Alternate History Thread III

[das]

Besides, it\'s not as though Czechoslovakia affords the Nazi Germans any real advantage that Silesia doesn\'t give them.

Well, Slovakia might; but the logistics there are going to be so horrible (not a very developed area, with difficult terrain, potential resistance and likely enemy preemptive moves as soon as the Germans move into Czechia) that its most likely to backfire horribly.

 

[Symphony D.]

Rightly so indeed - I can\'t see many reasons for attempting a flank attack on anything but the tactical level of warfare. Strategically, flanking someone means that you
a) divide your forces, enabling the enemy to concentrate against each separate unit and defeat them in detail
b) simply change the line of expectation (if you use your entire army), offering no real change in the relative situation
c) robs you of the possibility of moving on the enemy\'s rear or lines of communications, which would be a far more potent threat and one which would probable be less costly to your own troops
d) waste time

I would disagree with this in detail if only because it neglects the potential of strategic flanks which do none of the above: the amphibious invasion in an unexpected area. Normandy and Inch'on are perfect examples. They're not conventional flanks (in attacking the enemy one place to distract him) but they are flanks as regards hitting an enemy in an unexpected location, and are conducted on a strategic scale; their execution can radically alter an entire war, not just a battle.

 

[Symphony D.]

In the realm of the absurd, going back to the idea of a Conspiracy NES: Cthulu Mythos Cold War NES.

 

[Dachs]

I would disagree with this in detail if only because it neglects the potential of strategic flanks which do none of the above: the amphibious invasion in an unexpected area. [...] They\\\'re not conventional flanks (in attacking the enemy one place to distract him) but they are flanks as regards hitting an enemy in an unexpected location, and are conducted on a strategic scale; their execution can radically alter an entire war, not just a battle.

robs you of the possibility of moving on the enemy\\\'s rear or lines of communications, which would be a far more potent threat and one which would probable be less costly to your own troops

If you aren\\\'t opposed, you hit them in the rear! Inchon is a perfect example of severing the Inmun Gun\\\'s line of communications and thusly annihilating an entire army!

You\\\'re using the concept of a \\\"flank position\\\" as defined by Clausewitz, i.e. \\\"any position that doesn\\\'t face the enemy\\\'s front\\\". I\\\'m using it as anything not flank or rear. Personally, I\\\'d rather be on the enemy\\\'s rear instead of a flank - but if we use the Clausewitz definition, then we are in agreement.

Slovakia might

Why? An overextended flank, trapped in a mountain range to which it is rather more difficult to get supplies than through the mountains? Having a position through which one can send tanks around the advancing Red Army\\\'s flank to debouch into their rear is one thing, but being in danger of being easily cut off is another. Besides, by the time the Germans are in sufficient control of Slovakia to mount further operations, the Soviets will be fairly close to Berlin, and exerting pressure against East Prussia (if it hasn\\\'t already been overrun) and the Oder Quadrilateral. That, and if the Germans don\\\'t scruple to violate Czechoslovak neutrality, what makes you think that the Sovs won\\\'t contest the territory from the outset, dooming both sides to a grinding, pointless mountain campaign?

 

[das]

Why? An overextended flank, trapped in a mountain range to which it is rather more difficult to get supplies than through the mountains? Having a position through which one can send tanks around the advancing Red Army\\\'s flank to debouch into their rear is one thing, but being in danger of being easily cut off is another. Besides, by the time the Germans are in sufficient control of Slovakia to mount further operations, the Soviets will be fairly close to Berlin, and exerting pressure against East Prussia (if it hasn\\\'t already been overrun) and the Oder Quadrilateral. That, and if the Germans don\\\'t scruple to violate Czechoslovak neutrality, what makes you think that the Sovs won\\\'t contest the territory from the outset, dooming both sides to a grinding, pointless mountain campaign?

Thats basically a more detailed version of what I already said after those two words. I think the idea was that from Slovakia one could take Cracow in a surprising maneuver, then attack north to pocket the Soviet troops in western Poland, in coordination with the other German troops. Ofcourse that would be way too impossible to pull off. It is simply is the only reason such an attack might be attempted that I could possibly come up with. Doesn't make it any less ridicilous.

 

[Israelite9191]

Here is the next instalment. The PoD is in blue and changes are in green. Comments, questions, and criticism are highly appreciated. In particular I would appreciate thoughts on how to develop the various Lollard heresies. Up to now I have had them develop rather peacefully, but I am not sure if it could last or for how long. Any suggestions?
​

The Age of Elisabeth – Timeline​

Spoiler Installment 1 :

