Alternate History Thread III

[The Strategos]

@das
Interesting, though I am slightly surprised that we heard so little about Russia in the peace treaty. The fact that they have the best claim to taking down Napoleon, as well as their great losses suffered, would mean, I would think, they would be aggressive in getting as much, if not more, compensation than the other powers. If nothing else, I would think that as their army "chased" the remnants of Napoleon’s army, they would "liberate" vast swaths of land, land that they would be reluctant to withdraw from at the peace table.


And now for something completely different, a teaser for the project I am currently working on...

Wars of Heaven

God is on our side. How could he not be? After all, do we not have the Vicar of Christ, the Heir of the Throne of Peter? Certainly God would not take the side of those eastern heretics, who follow a false prophet and deny the filioque, to their own eternal judgment. The stench of their sins has rose before the Lord until he has raised up a nation to punish them for their wickedness, just as He used unrighteous Babylon to judge Judea for their sin. But as for us, the Word of the Lord shall strengthen us, and He shall make our enemies for our footstool. Even so, come O Lord and rule over the nations through us with an iron rod.


Like the righteous prophets of old, your people, O Lord, are being oppressed. From the west comes the Queen of Blasphemers, who sits on her seven hilled throne, the Great Whore of Babylon. She, rejecting godly instruction, follows not the leaders You have ordained, but follows their own Jezebel to the pit of Hell. And now, from the East, coming like the locusts who ascend from the Pit in the Apocalypse, come those supreme blasphemers, who deny their Master who bought them, these modern-day Arians who say that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was only a man. O Lord let the fury of your judgment overtake them! Truly blessed is he who dashes their little ones against the rock!


There is but one God, Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet. Yet these people who claim to be followers of the Book, they have twisted its message. They have worshiped the created man Jesus, may his name be blessed forever, as if he were the Creator, giving to a prophet what is due Allah alone. Let me be Your Sword of Vengeance, Your Purifying Fire, that these man-worshipers may no longer pollute Your creation, but be immediately banished to the place that has been prepared for them, so that they may be cast out of Your Presence forever.

 

[das]

The fact that they have the best claim to taking down Napoleon, as well as their great losses suffered, would mean, I would think, they would be aggressive in getting as much, if not more, compensation than the other powers. If nothing else, I would think that as their army "chased" the remnants of Napoleon’s army, they would "liberate" vast swaths of land, land that they would be reluctant to withdraw from at the peace table.

Alexander is good at passing such opportunities, though technically I'm not sure what exactly could he liberate outside of Poland. That said I suppose that amidst the assorted backroom deals Russia may well have secured future rights to the Danubean Principalities as additional compensation for its troubles.

As for getting any more compensation from France, Talleyrand managed to help derail discussion towards Saxony and Poland, and other such issues, using his friendship with the Tsar and other connections to play the mediator. Come to think of it, the whole episode does remind me of the Venice Conference in stSbNES, only with the defeated country actually doing something to get that effect. Then again, Napoleon is largely to blame for France failing to do that in OTL.

Interesting teaser you've got there.

Certainly God would not take the side of those eastern heretics, who follow a false prophet and deny the filioque

I know I have actually gained the reputation for this, but... heretics or heathens? The filioque implies the former (or at least schismatics, as Xen had reprimanded me in the past), but the false prophet sounds more like the latter, for the traditional Christian definition of prophet.

For some strange reason I thought of the Bogumils, though that's clearly neither here nor there except that they could be considered heretics with a "prophet".

That said, the other segments imply that we have an "Arabic Rite" heresy here, though its hard to tell for sure.

 

[Luckymoose]

I am tempted to write my own TL but fear I will mess it up. Guess it never hurts to try. Lots of research I assume.

 

[Dachs]

I am tempted to write my own TL but fear I will mess it up. Guess it never hurts to try. Lots of research I assume.

It depends on how well you know about the time period. I'm doing basically no research on my TL, because it's something I know a lot about. Before, though, on the Dark Ages TL that I wrote last summer, I spent a day combing through old books at the local library to get more information on the Holy Roman Empire's internal situation.

By all means, write your own timeline. It never hurts to have new material.

 

[TheBladeRoden]

I have a alt-hist that pretty much has a predetermined starting point and a predetermined ending point, and the real effort is twisting the entire timeline inbetween to make it seem at least somewhat conceivable.

But's here's one for a POD. One day (before human civilization) , all of the sudden Earth's axis randomly switches to go through China and the South Atlantic! Oh no!

 

[Dachs]

Now it's all hot where I live....

I'm sure Sym and Dis will love the ramifications of the Earth's axis suddenly switching...how long before "human civilization" is this?

 

[TheBladeRoden]

An indeterminate time somewhere between Earth's creation and the time of "Fresh Start"

 

[Luckymoose]

I would do something with Charles V of Spain but I am sure it has been done before. Or Henry VIII of England and Catherine having a son that lives.

 

[Dachs]

I would do something with Charles V of Spain but I am sure it has been done before. Or Henry VIII of England and Catherine having a son that lives.

What if it has already been done? If you want to write about something, write about it!

What are you thinking about changing with Charles V?

 

[Azale]

Now it's all hot where I live....

I'm sure Sym and Dis will love the ramifications of the Earth's axis suddenly switching...how long before "human civilization" is this?

