ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

Sorry for the delay, gang; I made the mistake of reading an un-put-downable book (Neil Gaiman's American Gods, if you must know). This bleary-eyed gamer just finished it, so I'll do my best to play and post tomorrow--unless I get caught up in another of his books... :blush: :lol:
 
What a great book! Watch out for Good Omens. Neil Gaiman co-wrote it with Terry Pratchett, so it's much more of a comedy/satire, and it is a fantastic read, while still getting some of the Gaiman's emphasis on mythology and his fantastic storytelling style.
 
Sorry for the delay, gang; I made the mistake of reading an un-put-downable book (Neil Gaiman's American Gods, if you must know). This bleary-eyed gamer just finished it, so I'll do my best to play and post tomorrow--unless I get caught up in another of his books... :blush: :lol:

That is one of my favorite books ever. Good taste!

Sleep well and good luck in the next round!
 
Nah, you definitely need to read Good Omens then. Just let us know ahead of time when you do. :D
 
My wife and I both love that book. There's a sequel, too: Anasi Boys. We had it from the library for a while but never started on it.
 
I believe it's called Anansi Boys. It's pretty cool, though I liked American Gods a lot better. Neil Gaiman rocks. I don't really like Terry Pratchett though - good writer, but it gets out of hand a little too often for my taste. Too hysterical...
 
I forgive you. I also command you to read Good Omens.
 
I *have* read Good Omens, sir. :) My opinion stands, though it's definitively one of the better Pratchett-touched books I've read.
 
Round 8: 160 AD to 385 AD (15 turns)

Okay, the ALC book club meeting is adjourned. Back to the game.

Boy, I am playing slowly and cautiously, ain't I? I'm not sure why, but the rounds seem longer while I'm playing them; I feel like I've played many more turns than I actually have. Then I determine the actual number played when posting here and I'm surprised when it's so few. It could be because I'm played a couple of off-line games at marathon speed and that's throwing me off back here on epic speed.

In any case, to start off, as usual, I spent some time implementing much of the good advice many of you gave. I cancelled that gem tribute to Zara for starters.

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I didn't cancel our Open Borders agreement, because I was building a work boat in Najran and it would need to go through Ethiopian territory to get to the crabs.

I had the Chariot pillage the hamlet and cottage outside of Etruscan, since I'll eventually be farming that tile around the time Civil Service comes along.

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Other things I did based on your advice included shifting most of my cities to working as many food-rich tiles as possible, and breaking up my Worker pairs. The latter takes some getting used to, as I still prefer to have them work in pairs; when I move on onto another tile, I sometimes lose track of him and have to spend time figuring out where his erstwhile partner is supposed to go. But it does, indeed, save a Worker turn here and there, so it seems like a better way to manage the Workers even if it requires more micro-managment.

And I decided to finally trade away Horseback Riding.

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Obtaining Sailing allowed me, on the following turn, to obtain Calendar.

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A few turns later, I made another trade, a seemingly lopsided one at first glance.

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But if you check the score display at lower right, you can see that I knew Suryavarman was researching Currency and was close to completion. In addition, he had 100 gold in his treasury but as you can see above was not willing to part with all of it. So this was the best deal I was going to get. And it worked out in another regard: on the next turn, Sury had 9 GPT to trade, so he now has a supply of gold (not GPT, but gold the resource--confusing sometimes, isn't it?) from me.

I then noticed that many of my cities where approaching the ideal spot to whip their Madrassas to completion, so I switched to Slavery.

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Just after doing this, I gained access to another labour civic.

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I didn't switch to Caste System right away, though, since I still had some whippin' to do.

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My next Great Person appeared in Mecca:

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Normally I'm delighted to get one of the very rare and elusive Great Engineers, but I'm not sure what to do with this guy. The only unbuilt wonder I have access to right now is Chichen Itza--ugh. I guess it would tie in well with the Protective trait, but I still think it sucks as wonders go. I suppose I could build it in Najran to assist its culture, but still--it seems like a real waste of a GE to me.

As you can see the GE will lightbulb Metal Casting--which would take me all of 9 turns to research, so that seems far from optimal either. I could settle him, I suppose... but I'm thinking the best use for him would be to research MC on my own and then use him to lightbulb Machinery. Thoughts?

With my whipping done, I switched to my newly-available civic:

ALC22_385AD_10.jpg


I'll probably still switch into Slavery every now and then, however. Normally, when playing as a non-Spiritual leader, this is when I'd wave Slavery buh-bye. But I am Spiritual this time, and in addition, I've got an army to build, especially thanks to my next tech.

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And I ended the round there, pending advice on what to research next, how to use the GE, how the builds in my cities are doing, etc. I chose Civil Service kind of automatically as my next tech, but while writing up the round I thought of the MC -> Machinery from the GE possibility, so I may switch to Metal Casting at the beginning of the next round if most of us agree that's the best way to go.

Here's a look at the Domestic Advisor:

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I anticipate switching to all-military builds shortly--stables in a couple of cities, then War Elephants, while the others focus on Catapults and Swordsmen (Kafah's borders popped and the iron will be hooked up in a few short turns).

I'm gradually shifting into more of a SE--I'm running a couple more specialists--but I need most of my cities to grow just a little more for them to be able to strike the right balance between food for continued growth and specialist support, hammers for production, and so on. Several of my cities are working food-free gold mine tiles, so that's propping up the slider, my economy, and research.

Foreign Advisor, Glance:

ALC22_385AD_13.jpg


Sury is now Pleased, which is nice, though I don't think with him it's any guarantee, while Roosevelt keeps alternating between cautious and annoyed--but he's kept the borders open and is willing to trade a tech now and then, as you've seen.