1343 –
1.) Robert the Wise Angevine, King of Naples, King of Jerusalem, Count of Provence-Forcalquier becomes seriously ill.
2.) Elisabeth, Queen Mother of Hungary, arrives in Italy campaigning on behalf of her elder son, Louis I the Great Angevine, King of Hungary, Croatia, and Dalmatia to take the throne in place of her younger son Andrew, Duke of Calabria, heir to the Neapolitan throne.
3.) Robert dies.
4.) Pope Clement VI takes the side of Louis and Elisabeth over Andrew.
1344 –
1.) Louis I the Great Angevine, King of Hungary, is crowned King of Naples, King of Jerusalem, and Count of Provence-Forcalquier.
2.) Louis I and Stefan II Kotromanić, Ban of Bosnia, invade Zara declaring war on Venice. Zara is conquered and the Banate of Dalmatia is united with that of Bosnia as a reward to Kotromanić. The Republic of Ragusa is founded under Hungarian hegemony.
1345 – 1347 –
1.) Louis I, with significant aide from Kotromanić, campaign in the Herzegovinan principalities and Cumania (Wallachia and Moldavia) with significant success.
1347 –
1.) Kotromanić invades Serbia on pretenses of aiding dynastic relatives in Montenegro gain independence. Louis I joins and the War of Montenegrin Independence begins officially on May 20.
2.) Albania rises in revolt under Charles Angevine, Duke of Durazzo, cousin to Louis I of Hungary, and legal claimant to the Albanian throne.
3.) The Battle of the Zeta takes place on July 3. Combined Hungarian, Bosniak, Montenegran, and Albanian forces crush the Serb military.
4.) The Treaty of Belgrade is signed ending the war. The treaty is signed by a collective of Serb lords in place of Stefan Dušan, who has fled to exile in Bulgaria. Serbia becomes a Banate of Hungary under Charles, who also becomes the Prince of Albania.
5.) Balša I is crowned king of the newly independent Montenegro.
6.) Balša I and his three sons and heirs die under mysterious contexts. Kotromanić becomes the logical heir and is crowned king of Montenegro.
1349 –
1.) An assassination attempt organized by Charles I, Prince of Albania on the life of Louis I, who had only female heirs which would have allowed Charles to place a claim to the throne, is uncovered by Kotromanić. Charles is seized and executed by Hungarian forces and Louis I, the logical heir, takes the Albanian throne.
1351 –
1.) Louis I re-releases the Golden Bull of 1222, guaranteeing the rights of Hungarian nobility.
1352 –
1.) The Moldavian Voivodeship is founded out of Cummania by Louis I. Dragoş of Béltek Maramureş is sent by Louis I to establish a line of boundary against the Golden Horde. Dragoş continues the campaign extending Moldavia to the Dneister River.
1353 –
1.) Tvrtko I becomes Ban of Bosnia and King of Montenegro.
1354 –
1.) Byzantine Emperor John V Palaeologos appeals to Hungary for aide against the Ottomans. Louis I responds by sending a moderate force under Tvrtko, marking Hungarian entrance into the War of Adrianople.
1355 –
1.) Kazimierz Wielki III, King of Poland names Louis I, his nephew, as his successor.
2.) The War of Adrianople stalls and John V appeals for more help. Louis responds by sending another small army followed by a second soon there after.
1356 –
2.) The War of Ardrianople turns in favor of the Byzantines with The Fourth Battle of Adrianople. Most of the Hungarian forces, including Tvrtko, return home.
1358 –
1.) The War of Adrianople turns again, this time in favor of the Ottomans, with The Sixth Battle of Adrianople. John V does not request aide.
1359 –
1.) The Ottomans win the seemingly decisive Battle of Pentikion. John V seeks aide from Louis I but is denied.
2.) John V seeks aide again, pledging to hand over all Byzantine territory as far south as Kavala in Greece excepting the Golden Horn and Gallipoli. Louis I responds by personally leading a large force.
3.) Bâlc Maramureş assumes the Voivodeship of Moldavia.
4.) Bogdan of Cuhea raises a revolt in Moldavia. Bâlc flees into Transylvania and requests help from Esztergom, which sends a small force to prevent Bogdan from entering Transylvania, but nothing more.
5.) Proclamation of the first Orthodox Romanian Metropolitan Church in Wallachia.
1359 – 1360 –
1.) A series of decisive battles takes place between the Magyaro-Byzantine forces and the Ottomans culminating in The Eighth Battle of Adrianople. The Ottomans return to Anatolia.
1360 –
1.) Louis I redirects his attention and leads a large number of troops into Moldavia, crushing the fledgling rule of Bogdan and reinstating Bâlc as vovoide. Bogdan flees to Walachia.
1361 –
1.) The Hungarian capital is moved by Louis I to Buda from Esztergom (Gran).
2.) Louis I invades Bulgaria.
1362 –
1.) Louis I defeats and captures Ivan Stratsimir, Tsar of Bulgaria, securing northern Bulgaria.
2.) Pope Urban V succeeds Pope Innocent VI in Avignon.
1363 –
1.) Byzantium wins the naval Battle of Megara against the Ottoman Turks.
2.) Epirus revolts against Byzantium, establishing a greater level of independence while the Byzantines are distracted defending against the Ottomans.
3.) Tvrtko invades and conquers Epirus, crowning himself Despot of Epirus.
1365 – 1370 –
1.) Louis I initiates a series of successful wars against Wallachia and Bulgaria. Wallachia is conquered in 1368, Bulgaria remains independent.
1366 –
1.) Decree of Turda negates nobility rights of the Orthodox Romanians in Transylvania, Hungary.
1369 –
1.) Jan Huss is born in Bohemia.
1370 –
1.) Kazimierz Wielki III, King of Poland, dies and Louis I the Great Angevine, King of Hungary, Croatia, and Dalmatia is crowned King of Poland.
2.) Pope Gregory XI succeeds Pope Urban V in Avignon.

Spoiler Installment 2 :

