it. That's more or less what happened in the Ragnar game that preceded this one too, so we should try to avoid that in the future.

I think the world wrap also contributed to this. If you had played on the standard inland sea settings, you would only have had two neighbors. After you had capitulated them, you would have had to go completely through their territory to get to your next target. I think the distances involved would have made the game a lot tougher (and perhaps caused a navy to be more helpful).
 
Noooo!! Please do go up to Immortal. IMO the high-level players give you advice, but the ones benefiting from the ALC's the most are those in the noble-monarch range.

Then again, you're not paid to do this :blush:, so you need to have some fun doing it... I guess it wouldn't be very challenging to steamroll Prince AI's for the next 30 ALC's once you've beaten emperor. ;)
 
Immortal strategies are perfectly valid on noble-monarch. There might be some weak strategies that work on noble, but not on immortal, but it's not like you are forced into a style, like in Vanilla Deity, where you needed to be super-aggressive. AIs don't get big bonuses any more (and immortal is just plain easier than it used to be), so any style will work. It's not like Sis is exactly a builder anyway.
 
Another great game and great read. Thankyou.

I did try a shadow game which was virtually the same up until you attacked HC, I was just about to attack HC as well when Wang Kon declared on me. I ended up coasting to a space victory (computer was going to slow to carry on fighting).

Anyway well done and I'm looking forward to the Lincoln game.
 
Very impressive. I didn't follow too closely on account of my computer is sort of broken, but I had the distinct sense that No Tech Brokering was actually an advantage to you. All the AIs seem to go for the same thing while you, knowing what they don't research themselves, can opt for something else and trade it to them.

But please don't move up a level. My feeling is that the higher levels are about math, and you hate math. I love math, but play Civ to get away from it.

Also, everyone, do not buy Hewlett-Packard products. Just sayin'.

Congrats!!
 
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