Alternate History Thread II...

[das]

It's tiny compared to the Muslim world.

Maybe, but its not fighting the whole bloody Dar al-Islam, only a small fraction of it.

Dark Age is so... depressing.

Not for me.

They were supporting advanced civilizations in 1000 BCE at least. I'd imagine a unified state might be able to hold together.

The "s" in "civilizations" being the key, sort of. Infrastructure could be built up, but the terrain and thus the culture is quite diverse, there is a good reason few lasting empires were built there in the ancient ages.

Here's one to boggle your minds.

Alright... After reading what you posted thus far, I have come to the conclusion that the PoD is Central Asian, and involves a man named Yamin Al-Daula Abu`l-Qasim Mahmud ibn Sebuktigin. Or the absence thereof.

Then again, if South-East Asia means South-East Asia, that makes no sense altogether and thus is something else probably involving a weaker Ceylon.

Louis XVI was one butt ugly king.

Too bad for him, because we're talking about his grandpa.

It reformed its Government, Granting Hannibal the title of Emperor

Um... why would they do that? The most logical thing to do would be to kill him before he has any chances of coming back from the campaign; although, he could start a monarchist Barakid coup, in which case that works.

The language was integrated and influenced heavily by Greek and Latin, and would develop a language of Latinized Punic.

Not likely, the Italian provinces are rather backwards and faraway. You don't see OTL Latin being Poenicized just because Romans conquered Carthage, do you?

Emperor Hannibal was a very smart very wise strategist. He began securing the Trading posts of Carthage and establishing cities there. By 196 B.C.E, Hannibal had secured cities and colonies as far south as Senegal. Hannibal’s brilliant domestic policies

Not sure about his OTL domestic skills, but wasting money on expeditions and city-building "as far south as Senegal" is rather stupid of him, IMHO. Carthage didn't need any expansion beyond Western Mediterranean, if anything it could only be harmful to its basic interests.

Then in 163 B.C.E, an aging Hasdrubal wanted to have a legacy, so he amassed a large army of Carthaginian Infantry, Elephants and Mercenaries and attacked Egypt.

Any real reasons apart from "wanting a legacy"? IMHO Egypt would be rather untenable (too many new enemies, too easy to conquer, to lucrative for it to be ignored), and thus only a waste of Carthage's resources.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I have a question for you masters of althistory - how early in history can we let printing become widespread, and how long will history remain stable?

OTL, printing appears in the 1500s.

If we move it back to the 1000s, Europe gets sacked by Vikings, Muslims and Mongols nevertheless, and printing will take quite a while to spread. Off in China, printing appeared maybe as early as the 500s.

Printing around year zero means much more reliable and reprintable copies of the Bible, which could change history quite a lot.

So how far back can printing appear?

How about... 3500 years ago?

 

[das]

OTL, printing appears in the 1500s.

15th century, actually.

THEORETICALLY, it could be invented quite early. And indeed, very possibly it was. The problem is that of it actually being useful, and thus - being used. In the 15th century, it took a general intellectual rise combined with the rise of buerocracy and protocapitalism to stimulate this development (as was the case in China, to a certain extent anyway, though alex will probably correct me here).

 

[Erik Mesoy]

15th century, actually.

I'm perfectly aware that it was invented in the 1490s. Hence "appears", as we also can't be sure over when it was 'actually' invented, as I was demonstrating.

THEORETICALLY, it could be invented quite early. And indeed, very possibly it was.

Whaddya mean, "very possibly"? I just showed you a case of printing from somewhere between 1800 and 1400 BC!

The problem is that of it actually being useful, and thus - being used.

For an althistory, all we need is a scribe who uses the stamps two or three more times and printing is off to a running start, what with [it] already having movable type.

 

[das]

all we need is a scribe who uses the stamps two or three more times and printing is off to a running start

Not really. What is the practical use of it, as of the 11th century?