1371 –
1.) Tsar Ivan Shishman is crowned as co-emperor with his brother Ivan Stratsimir by their father Tsar Ivan Alexander, the supreme emperor. Bulgaria is significantly weakened by the split.
1372 –
1.) Louis I invades a weakened Bulgaria.
1373 –
1.) Ottomans defeat the Byzantines decisively at the naval Battle of Lesbos.
2.) Ottomans begin the invasion of Greece, landing forces on the mainland.
3.) Siege of Thessaloniki, John V Palaeologos requests aide from Louis I of Hungary, the request is denied as Hungary is tied up in Bulgaria.
1374 –
1.) Philip II of Taranto passes, leaving the Principality of Taranto and the Principality of Achaea to James of Baux.
2.) Mária of Hungary Angevine is betrothed to Sigismund of Luxembourg despite the wishes of Elisabeth of Bosnia Kotromanić, Queen Consort of Hungary and mother of Mária.
1374 – 1376
1.) Magyaro-Bulgarian War stalls with Hungary controlling the inner half of Bulgaria.
2.) The Ottoman invasion of Greece carries on with minimal Byzantine resistance but significant peasant uprising. John V requests help from Hungary several times but is denied. He also requests help from the West but is likewise denied.
1376 –
1.) Andronicus IV Palaeologos seizes the Byzantine throne, with the aide of Genoese merchants, from John V Palaeologos. Murad I Osman, Bey of the Ottoman Empire, intervenes restoring his ally John V to the throne.
1377 –
1.) The Avignon Papacy returns to Rome under the leadership of Pope Gregory XI at the behest of Catherine of Sienna.
2.) Treaty of Santorini signed ending the war between the Ottomans and Byzantines. Greece is handed over to the Ottomans and the Ottomans pledge to guarantee the independence of Constantinople under Byzantine rule.
3.) Pope Gregory XI condemns John Wycliffe.
4.) Władysław II Jagiello succeeds to the Lithuanian throne and becomes sole ruler.
5.) Plovdiv falls in late November. Bulgaria incorporated into the Hungarian Empire.
1378 –
1.) John Wycliffe attempts to defend his theses before the English public.
2.) Holy Roman Emperor Charles IV of Luxembourg dies. His son Wenceslaus IV the Drunkard, Elector of Brandenburg, succeeds him as King of Bohemia and King of Germany. He is elected King of the Romans.
3.) Papacy permanently moved to Rome.
4.) Pope Urban VI elected Pope under pressure from the Roman mob.
5.) Antipope Clement VII elected at Fondi, establishes himself in Avignon. Western Schism begins.
6.) Louis I intervenes on behalf of Urban VI. He leads a large force into Italy while sending Tvrtko to lead a force in Provence, a holding of the Hungarian crown since merger with the Neapolitan crown, to besiege Avignon.
7.) France intervenes, sending a force to clash with the Hungarian one.
1379 –
1.) War of the Papal Schism continues with Hungarian and French forces clashing in Italy and Provence. Both sides make advances but neither is able to gain the upper hand.
2.) Radu I, titular Prince of Wallachia, and his son Dan I, titular heir to the Princedom of Wallachia, raise a revolt against Hungary. Forces under the loyal Bâlc Maramureş, Voivode of Moldavia, are sent to suppress the rebellion. They meet moderate success before being forced to retreat by lack of supplies.
1380 –
1.) Battle of Milan takes place between Hungarian lead pro-Urban forces and French led pro-Clement forces. The battle ends in a draw with both sides retreating from Northern Italy to lick their wounds.
2.) The War of the Papal Schism continues in Provence with minor gains by Tvrtko.
1381 –
1.) The Peasants’ Revolt takes place in England. As a result Wycliffe grows more unpopular among the elite.
2.) Kęstutis Alexander seizes the Grand Dukeship of Lithuania.
3.) The War of Chioggia comes to an end with Venice defeating Genoa.
4.) France launches a new offensive in Northern Italy. They are opposed by a weakened Venice.
5.) England enters the War of the Papal Schism in Northern France with a large invasion.
6.) Brittany revolts, siding with Pope Urban VI and joining England and Hungary.
7.) Second Battle of Milan takes place. French forces are soundly defeated by a Venice-lead alliance of pro-Urban Italian city states supported by Hungarian florins. France retreats from Italy.
8.) Battle of Kermartin takes place. Anglo-Breton forces defeat French forces.
9.) Battle of Évreux is fought between the English and French. French win a crushing victory through superior tactics. English retreat to stronger positions west of the Orne.
1382 –
1.) Battle of Orange is fought in Provence. Forces under the leadership of Tvrtko decisively crush French troops. Tvrtko marches on and lays siege to Avignon.
2.) Avignon falls. Clement VII and the rebel cardinals are executed en masse. Pope Urban VI is reinstated as the Holy Father for all of Catholic Christendom.
3.) Synod of London condemns the teaching of Wycliffe.
4.) Treaty of Genoa signed by all involved parties. Provence is made a duchy independent of France, Brittany is made fully independent, and England takes control of much of northern France.
5.) Trieste donates itself to Hungary out of fear of being conquered by Venice.
6.) Louis I the Great Angevine, King of Hungary, Croatia, and Dalmatia, King of Naples, King of Jerusalem, Duke of Provence-Forcalquier, Prince of Albania, King of Poland, dies. His eldest daughter Mária inherits the throne. At the behest of her mother, Elisabeth of Bosnia, she immediately dismisses her betrothal to Sigismund. Elisabeth organizes Tvrtko’s placement as co-regent.
7.) Kęstutis Alexander, Grand Duke of Lithuania is taken prisoner and executed by the former Grand Duke, Władysław II Jagiełło, who regains the crown.
1383 –
1.) James Baux, Prince of Taranto and Prince of Achaea, dies. Mária seizes the principality of Taranto, a fief of Hungary. Charles II of Durazzo the Short Angevine inherits Achaea.
2.) Stefan Tvrtko I Kotromanić, Ban of Bosnia and King of Montenegro and Mária wed at the urging of Elisabeth of Bosnia. Tvrtko receives the titles and holdings of Louis I.
3.) The Teutonic Crusades against Lithuania recommence.
4.) The Orthodox Romanian nobles in Transylvania are restored to their positions by Trvrtko.

Spoiler Installment 3a :

