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All Things Star Wars

Sith or Jedi?

  • Sith

    Votes: 34 37.8%

  • Jedi

    Votes: 51 56.7%

  • Chuck Norris

    Votes: 5 5.6%
  • Total voters
    90
Authority? Have you watched any movie with Tatooine on it?
 
I am saying it is nominally considered part of the Republic but actually out of its administrative reach. I have literally said that like two days ago, if that much.
 
Commodore said:
Geonosis was a member of the Republic though. It was one of the worlds that eventually seceded from the Republic and joined the CIS. So the Republic invasion of Geonosis would be a counter-insurgency operation rather than a foreign intervention. Tatooine was controlled by the Hutts however, and the Hutt Empire was considered an independent political entity that was not a member of the Republic. The Republic did not claim any sovereign authority over Tatooine and this is evidenced by the fact that when the Republic wanted to use Tatooine as a base of operations for their Outer Rim campaign, they opened up formal negotiations with the Hutts rather than just storming in and setting up shop.
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But who says that Geonosis was part of the Republic? Only the Republic did, as far as I can. We never saw Geonosian delegates in the Senate, only Genosians in Genosian. Did all of the systems that participate in the the CIS even "declare independence", or did they assert an independence they understood as an established matter of fact? Again, we're largely getting the side of the Republic here, and if the issue is the coherence of the Republic's self-conception, we cite that same self-conception. Whether or not the Republic claims universal authority throughout the galaxy, it's likely that they imagine their authority far more expansively than is really the case.

Negotiating with the Hutts might simply represent pragmatism on the part of the Republican military leadership, who don't have the luxury of a politicians self-delusion. Consider that American military leaders have often negotiated with tribal leaders in the Levant, in Central Asia and in South-East Asia, but that didn't amount to a formal recognition of independence, even when the negotiations were carried out on an assumption of de facto independence, or at least autonomy.
 
And here I thought the whole business of Watto and the credits was a case of Mom & Pop's don't take debit. :crazyeye:
 
Traitorfish said:
But who says that Geonosis was part of the Republic? Only the Republic did, as far as I can. We never saw Geonosian delegates in the Senate, only Genosians in Genosian
Click to expand...

My guess would be they were represented in the Senate by the Trade Federation since Geonosis hosted a massive Trade Federation droid production facility and would thus considered one of their client worlds.

Traitorfish said:
Did all of the systems that participate in the the CIS even "declare independence"
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I don't know if ALL of them declared independence, but the major contributors and leaders of the CIS certainly did. The Trade Federation, Commerce Guild, Techno Union, and Intergalactic Banking Clan all formally declared their intention was to leave the Republic and take all the worlds under their control with them.

As a side note, I think it's kinda funny that the separatist movement was pretty much just a corporate rebellion that only wanted independence so they didn't have to be bound by any galactic regulations and could be free to exploit people and resources to their hearts' content.

Traitorfish said:
Consider that American military leaders have often negotiated with tribal leaders in the Levant, in Central Asia and in South-East Asia, but that didn't amount to a formal recognition of independence, even when the negotiations were carried out on an assumption of de facto independence, or at least autonomy
Click to expand...

But those territories aren't under US control, which is why we negotiated with them. A more apt analogy would be the fact that we don't negotiate with Puerto Rico or Guam if we want to put a military base there since we consider those places to be under our sovereign control. If the Republic considered Tatooine to be under their control, they wouldn't have negotiated terms, they would have just started landing troops and building fortifications.

You do make a good point about pragmatism though. Even if the Republic did see Tatooine as their territory, they would still want to negotiate with the Hutts because Tatooine definitely seems like the kind of place where the Republic would face a protracted, resource-draining insurgency if they stormed onto the planet like a conquering army and disrupted the Hutt criminal operations in any way.

Thorvald of Lym said:
And here I thought the whole business of Watto and the credits was a case of Mom & Pop's don't take debit. :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

Well, it is that. However, the reason the "Mom & Pops don't take debit" on Tatooine is because they can't spend Republic credits or put them back into their business since it is not recognized as a valid currency on Tatooine. So allowing someone to purchase something with Republic credits on Tatooine would essentially be like giving your goods or services away for free.
 
JohannaK said:
I am saying it is nominally considered part of the Republic but actually out of its administrative reach. I have literally said that like two days ago, if that much.
Click to expand...

Qui-Gon states in Ep I that Tatooine was “controlled by the Hutts.” And thought their empire was gone, Hutt Space was still a thing.