My home is underwater or in Fiji

 

[Luckymoose]

What if it has already been done? If you want to write about something, write about it!

What are you thinking about changing with Charles V?

I dunno. If Henry VIII and Catherine had a Son would he be a heir to Spain as he would be Cousins with Charles?

 

[das]

Now it's all hot where I live....

But it should be a nice, European climate where I live!

Except I hate good weather for some reason. Darn.

Charles V was not Charles V of Spain. He was Charles I of Spain, and V of the Romans. As for Henry VIII's son, you'll have to massacre a lot of people in between first, but he should be there in the line of succession somewhere.

 

[Kal'thzar]

NOOO I LIKE MY SCOTTISH CLIMATE!

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!


The above message is an endoresed ALLCAPS type 1 (Extreme emotional turmoil)

 

[Luckymoose]

Charles V was not Charles V of Spain. He was Charles I of Spain, and V of the Romans. As for Henry VIII's son, you'll have to massacre a lot of people in between first, but he should be there in the line of succession somewhere.

I knew that. But for the line of succession. I'm sure it wouldn't really be that big of a deal. Course Princess Mary was arranged to marry Charles. So something could come of that. But I like the idea of a longer Catholic England. Don't know the overall effects of it though. But Spain and England could have a happy future together.

 

[The Strategos]

Alexander is good at passing such opportunities, though technically I'm not sure what exactly could he liberate outside of Poland. That said I suppose that amidst the assorted backroom deals Russia may well have secured future rights to the Danubean Principalities as additional compensation for its troubles.

As for getting any more compensation from France, Talleyrand managed to help derail discussion towards Saxony and Poland, and other such issues, using his friendship with the Tsar and other connections to play the mediator. Come to think of it, the whole episode does remind me of the Venice Conference in stSbNES, only with the defeated country actually doing something to get that effect. Then again, Napoleon is largely to blame for France failing to do that in OTL.

I guess I was just expecting Russia to throw her weight around more and attempt to dominate her potential rivals of central Europe, Prussia and Austria, and in general be more involved rather than be sitting ignored at the kiddies' table. That said, your explanation does make some sense.

Interesting teaser you've got there.

Thank you.

I know I have actually gained the reputation for this, but... heretics or heathens? The filioque implies the former (or at least schismatics, as Xen had reprimanded me in the past), but the false prophet sounds more like the latter, for the traditional Christian definition of prophet.

Most certainly heretics. Your definition of false prophet is an incorrect one, as false prophets and heretics were linked very early in Christianity. In Irenaeus' "Against Heresies," for example, he calls the gnostics both heretics and false prophets.

For some strange reason I thought of the Bogumils, though that's clearly neither here nor there except that they could be considered heretics with a "prophet".

That said, the other segments imply that we have an "Arabic Rite" heresy here, though its hard to tell for sure.

You're getting colder. You are right in seeing the "false prophet" (singular) as being significant, but wrongly applying this information. The real identity is on the one hand much more obvious and on the other hand much less obvious as it is quite a dramatic shift from how it works in OTL. In fact, it is such a shift, I am unsure if I can plausably pull it off, though I think I'll just have to fudge the timeline a little and play the "that's just how it is card" to make things work out, because my idea of the final situation appeals to me so much.

 

[Israelite9191]

Very interesting Strategos. Christology and Christian denominalationism are two fields of particular interest to me, so I will be paying close attention.

 

[das]

I guess I was just expecting Russia to throw her weight around more and attempt to dominate her potential rivals of central Europe, Prussia and Austria, and in general be more involved rather than be sitting ignored at the kiddies' table.

They would be doing some of that later on. For now they got what Alexander wanted, though.

As for your timeline, I'm honestly too out of my depth here, so I'll just wait for whatever you post next. I am very curious to see how it will turn out as well, ofcourse.

 

[Disenfrancised]

I have a alt-hist that pretty much has a predetermined starting point and a predetermined ending point, and the real effort is twisting the entire timeline inbetween to make it seem at least somewhat conceivable.

But's here's one for a POD. One day (before human civilization) , all of the sudden Earth's axis randomly switches to go through China and the South Atlantic! Oh no!

Ideas:

Point 1: The coastlines will look somewhat different due to differing weather, rivers and sea levels, all of canadas artic islands should be in one mass or so.
Point 2: Since the north pole is land covered there will be a huge (and I mean huge ice cap) probably extending at least to the 45 parralel (das, you'll actually be under an icecap ).
Point 3: there won't be any great lakes since they were formed from glacial depressions.
Point 4: Africa will be one huge desert, in fact this world will be dryer and harsher in general outside the wet and temperate southern continents and lands about the *Arctic ocean.
Point 5: My bet on circumstances suited to human development will on the plains of southern *North America, then spreading up and out along the coasts of asia from the Bering strait. The main regions for civilization will be along the north australia-Asian coast-north canada-europe axis, depending on cereal distribution.

 

[foolish icarus]

An apparently well researched exploration of several alternate geographical possibilities, including several worlds with similar premises.

 

[fantasmo]

Very interesting Strategos. Christology and Christian denominalationism are two fields of particular interest to me, so I will be paying close attention.

You're just trying to find a point of weakness in our religion...crafty bugger...

Strategos! I approve! This meets with the Fantasmo Thumbs Up of Approval!

Das! Likewise! Me likey! Will have more comments on both when less tired!