1384 –
1.) John Wycliffe dies.
2.) Afyonkarahisar is secured. The Ottomans now rule all of western Anatolia.
1385 –
1.) Tvrtko sends Bâlc Maramureş, Voivode of Moldavia, to lead an invasion of Wallachia. After a serious of minor defeats he wins the decisive Battle of Târgovişte both Prince Dan I Basarab and his son Mircea I Basarabare killed in the fighting. The voivodeship is awarded to the Maramureş family for their service.
1386 – 1390 –
1.) Tvrtko and Maria institute a series of reforms, consolidating power in the Crown of St. Stephen and weakening the Hungarian nobility.
1388 –
1.) The Wycliffe Bible completed.
2.) Mass persecution of Lollard followers of Wycliffe’s teachings begins.
1389 –
1.) Pope Boniface IX succeeds Pope Urban VI in Rome.
1390 –
1.) Lords in southern Hungary raise a revolt demanding a re-issuing of the Golden Bull and an expansion of rights.
2.) Charles II the Short of Durazzo, Prince of Achaea, begins secretly financing the rebels.
3.) Vytautas the Great Gediminaičiai, claimant to the Lithuanian Grand Dukeship the raises a revolt against the current Grand Duke, Jogaila Gediminaičiai Jagiellon in alliance with the Teutonic Order.
4.) Tvrtko leads an army into the south, engaging the rebels in several battles but makes little headway.
1391 –
1.) The nobles secure several key positions.
2.) Charles of Durazzo reveals his intentions and begins sending Achaean troops to aide the rebels.
3.) Charles of Durazzo dies mysteriously, assassination is assumed and Elisabeth of Bosnia falls under suspicion.
4.) Vytautas allies with Muscovy.
5.) The Ottomans invade Achaea from their positions in the southern Peloponnesus. Achaea is slowly annexed into the Ottoman Empire, leaving all of Greece except the Duchy of Athens and some northern territory in Hungary under Ottoman rule.
1392 – 1393 –
1.) The nobles begin loosing ground to Royal forces under Tvrtko, until the last stand at the Battle of Hódvásárhely (modern Hódmezővásárhely, Csongrád, Hungary). The battle was short and the few forces that fought for the rebels in the battle mostly fled.
1392 –
1.) Vytautas defeats Jogaila and takes the Lithuanian throne.
2.) Elisabeth of Bosnia, Queen Mother of Hungary, dies of natural causes.
1394 – 1396 –
1.) Tvrtko embarks on a second series of internal reforms eliminating defunct fiefs and reducing the number of noble titles. This includes the incorporation of Bosnia, Croatia, Dalmatia, and Montenegro into the holdings of the Crown of St. Stephen.
1396 –
1.) The uneasy peace between France and England of the Treaty of Genoa is shakily secured with the marriage of Richard II Plantagenet, King of England, Titular King of France, and Lord of Ireland to Isabella of Valois, Princess of France.
2.) Charles VI the Mad Valois, King of France invades Genoa.
3.) Genoa soundly defeats the invading French force. France is forced to pay significant reparations.
4.) Charles VI turns up dead in his bead in the royal palace, assassinated. He has no male heirs and only one living female heir, Isabella of Valois, Queen Consort of England.
1397 –
1.) War of French Succession breaks out upon the death of Charles VI. Louis de Valois, Duke of Orléans claims the throne as does Richard II, whose wife is the closest thing to an obvious heir.
2.) England invades France with the intention of securing the French throne for the Plantagenets. Burgundy and most of the French fiefs side with Louis de Valois, while Brittany and a few French fiefs, in particular ones with lesser power, side with Richard II. For the time being Provence, under Hungarian rule, remains neutral.
3.) Milan sends troops to aid Louis, who is married to the duke’s daughter.
4.) Genoa, Venice, Florence, and Bologna, in a surprise alliance, invade Milanese territory. Milan is destroyed and the alliance marches on to France
5.) English troops defeat Valois troops at the Battle Lisieux, securing northern France up to the Seine.
6.) The Ottoman Empire finishes the conquest of Anatolia up to the Black Sheep and White Sheep Turkomans.
7.) Thomas Arundel appointed and then ousted as Archbishop of Canterbury.
1398 –
1.) English win the Battle of Diepe. All of Normandy is now under English control.
2.) Anglo-Breton forces are defeated by Valois forces in the Battle of Batz-sur-Mer. Breton borders are pushed up to Nantes itself.
3.) Italian troops march across the Alps to attack Orléans from behind. They are confronted by a Valois army and are soundly defeated.
4.) Teutonic Order raids into Lithuanian territory resume.
1399 –
1.) The war quiets down considerably for several months with both sides gathering forces.
2.) An extraordinarily large force of English, along with Italian supporters, arrives in Rouen’s docks. The force begins marching for Paris.
3.) Louis diverts vast amounts of troops towards Paris in order to confront English forces.
4.) The forces confront each other at The Battle of Argenteuil. The battle is long, the forces involved tremendous in number, and the list of casualties never-ending, but the English emerge victorious over the Valois by a seeming stroke of luck. The English march on to secure Paris.
5.) Provencal forces, under the leadership of Tvrtko, launch a surprise attack against Languedoc and southern French territory. Burgundy is simply to weak to defend itself and does not put up more than a small fight.
6.) After securing southern France Tvrtko happily offers to moderate a peace between the English alliance and the Valois faction.
7.) Mária Angevine, Queen Consort of Hungary, dies of natural causes.
8.) Battle of the Vorskla River won by the Golden Horde against Lithuania, which was led by Vytautas.
9.) Warlike John V the Conqueror Montfort, Duke of Brittany, dies, his peaceful son John VI the Wise Montfort ascends to the throne.

 

[Israelite9191]

Spoiler Installment 3b :

1400 –
1.) Treaty of Nantes signed. Richard II secures northern France, including Paris, and the title of King of France. Louis is given the title Grand Duke of France and sovereignty over the remnants of the French Kingdom. Provence is expanded to include all of southern France excluding English Bordeaux. Brittany is returned to pre-war borders and the title of Duke of Brittany changed to Grand Duke of Brittany to reflect the fully independent nature of the state. The Milanese territory is divided between Florence and Bologna with Genoa and Venice gaining maritime rights and minor land gains in Italy.
2.) Richard II returns to England, where an angry and officially exiled Henry Bolingbroke has him imprisoned and seizes his crown and titles.
3.) Thomas Arundel retakes his place as Archbishop of Canterbury.
4.) Welsh rebellion under Owain Glyndŵr begins with Owain declaring himself Prince of Wales.
5.) A series of squabbles over the Holy Roman Emperorship results with Wenceslaus the Drunkard Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, King of the Germans, and King of the Romans being deposed in favor of Rupert III, Elector Palatine, Count Palatine Zweibrücken, and King of the Germans.
6.) Timur defeats the Ottomans and Egyptians to capture Damascus.
7.) Timur conquers the Black Sheep Turkomans and Jalayirid Dynasty. The leaders of both seek safety among the Ottomans.
8.) Timur sacks Ottoman Sebaste (modern Sivas) in western Anatolia.