I always too Padme’s Republic anti-slavery rant as to show here as being incredibly naïve and having absolute faith in her Republic. A parallel would be a young EU politician from Luxemburg visiting Macedonia or Georgia (or worse Abkhazia or Transnistria) and having their mind blown at how little power “Europe” has in Europe.

Traitorfish said:
But who says that Geonosis was part of the Republic? Only the Republic did, as far as I can. We never saw Geonosian delegates in the Senate, only Genosians in Genosian. Did all of the systems that participate in the the CIS even "declare independence", or did they assert an independence they understood as an established matter of fact? Again, we're largely getting the side of the Republic here, and if the issue is the coherence of the Republic's self-conception, we cite that same self-conception. Whether or not the Republic claims universal authority throughout the galaxy, it's likely that they imagine their authority far more expansively than is really the case.
Click to expand...

One of the better parts of the Clone Wars CGI-show was a two parter (I think) where Ahsoka gets to see CIS civilians and politicians from the Separatists planets and get a sense of their agency in the conflict. They have their own CIS senate, participate in military operations, and carry on negotiations. It’s the first good glimpse into the idea that the Separatists conflict as an internal Republic issue that the Sith took advantage of and steered it off course for their own ends.

Of course, in true Clone Wars/Rebels, the bad guys have to always be solidly black-no grey here-bad guys, by the end of the story its shown that rather than having legitimate grievances against the Republic and fight for their cause, it’s shown that *shockingly* Count Dooku has manipulated all these good people into being temporarily evil! And the moment they try discover it, they try to get back in good with the Republic.

It reminds me of a conversation I had with Dachs a few years back. We were discussing whether or not the CIS could have militarily won the Clone Wars, and after a bit he remarked that it’s a non-question. The CIS was never gonna be allowed to win by the Sith, it was designed to lose. And even if you remove the Sith from their positions in the Republic and CIS, it would become such a fundamentally different war that it again makes the question moot.
 
Commodore said:
As a side note, I think it's kinda funny that the separatist movement was pretty much just a corporate rebellion that only wanted independence so they didn't have to be bound by any galactic regulations and could be free to exploit people and resources to their hearts' content.
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Never mind the dark religious/aristocratic cult pulling their strings from the shadows.
 
ffs just realized I was in line for ROUGE ONE instead of Rogue One

ZzYErLo.png
 
It's never too late to learn about make-up, my good man.
 
warpus said:
I don't get all the people who want to see this on the opening night. Isn't it going to be crazy? I'm waiting a week at least and seeing it earlier in the day sometime, as to avoid all the lines, crowds, and noise
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Well I'm going opening weekend not opening night, but for me its more about going out to the movies with my entire family, siblings, kids, nieces, nephews, in laws... all of us together sharing in multi-generational Star Wars fandom... otherwise, yeah I could skip opening weekend as its too crowded.
 
warpus said:
I don't get all the people who want to see this on the opening night. Isn't it going to be crazy? I'm waiting a week at least and seeing it earlier in the day sometime, as to avoid all the lines, crowds, and noise
Click to expand...

Opening is about the only time I'll be able to see it, and waiting brings too many risks of spoilers unfortunately. The only reason I'm getting away with having not seen the Gilmore Girls revival is because it isn't as wildly popular as Star Wars. If it were, I imagine it'd have been spoiled to me already.
 
Vincour said:
Opening is about the only time I'll be able to see it, and waiting brings too many risks of spoilers unfortunately. The only reason I'm getting away with having not seen the Gilmore Girls revival is because it isn't as wildly popular as Star Wars. If it were, I imagine it'd have been spoiled to me already.
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LoLs... I was binge watching that yesterday.:) I won't spoil.
 
So what? Rogue One Spoiler alert: They steal the Death Star plans at the end. :p

Seriously, it's never about what happens, it's about the way. I almost always go in knowing what to expect and I haven't believed my experiences to be diminished any time.
 
JohannaK said:
So what? Rogue One Spoiler alert: They steal the Death Star plans at the end. :p

Seriously, it's never about what happens, it's about the way. I almost always go in knowing what to expect and I haven't believed my experiences to be diminished any time.
Click to expand...
I was 6 and 9 years old when I saw Star Wars and Empire the first time, and I had no idea that...
Spoiler :
Carrie Fisher and Harrison Ford were sleeping together. No idea. I feel totally blindsided.
 
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