 

[Disenfrancised]

Whaddya mean, "very possibly"? I just showed you a case of printing from somewhere between 1800 and 1400 BC!For an althistory, all we need is a scribe who uses the stamps two or three more times and printing is off to a running start, what with [it] already having movable type.

Whats is the printable surface going to be? Clay tablets are rather unwieldy...Papyrus*? Parchment? Paper invented early? All of those have later supposed invention dates than the Phaistos Disc so you might not see a printing revolution till later (unless of course the Alt-history has them invented earlier as well).

 

[das]

I think he was talking about the 11th century, originally anyway.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I was talking about how far back it's reasonably plausible for printing to appear, thus giving informational civili[s/z]ation a kick in the pants.

 

[North King]

Alright... After reading what you posted thus far, I have come to the conclusion that the PoD is Central Asian, and involves a man named Yamin Al-Daula Abu`l-Qasim Mahmud ibn Sebuktigin. Or the absence thereof.

Then again, if South-East Asia means South-East Asia, that makes no sense altogether and thus is something else probably involving a weaker Ceylon.

It's South East Asian. The PoD directly affects the Australiasian zone of "Indonesia", and goes on to induce greater political unity in southern India, and the greater Malay peninsula.

The premise is that the Chola invasion of Srivijaya in c. 1020 goes better, and the latter is completely destroyed, with the Chola gaining (temporary) commercial supremacy over the Straits of Malacca.

 

[Kentharu]

Kentharu... firstly, that's a very different Hitler. Secondly, if he is just a painter, how does he affect the downfall of Drexler's party, and how is it overthrown without even coming to power? Thirdly, any such "FGSS" would simply be destroyed by civil war, the military would not allow this sort of stuff.

just remember this
how would the military not allow it?
and Hitler became a painter, yes, however he still became political, on the other side of the spectrum though, the socialist side. We all know that Hitler was a great speaker and his speechs got much more support then anyone else's would have. Remember that one event can change a variety of things.

 

[Insane_Panda]

Too bad for him, because we're talking about his grandpa.

I mixed up the letters. XIV is butt ugly too! The Bourbons, as a general rule, weren't such attractive monarchs.

 

[Insane_Panda]

and Hitler became a painter, yes, however he still became political, on the other side of the spectrum though, the socialist side. We all know that Hitler was a great speaker and his speechs got much more support then anyone else's would have. Remember that one event can change a variety of things.

Hitler hated abstract art. He thought it degrading.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Das, the list your going to do for Paneda, may I see it as well please.

 

[das]

how would the military not allow it?

By launching a military coup d'etat, duh.

Hitler hated abstract art. He thought it degrading.

You have to admit that, for all the other things that might be said about Hitler, he did have a good taste.

 

[Insane_Panda]

You have to admit that, for all the other things that might be said about Hitler, he did have a good taste.

Oui. Tu as raison.

 

[Kentharu]

By launching a military coup d'etat, duh.

why?

Hitler hated abstract art. He thought it degrading

yet again, it is an ALT-history things will be different...

 

[das]

why?

To save Deutschland from undue, corrupting socialist influence, duh. And to, as a completely unintended sideffect, take the power for themselves. But I think that the German generals will agree to make such a sacrifice.

yet again, it is an ALT-history things will be different...

Why call him Hitler then, if he is everything Hitler is NOT?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Because it's amusing to see historical figures acting totally un-historically probably.

 

[das]

Still, its not Hitler. Go get some OTL left-wing abstractionist into politics instead. Or just have Thalmann.

 

[Kentharu]

Iggy got it right, it is supose to be funny if i named him something else it would be funny now would it

i purposefully named things to be funny, the UN
what i could do is put an OTL left wing with Hitler, who influences him and all that plus the army did not neccessarily have to coup, words can change a lot and Hitler was a great orator, he would have spoken to the military myriad of times

however ill say this again if i haven't before, this is just a rough idea of what will happen, ill add in the detail later

thanks das you got me thinking