Spoiler Installment 4 :

1401 –
1.) Timur raises Baghdad.
2.) Passing of De hæretico comburendo Act in England and France by Henry IV at the behest of the anti-Lollard Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Arundel. English translations of the bible are now illegal and heresy now punishable by burning at the stake.
1402 –
1.) The Ottomans loose the Battle of Ankara to Timur. The following infighting between claimants to the Ottoman throne causes a stagnation of the Ottoman rise in power.
2.) A Scottish raiding army under the Earl of Douglas is defeated by the English under Sir Henry ‘Hotspur’ Percy at the Battle of Homildon Hill.
3.) The Canary Islands are colonized for Castile by Jean de Béthencourt on the orders of Henry III the Infirm Trastámara of Castile.
4.) The Welsh rebels are decisively victorious, destroying the enemy army, over the English, who outnumbered them nearly 2:1, at the Battle of Bryn Glas near the Anglo-Welsh border.
5.) The former Duke of Milan, Gian Galeazzo Visconti, dies from illness as he prepares a rebellion against Florence and Bologna.
6.) Vicenza is conquered by Venice.
1403 –
1.) A peasant uprising occurs in Paris and the surrounding countryside. Henry IV and his son leave with a large force for France.
2.) Sir Henry ‘Hotspur’ Percy rebels against Henry IV and allies with Owain Glyndŵr of Wales.
3.) Battle of Shrewsbury takes place in late July in the north of England. Rebel forces under Sir Henry Percy face off against royalist forces. The Cheshire archers prove decisive in holding off the much larger royalist force long enough for rebel Welsh reinforcements to arrive. The rebels emerge victorious.
4.) Jan Hus begins preaching Lollard inspired teachings in Bohemia.
5.) The rebellion in France is put down and Henry IV returns to England.
6.) Henry IV marries Joanna of Navarre née d’Évreux, former regent of Brittany and daughter of the Navarrese king, Charles II the Bad d’Évreux.
7.) While the Ottomans are absorbed by internal struggles the Byzantines make a grab for Ottoman territory in northern Greece but are “advised” against this by Tvrtko.
8.) Vytautas ends the Lithuanian-Muscovian alliance and captures Smolensk and Vyazma.
9.) Georgia recognizes Timur as suzerain.
1404 –
1.) Owain Glyndŵr secures a triple alliance between himself, Scotland, and Sir Henry Percy’s rebels against England. Parliamentary assemblies begin in Wales.
2.) Pope Innocent VII succeeds Pope Boniface IX in Rome.
3.) Stefan Tvrtko I Kotromanić, King of Hungary, King of Naples, King of Jerusalem, Grand Duke of Provence-Forcalquier, Prince of Albania, King of Poland, dies and is succeeded by his son Stefan Tvrtko II Kotromanić.
4.) Peace and alliance against Moscow is signed by Lithuania and the Teutonic Knights.
5.) The Battle of Shipton Moor results in a defeat at the hands of Henry IV of rebel troops under the leadership of Archbishop of York Richard le Scrope and Thomas Mowbray, Earl of Norfolk. The rebel troops retreat to better positions and join with forces under Sir Henry Percy.
1405 –
1.) Timur dies of fever while on campaign in China.
1406 –
1.) The Battle of Brassington is fought between the English rebels, Welsh rebels, and Scots on one side and the royal forces on the other. The royal forces are overwhelmed and the rebel alliance emerges victorious.
2.) Peace of Derby is signed. The independent Principality of Wales and Grand Duchy of Northumberland are recognized with the former under Owain IV the Great Glyndŵr, Prince of Wales and the Parliament of Wales and the later under Henry Hotspur Percy, Grand Duke of Northumberland. Man is secured as a definitively Scottish holding.
3.) Pope Alexander V succeeds Pope Innocent VII in Rome.
4.) Vytautas signs an alliance with the Novgorod Feudal Republic.
5.) Pisa falls to Florence.
1407 –
1.) The Grand Duchy of France invades that of Provence-Forcalquier.
2.) Tvrtko II responds by leading a large force into Provence.
1408 –
1.) Battle of Marseilles ends with a climactic clash between French and Provencal-Hungarian forces. Tvrtko II is killed be a random arrow in the back as Louis de Valois leads a surprise attack from behind. Hungarian forces are withdrawn from Provence.
2.) The death of Tvrtko II leads the ascension of Borić I the Young Kotromanić to the Hungarian throne and the regency of the Queen Mother Kujava née Radenović.
3.) The Treaty of Montpellier is signed by Kujava née Radenović, in the stead of Borić the Young as Duke of Provence-Forcalquier and Louis de Valois. Languedoc and other Provencal holdings outside of Provence’s own borders are handed over to the French Grand Duke.
4.) Vytautas is invited to become knyaz of the Novgorod Feudal Republic.
1409 –
1.) The Mac Carthy Mors and O’Briens of southern and Western Ireland lead a revolt against the English with support from the Scottish. The other de facto (some of them also de jure) independent clans of Ireland join the revolt.
2.) The Anglo-Irish lords, by now in large part Gaelicized, are convinced to join the rebellion at the Summit of Dingle, a holding of the rebel-friendly and Gaelicized FitzGerald clan.
3.) Battle of Kildare proves a victory for the Irish. Though not resulting in significant territory transfer, it does force Henry IV to go to Ireland with as much of an army as he could assemble to put the rebellion down.
4.) The Battle of Louth results in an English victory and the Irish rebels are pushed back from the Pale.
5.) The Battle of Tullamore proves a decisive rebel victory with Henry IV himself being killed in the fray.
6.) With absolutely no money to pursue the rebels, Henry V, the new King of England and King of France, is forced to sign the Treaty of Cork establishing the independent Royal Republic of Ireland.
7.) The Royal Republic of Ireland is formed with the Parliament, consisting of representatives of the rebel clans, the few remaining old kingdoms, and the Anglo-Irish lords, sitting in Cork.
1410 –
1.) The conquest of Sardinia is completed by the Aragonese.
2.) The Battle of Gulbene, one of the largest and bloodiest in medieval history, is fought in eastern Latvia between forces of the Teutonic Order and forces of Lithuania-Novgorod. Utilizing ingenious tactics, some of which were acquired from the Mongols, forces under the leadership of Vytautas the Great are decisively victorious over the Teutonic Knights.
3.) Pope Martin V succeeds Pope Alexander V in Rome.