Current trade deals:

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Techs:


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Zara finished researching Machinery (yikes) and is now working on Engineering. Roosevelt, meanwhile, has just finished researching Feudalism. I'm hesitating about trading CoL for Monarchy since there's no wine on the map and I own the Pyramids so I don't need it to run HR (and I'm running Representation anyway). However, Monarchy does lead to other techs like Feudalism (Protective Longbows!) so I'm anxious to hear your advice here.

Power:

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So I'm hovering around the same level as Zara and Roosevelt, and Sury is way above us. I'm thinking he'll be itching to attack somebody soon, and I'm hoping its Roosevelt or even Zara rather than me. Zara does have a couple of cities up on the northeast coast that Sury might be tempted to attack, so who knows?

Demographics:

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Espionage:

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So the settled GSpy has clearly resulted in visibility into the AI's research and, in Zara's case, his cities long before I'd normally have such things apparent to me. As you may have noticed, I'm building a couple of Spies in anticipation of further leveraging this windfall.

The map of the continent:

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And of Arab territory, with a little more information on nearby AI cities thanks to explorations by my Scout and a spare Chariot--another beneficial recommendation from the ALC peanut gallery:

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There's room for 2-4 more cities in Arab territory, but as several of you suggested, I'm focusing on other things for now. I anticipate building up my military in the next round and attacking Zara, though he will be more advanced than me (Machinery for Crossbows, Engineering for Pikes and Trebs). But I think the next round will only go as far as a military build-up, then we'll discuss the best way to use it before putting it into the field.
 

Attachments

Didn't like your trades, well the horseback riding one in particular. Calendar resources are kind of minimal. If you get some nice techs, try to have suryvaraman to declare on roosevelt while you finish off zara. If you can sow some discontent, you might be able to do it for metal casting/machinery.
 
Hi

Thats the 1st thing I thought of too. Tech MC then use GE to lightbulb machinery=protective crossbows :)

Kaytie
 
I am bemused by your tech choices. You researched CoL despite not wanting to buiild its wonder, its courthouses and lacking the spare population to run a caste economy. You need construction and could have had several turns producing elephants and cats. You need forges to boost your bottom of the league production from metal casting. Researching MC and lightbulbing Machinery is making the best of the current situation - forges, crossbows and workshops

Wouldn't a market in Damascus make more sense, leaving Mecca to do the heavy building? Why wasn't a granary whipped in Gaul? Surely building an archer provides more benefit than waiting 125 turns for a Madrassa in Narjan?
 
Roosevelt and Zara don't look like they're going anywhere, so I think you should take some time and settle filler cities and grow. I'd get Forge, Madrassa, Courthouse, Barracks up everywhere, and get most or all of your hills worked, before you do a serious unit buildup. So I think you'd be attacking with Trebs, or at least Spies. Zara, at least, will have cheap Castles, which are no fun with just Cats.

So I like Civil Service for Bureau and irrigation. You could shift EPs to Zara and steal MC to open the Machinery bulb. I suggest micromanaging your EP allocation so that against Surya and Roosevelt you keep just ahead of the EPs you need to see their research.

There's no reason to trade COL now, but I think HBR+cash for Monarchy is a good deal. I'm not sure if you should do it now, or wait and see if you can get some kind of twofer, even for cash. But you'd have to keep a close watch and estimate when Roosevelt would sell HBR himself.
 
@scarredroman - I'd be inclined to agree with you if I thought he should attack fast. But for builder turns headed toward Bureaucracy, the things you criticized are all OK, except yes, I probably would have stayed in Slavery to whip that one Granary.
 
Sis started off with a bit of wonder-spam (not that unusual) followed by a bit of horizontal expansion and has only just got round to building madrassas and growing cities. I'd have thought that the next phase is developing the economy, producing a few more GPs and then building an up to date army.

Preparing for another war at this point doesn't seem very smart to me. Worst case scenario is you lose then get dog-piled: end of game. Best case scenario is you annihilate Zara, you'll have another half dozen cities and a decent size army with lots of promotions but facing obselence, and your economy goes down the pan while still owning only half the continent.
 
Frankly, I'm not too worried about our power. Both Zara and Roosevelt are within our reach on the power graph, and Sury, while ahead, is less likely to attack us than the other two (we're his best friends and have no close cities).

I'd go Civil Service -> MC-> GE for Machinery. The capital looks too good to pass on Bureaucracy, otherwise I'd have recommended delaying Civil Service. Sometimes when I'm playing an SE I go MC->Machinery->Engineering->Feudalism, with CS coming later, and run Vassalage instead of Bureaucracy, but here the capital has enough cottages to make CS a priority.

Also, I wouldn't trade Code of Laws right now, you'd only get one tech for it, and as you said a not very useful one. You'd also give the AIs another tech to trade between them. Not worth it. If you manage to pick Monarchy from an AI, and part of Metal Casting from a second AI, then you should consider trading it away. You'll eventually want Monarchy for Feudalism, but be patient.

All in all, we have a decent size (we're actually 1st in land and 2nd in population, not bad), which means in case of war we can "slave" our way out of trouble. Low production right now is due to working food tiles to grow, there's nothing to worry about. Maybe you'll use all that growth to whip courthouses at some point, they'd be pretty useful before starting a war. (not that we need to go to war in the near future) Good game so far, let's see the next round.
 
I rather like the idea of researching CS while building up EPs on Zara then sending my spies to steal MC. Sounds like the best way to leverage what we've done thus far--both building Mecca up to be a Bureaucracy capital, and settling that GSpy.

The advice to build more infrastructure (and maybe even another city or two) before going to war is also good. You know me and my itchy trigger finger... :twitch:
 
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