Alternative Component Names for VP

@pineappledan Do I remember correctly that your wife is Hindu/Indian? Could she help us with huuuuuge list of Indian cities?
You remember correctly. My wife is South Indian (Kerala/Tamil), but she grew up in Singapore. However, If I contacted my mother-in-law, she speaks 8 languages, including Hindi, and is a bit of a history buff. I think she would be more than happy to help.

However, it depends what you hope to accomplish. I talked to my wife about the current Indian city list, and it is attempting to span millenia of history and include dozens of unique dynasties, languages, and empires as a way of acknowledging the breadth of Indian history:
Delhi - current capital, and capital of the Delhi Sultanates and the Mughal Empire
Mumbai - the largest and wealthiest city in India
Vijayanagara - the capital of the last great Hindu empire
Pataliputra - the capital of the Mauryan empire, the largest Indian empire until the Mughals
Varanasi - the city where Buddhism was founded, and a pilgrimage city for the god Shiva. Arguably the religious heart of India
Agra - The capital of the Mughal Empire, the Taj Mahal is here
Calcutta - capital of the British Raj, and center for the Indian Independence Movement which Gandhi started
Lahore - Capital of Punjab, and of the former Sikh Empire. Second largest and wealthiest city in Pakistan
And the list goes on...

Because Ghandi is such a contemporary figure, an list of Indian names from his time would feel very modern. The one which was compiled in that civ 6 city list looks good, but as I said, it depends what you hope to accomplish
Code:
Delhi
Calcutta
Mumbai
Chennai
Hyderabad
Lahore
Ahmedabad
Bengaluru
Karachi
Lucknow
Amritsar
Kanpur
Agra
Nagpur
Varanasi
Pune
Allahabad
Madurai
Chittagong
Srinagar
Dhaka
Patna
Solapur
Jaipur
Bareilly
Tiruchchirapalli
Dhaka
Gwalior
Meerut
Indore
Jabalpur
Peshawar
Multan
Ajmer
Rawalpindi
Vadodara
Muradabad
Mysuru
Salem
Sialkot
Kozhikode
Surat
Thiruvananthapuram
Coimbatore
Jodhpur
Hubballi
Jalandhar
Gaya
Bikaner
Jamshedpur
Aligarh
Shahjahanpur
Saharanpur
Jhansi
Gorakhpur
Rampur
Kolhapur
Bhagalpur
Thanjavur
Mangaluru
Kakinada
Faizabad
Kanchipuram
Rajamahendravaram
Kumbakonam
Mirzapur
Darbhanga
Farrukhabad
Quetta
Gujranwala
Tirunelveli
Visakhapatnam
Titagarh
Puducherry
Kasur
Amravati
 
I just do not know barely anything about india. This list just is too big imo. Is there possibility to cut it to 45 the most important cities from gandhi-time timeline? If the list is contemporary then there's no problem with old/new city name (probably didn't change recently), but it could be verified.

I dont think that the more cities the better. We could add hundreds of cities, but then their meaning would be lost. I noticed that when I created polish list.
 
If you want an India city list which tries to scratch the surface of an incredibly rich history, then the current city list is actually pretty good.
If you want an India city list which focuses on Gandhi's time period, circa 1931, then take the top 30-40 names in the list provided above.
 
To be frank (ah... puns), I think the French city list doesn't need much changes. Maybe adding Verdun, which was the city where what would become the kingdom of France was created (also the perfect city to forward-settle and then defend until the end of time), Le Havre, Dunkerque, Saint-Etienne (important industrial and weapon production center these last centuries) and Versailles (for its historical significance, even if the city itself is just next to Paris) and mixing things up a bit could do the trick.
 
But as you just said it needs changes. If you have time construct something :) Even it is only sorting out names.
 
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You can laugh at me but I made another rework of polish city list, but... this time after serious digging into history of each city. I added few missing ones like Kazimierz (special city-resort with defensive capabilities built by Casmir/Kazimierz), Lanckorona (similar to Kazimierz, but better defensive), Wieliczka (important mines; defensive). I also sorted them seriously so now they present situation of Casimir's Kingdom, his conquers, his main forts, his main investments. He build over 60 castles and fortified or built dozens of cities. I also emphasized trade hubs like Lwów, Bydgoszcz or Lublin, buffed cities with many defensive/strategic roles (sometimes the only one they have like Koło), meaning to diplomatic relations like Sanok or very nelected role of temporary capital Płock. I hope this will be last serious rework and only cosmetic changes will happen since now. List is expanded to 50 cities:
Code:
Kraków
Kazimierz
Płock
Lwów
Bydgoszcz
Poznań
Lublin
Olkusz
Lanckorona
Wieliczka
Inowrocław
Łęczyca
Koło
Nowe Miasto Korczyn
Sandomierz
Sanok
Włocławek
Kalisz
Wałcz
Piotrków
Wieluń
Żnin
Sieradz
Włodzimierz
Warszawa
Dobrzyń nad Wisłą
Tarnów
Zakroczym
Kamieniec Podolski
Bełz
Czersk
Chełm
Wizna
Brześć
Krzemieniec
Kruszwica
Inowłódz
Przemyśl
Halicz
Radom
Chęciny
Nakieł
Rypin
Krosno
Konin
Rawa
Gniezno
Wschowa
Drzeń
Bochnia
 