1411 –
1.) Battle of Rapla is fought between Novgorodian and Teutonic forces in eastern Estonia. The already severely weakened Teutonic Knights stand no chance against the high moral of the Novgorodians and the battle is quickly and easily won for Novgorod.
2.) Forces of the Teutonic Order and the Lithuanian-Novgorodian alliance (mainly Lithuanians) meet at the Battle of Mažeikiai. The battle at first appears to be a real competition, but once cracks appeared in the Teutonic ranks they broke and the superior moral allowed the Lithuanians to break the enemy ranks.
1412 –
1.) The Valladolid Laws are passed in Spain placing severe restrictions on the civil rights of the Jewish population.
2.) The Peace of Turoń is signed by the Teutonic Order and the Lithuanian-Novgorodian alliance. The major Teutonic holdings in Livonia and Lithuania are split between the Novgorodians and Lithuanians leaving the Prussians with their holdings in Germany and Pomerania.
3.) Jan Hus condemns the practice of indulgences.
4.) Under papal order the Cardinal of St. Angelo takes action against Jan Hus.
5.) The Synod of Český Brod is held in Bohemia. The traditional Catholics, wishing to avoid a major confrontation, give into the Hussites by agreeing that condemnations can only be made with the agreement of the political leader of the concerned region.
1414 –
1.) Florence invades Sienna.
2.) Hussite Lollardy begins gaining dominance in Bohemia and spreading to neighboring regions in the Hungarian Empire and Austria.
1415 –
1.) Sienna falls to Florentine forces.
2.) The Church in England begins a crusade to eliminate Lollardism, including the burning of all works by Wycliffe and the systematic persecution and on occasion execution of nobles supporting the Lollards.
3.) A number of Lollard nobles flee to Northumberland to escape persecution.
1416 –
1.) Wenceslaus IV the Drunkard Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, gives full legal standing to Hussite Lollardism along with the Roman Catholic Church.
1417 –
1.) The Genoese-Florentine War begins with Florence invading Genoese holdings in the former Duchy of Milan.
2.) Siege of Genoa begins.
3.) So-called Celtic Reformation, inspired by Lollardy, begins in Ireland under the leadership of Sister Mary, Abbess of Kildare and a number of abbots around the countryside. Much of the nobility openly supports the movement.
4.) The Celtic Reformation begins to spread to Scotland.
5.) An assignation attempt by Sigismund Luxembourg, Margrave of Brandenburg, on the life of Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia is halted and Sigismund is executed.
6.) Ernest I and William III von Bayern-München, close allies of Sigismund, distance themselves from Sigismund by allying with the Hussite allies of Wenceslaus giving them freedom in Bavaria-Munich.
1419 –
1.) Father Jan Želivský leads Hussites in the First Defenestration of Prague.
2.) Genoese and Florentine diplomats sign the Treaty of La Spezia ending the war and creating the Most Serene Dual Republic of Florence-Genoa.
3.) Persecution of Lollards in England heightens.
4.) Celtic Reformation gains ground in Ireland and Scotland. Spreads to Man and Wales.
5.) Wenceslaus IV of Bohemia dies. His wife, Sofia of Bavaria, becomes Custodian of the Throne.
6.) Ernest I von Bayern-München is crowned King of Bohemia as the closest successor to the deceased Wenceslaus IV.
1420 –
1.) Portuguese rediscover and begin settling the Madeira Islands.
2.) Native Northumbrian nobility begins adopting Lollardy.
3.) Celtic Reformation continues spreading in Ireland, Scotland, Man and Wales. Begins to gain adherents in (English ruled) Cornwall.
1422 –
1.) Under pressure from the nobility, Henry II Percy, Grand Duke of Northumberland, adopts Lollardism as the state religion.
2.) Venice invades and conquers the remaining independent states of Northern Italy.
1424 –
1.) The Great Italian War breaks out with the Dual Republic invading Venetian holdings in the former Duchy of Milan and in the west of Italy.
2.) The forces meet in the Battle of Peschiera outside the town of Peschiera del Garda in western Veneto. After a drawn out battle in which the Venetians are successful for some time in defending the fortress, the superior numbers and technology of the Dual Republic win out.
3.) Padua is placed under siege. The city holds out for eight months before surrendering without bloodshed.
4.) The Synod of Canterbury is called for by English authorities to discuss Northumberland’s adoption of Lollardy. They decide to raise an army to crusade against Northumberland and to request of the pope to officially declare a crusade against Northumberland.
1425 –
1.) Forces of the Dual Republic reach the outskirts of the Venetian lagoon.
2.) The Venetian doge agrees to meet that of the Dual Republic in Padua so as to avoid the siege and possible destruction of Venice.
3.) The Treaty of Padua is signed by Venice and the Dual Republic, forming the Most Serene Republic of Italy.
4.) The pope refuses to officially declare a crusade, though he unofficially encourages the English to pursue an invasion of Northumberland.
1426 –
1.) English forces under John of Lancaster Plantagenet, Duke of Bedford set out for Northumberland with the intent of deposing the Grand Duchy and bringing it back under Roman Catholic control.
2.) English forces camped in Weardale near Wolsingham are surprised in a night attack from the high ground above the valley by Northumbrian troops. The Battle of Wolsingham is a massacre and the English are left devastated.
1427 –
1.) English sign the Treaty of Cornriggs. The English crown agrees to relinquish all claims to sovereignty over Northumberland and to legalize Lollardy. Northumberland in turn agrees to give Roman Catholicism the same rights as Lollardry.
2.) Ernest I von Bayern-München legalizes Lollardy in Bohemia under severe pressure from the merchants, peasantry, and Lollard clergy who now dominate. This is soon followed by the legalization of Lollardy in Bavaria.
3.) Celtic Reformed Catholicism is made the state religion of Ireland (Irish Reformed Church), Scotland (Scottish Reformed Church), and Wales (Welsh Reformed Church).
4.) Witch hunts begin in Switzerland.
5.) Diogo de Silves discovers the Azores Islands in the service of Portugal.

 

[jalapeno_dude]

In the future, do you think you could put the previous parts in a spoiler, so we can easily see what's new?

 

[alex994]

I dislike the victory of the rebels in England, though I have no reason why it shouldn't have happened alas

 

[Israelite9191]

In the future, do you think you could put the previous parts in a spoiler, so we can easily see what's new?

Will do.

I dislike the victory of the rebels in England, though I have no reason why it shouldn't have happened alas

Why wouldn't you like victorious rebels? Victorious rebels = weaker England = less future competition for China = stronger China.

 

[alex994]

But there's also a part of me that loves the English People and Nation! I'm a huge fan of Henry II and his attempts to centralize the English Monarchy only to have it all undone by his sons *sigh*

And non-victorious rebels would cement England's power on the continent and thus not turn England towards the sea but to the continent So basically either way, England could become less naval orientated. And you haven't said anything about China so far either

 

[Israelite9191]

And non-victorious rebels would cement England's power on the continent and thus not turn England towards the sea but to the continent So basically either way, England could become less naval orientated. And you haven't said anything about China so far either

Actually, its the reverse. With victorious rebels in Northumberland, the English will be forced to give up uniting England and redirect entirely to their continental holdings through their personal union with the Kingdom of France. And no, I havne't mentioned anything about China yet, mainly because I know very little about Chinese history in this time period and thus don't have the ability to project changes in Europe on to China.

 

[das]

2.) Hussite Lollardy begins gaining dominance in Bohemia and spreading to neighboring regions in the Hungarian Empire and Austria.

Questionable. It was very much a national movement.

1.) Wenceslaus IV the Drunkard Luxembourg, King of Bohemia, gives full legal standing to Hussite Lollardism along with the Roman Catholic Church.

Err... Before I complain, what exactly is the status of this "Hussite Lollardism", anyway? If it is a formally Catholic movement, then this would be highly redundant. If it is a fully independent Church openly flaunting Rome's authority, then such a compromise would be even more ridicilous.

1.) Father Jan Želivský leads Hussites in the First Defenestration of Prague.

Seems very out of the blue. Need more details here.

Also I must add that I severely detest such OTLishness.

2.) Genoese and Florentine diplomats sign the Treaty of La Spezia ending the war and creating the Most Serene Dual Republic of Florence-Genoa.

Again, more details please. How would that work? And why bother?

2.) Venice invades and conquers the remaining independent states of Northern Italy.

The Florentine rampage was bad enough but this is simply weird. Why pray tell would the Venetians, still a sea power, do that?

To sum up, things are getting interesting, but the events in Italy are going a bit too fast (usually someone attacking so many people there would have found a coalition of eevryone else assembled against him by the third year of his campaigns). I am also not sure if there are any real grounds for a Celtic Reformation, neither. Though I do admit that I could see Lollardy gaining significant support in Northumbria, if only out of spite.

 

[Israelite9191]

Questionable. It was very much a national movement.

Without the major oppositions faced in OTL (for instance no Hussite Wars) Hussite Lollardy is able to continue on its expansion. Also, do note that in OTL the Hussite heresy managed to expand beyond Bohemia into parts of Poland, Austria, Hungary, Croatia, and Southern Germany. This is not without presedence.

Err... Before I complain, what exactly is the status of this "Hussite Lollardism", anyway? If it is a formally Catholic movement, then this would be highly redundant. If it is a fully independent Church openly flaunting Rome's authority, then such a compromise would be even more ridicilous.

Hussite Lolardy is basically the Hussite Heresy. It does deny the supremacy of the Popes and Cardinals, and was for that reason condemned by the Church (though not in as splashy a way as OTL Constance). Since it is not traditional Roman Catholicism it requires legalization.

Seems very out of the blue. Need more details here.

Also I must add that I severely detest such OTLishness.

In OTL this event was a reaction against the anti-Hussite nobility, who still exist in TTL. The PoD by that point had not significantly changed the opinions of the Bohemian nobility as to prevent this occurence. The reaction to it was somewhat different, but the causes remain.

Again, more details please. How would that work? And why bother?

Genoa basically submits to a Florentine overlord but in order to save face is officially declared an equal member of a dual republic. For the Florentines it speeds up the whole process and prevents a long, drawn out war against an enemy that refuses to submit even after defeat.

The Florentine rampage was bad enough but this is simply weird. Why pray tell would the Venetians, still a sea power, do that?

Remember that in TTL the Venetians have already been turned from the sea due to loss of the Adriatic and have, along with their significant land holdings in Veneto, additional holdings in the former Duchy of Milan. It is only natural that Venice, seeing the Florentines growing in power so quickly, would seize what opportunities remained to maintain themselves as an Italian power.

To sum up, things are getting interesting, but the events in Italy are going a bit too fast (usually someone attacking so many people there would have found a coalition of eevryone else assembled against him by the third year of his campaigns). I am also not sure if there are any real grounds for a Celtic Reformation, neither. Though I do admit that I could see Lollardy gaining significant support in Northumbria, if only out of spite.

As for Italy, I see your point, but in TTL the various powers have pretty much by this installment been condensed into Florence, Genoa, and Venice removing the possibility of a grand coalition. Also note that the whole process is spead up by the three powers (soon enough two) attempting desperately to grab what little power they can while they still can which soon enough leads to an ultimate clash. The Celtic Reformation is basically a result of rising Celtic nationalism after the surge of independence mixed with imports of Lollardy into a culture that never really complied entirely with traditional Roman Catholicism. And yes, the main reason for the Northumbrian adoption of Lollardy was in a way spite, though it can be explained to the Realpolitikers as a way to gain the power of the Lollard-friendly exiled English nobles.

 

[das]

Without the major oppositions faced in OTL (for instance no Hussite Wars) Hussite Lollardy is able to continue on its expansion.

The Hussite Wars did nothing to stop Hussite religious expansion as such. What stopped it was a simple lack of understandment. Again, it was very much a national Czech movement, and so failed to meet much understandment amongst Germans in particular.

Hussite Lolardy is basically the Hussite Heresy. It does deny the supremacy of the Popes and Cardinals, and was for that reason condemned by the Church (though not in as splashy a way as OTL Constance). Since it is not traditional Roman Catholicism it requires legalization.

So it is a separate church, then. Why would any ruler approve both Catholics and Hussites, in that case?

In OTL this event was a reaction against the anti-Hussite nobility, who still exist in TTL.

No, it wasn't. The defenestration was an uprising directed specifically against King Sigismund's loyal officials. If king Wenceslaus is an ally of the Hussites, why would they kill what were for all purposes his delegates? Mind you, they might do something crazy like that, but I doubt that the alliance and the royal tolerance of Hussitism will survive it.

Remember that in TTL the Venetians have already been turned from the sea due to loss of the Adriatic and have, along with their significant land holdings in Veneto, additional holdings in the former Duchy of Milan

The Adriatic coastline was never too important for Venice as a sea power. The trade routes in the Eastern Mediterranean were, and even after they were jeopardised in OTL by the Ottomans the Venetians still refused to change their focus significantly, if only because Venice just wasn't an efficient land power.

Italian political geography is very confusing by this point, btw.

As for Italy, I see your point, but in TTL the various powers have pretty much by this installment been condensed into Florence, Genoa, and Venice removing the possibility of a grand coalition.

What of Savoy? Of Bologna? Of Estense? And of the myriad other small but still potent states and city-states in northern Italy? What of the Swiss? What, finally, of the Pope? And France and Aragon too might get involved.

A coalition is still very much possible.

The Celtic Reformation is basically a result of rising Celtic nationalism after the surge of independence mixed with imports of Lollardy into a culture that never really complied entirely with traditional Roman Catholicism.

Wouldn't say. Firstly, France had a huge surge of nationalism in OTL, numerous surges in fact, and most of them with heavy religious elements - yet Gallicanism was as far as the French took things. Secondly, by this point Catholicism had mostly taken hold in both Ireland and Scotland.

 

[Israelite9191]

The Hussite Wars did nothing to stop Hussite religious expansion as such. What stopped it was a simple lack of understandment. Again, it was very much a national Czech movement, and so failed to meet much understandment amongst Germans in particular.

This is debatable. The Hussite Wars did of course have an effect, as they killed much of the leadership and made people think "Hmm, if I convert to Lollardy I'll likely get killed. I think I'll stay a Roman Catholic." And while you are correct that it was mostly a Czech movement, it most certainly did spread to neighbouring areas in Hungary, Poland, Austria, Croatia, and Germany.

So it is a separate church, then. Why would any ruler approve both Catholics and Hussites, in that case?

So as to avoid maor inter-religious quarrels and prevent all out civil war perhaps? It is little different than a number of principalities in OTL legalising both Protestantism and Catholicism or states in the Balkans and East Europe legalism both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

No, it wasn't. The defenestration was an uprising directed specifically against King Sigismund's loyal officials. If king Wenceslaus is an ally of the Hussites, why would they kill what were for all purposes his delegates? Mind you, they might do something crazy like that, but I doubt that the alliance and the royal tolerance of Hussitism will survive it.

My sources give a rather different reasoning behind the defenestration, but yours sounds more likely. The event will be edited out for the next installment.

The Adriatic coastline was never too important for Venice as a sea power.

Huh? This is a new one for me. I seem to remember the Venetians in OTL striving desperately to maintain control over Dalmatia and Dubrovnik and fighting fiercely against the Hungarians, Byzantines, and Ottomans (at different points in time) to maintain naval supremacy on the Adriatic. I also seem to remember the Adriatic being the only way for Venice, as a sea power to reach the Eastern Mediterranean. Really, that is the strangest argument I have ever heard out of you. I may be wrong though, so correct me if you can.

What of Savoy? Of Bologna? Of Estense? And of the myriad other small but still potent states and city-states in northern Italy? What of the Swiss? What, finally, of the Pope? And France and Aragon too might get involved.

Bologna is part of Florence by this installment already, Savoy is more worried with French affairs than anything else at this point, Estense is simply not powerful enough to challenge Florence, the small city states are likewise either not capable of doing any damage or brought under the power of another state, the Swiss are simply not a factor, and the Papacy has too much to worry about with the heresies and pleasing his backers to go to war in Italy. While France (and Savoy, and possibly Switzerland) and Aragon could become involved, it would be further down the line. Remember, France is incredibly weakened in TTL, and Aragon is also weaker than OTL. There will be a clash in the future, don't worry, it just hasn't happened yet.

Wouldn't say. Firstly, France had a huge surge of nationalism in OTL, numerous surges in fact, and most of them with heavy religious elements - yet Gallicanism was as far as the French took things. Secondly, by this point Catholicism had mostly taken hold in both Ireland and Scotland.

First, please note that the Celtic Reformation has not seperated from the Church yet. As for the comparison with France, it doesn't really work. The situation in the Celtic nations, besides the surge of nationalism, also involves anti-English sentiment and a growing pan-Celtic identity that fosters the transmission of ideas from one Celtic nation to another. The surge in Celtic nationalism is also much stronger than the one France experienced in OTL as the Celts are finally expressing their national identity(ies) after hundreds of years of foreign domination. And yes, Roman Catholicism was followed by the masses of the Celtic countries, but theologically this Catholicism had numerous differences from the official one preached by the Pope from St. Peter's Throne. The Celtic countries still have a much more monastic form of Catholicism, more egalitarianism, more focus on Jesus rather than Church doctrine (all things espoused by the Lollard heresies), and a more naturalist theology.

 

[LittleBoots]

Dachs, any news on the stats/map? Finals are approaching and I can start it after that.

 

[Swissempire]

First, please note that the Celtic Reformation has not seperated from the Church yet. As for the comparison with France, it doesn't really work. The situation in the Celtic nations, besides the surge of nationalism, also involves anti-English sentiment and a growing pan-Celtic identity that fosters the transmission of ideas from one Celtic nation to another. The surge in Celtic nationalism is also much stronger than the one France experienced in OTL as the Celts are finally expressing their national(ies) after hundreds of years of foreign domination. And yes, Roman Catholicism was followed by the masses of the Celtic countries, but theologically this Catholicism had numerous differences from the official one preached by the Pope from St. Peter's Throne. The Celtic countries still have a much more monastic form of Catholicism, more egalitarianism, more focus on Jesus rather than Church doctrine (all things espoused by the Lollard heresies), and a more naturalist theology.

I have to jump in and throw my support to Issy on this one. The Celtic area's have always had their own identity within the Catholic Church, and its easy to see them breaking away in a sense with all the changes in the timeline. There are huge differences between a Irish Catholic and a Spanish Catholic for example. we're just better then them and they know it

 

[alex994]

You're only saying that because you're IRISH

 

[Oruc]

I thought the Spanish catholics were the ones with huge differences with other catholics?