Vijayanagara - the capital of the last great Hindu empire
I cannot find such city in the list. I read that now are only ruins left right?
(...)the current Indian city list, and it is attempting to span millenia of history and include dozens of unique dynasties, languages, and empires as a way of acknowledging the breadth of Indian history
If you want an India city list which tries to scratch the surface of an incredibly rich history, then the current city list is actually pretty good.
That's what individual "India" mods are for. Each one can focus on some very important period with totally different history. It's awesome about india. We cannot strip rest of mods just because we want span through its history. I noticed that making another rework of Casimir, his narrow part of history had very significant meaning on which cities grew that time, which were built, which were neglected. It was difficult. How difficult it would be to make such list for all history of Poland 1000 years long. And India is much older. Cities grow and fall. That is what we can present with this mod.
Because Ghandi is such a contemporary figure, an list of Indian names from his time would feel very modern. The one which was compiled in that civ 6 city list looks good, but as I said, it depends what you hope to accomplish
It is no problem. We cannot treat some leaders differently just because names feel too modern. I think we should focus on his history, his plans to unify India and introduce global harmony and peace (without nukes buhahaha).
If you want an India city list which focuses on Gandhi's time period, circa 1931, then take the top 30-40 names in the list provided above.
So I would focus only on cities from Gandhi times. What about sorting them? What is current list sorting key? Maybe we should throw some "historical" cities and put some "modern" ones, more linked to him? I would more than happy to see the effect, but if it is any problem then I won't bother anyone of your family.

You can only see how much effort I try to put into polish list. I don't know why but it is very important for me to make this list "perfect".
 
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That Ghandi city list strictly uses population in descending order. Delhi was the third largest city, but also the capital, so it is first. This list is also nice because it predates how Bengal would drop out of that list in 1942. For reasons us white folk (and the Japanese) don’t like to talk about.

Indian history is complicated for moral, religious and political reasons, especially with the rise of (Hindi) nativist politics in India.

As an example, Delhi and Agra, and the Qila UB for that matter, are all mainly relevant to the Mughal empire. My wife wrinkled her nose when she saw the Qila being used to represent Indianness. The Mughals viewed themselves as continuous with the Timurid empire; they were Muslim overlords of a Hindu majority population. For many Indians, especially the modern Hindu nationalist movement, there’s resistance to the idea of even acknowledging Mughals as “Indian”. It’s like calling the British Raj Indian.

But what do you do? India has a history of invasion and colonization, either amongst themselves or by outside forces like Timurids, Persians, Huns, Macedonians, it’s baked into the history of the subcontinent.

Any effort to strip these foreign influences from the city list, however, could be perceived as appeasement of Hindu nationalism, a very modern, very contemporary movement which bears resemblance to white supremacy in Europe. I would be worried that any attempt to “mess” with an otherwise very objective list of Indian cities can be interpreted for political ends at the expense of very considerable Sikh, Buddhist and Muslim minorities. Consider the religious violence, bordering on genocide, which erupted in Gandhi’s own time when India became independent.

Re India, You either aim for ultra-wide cultural and historical pluralism or absolute objectivity. Creating inflections and minor revisions is too politically sensitive.
 
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Wow, that's very deep. Gandhi had hard times trying to consolidate that "mess". I added current list. It's up to you and maybe other Indians on this forum to call for a change.
v0.12 on Github.
 
Here is a list of 45 cities based on the most important French cities (except Verdun, Dunkerque and Versailles) in 1812.

Code:
Paris
Lyon
Marseille
Bordeaux
Chartres
Orléans
Nantes
Grenoble
Toulouse
Lille
Verdun
Avignon
Versailles
La Rochelle
Dijon
Angers
Nancy
Metz
Poitiers
Saint-Etienne
Rennes
Dunkerque
Auxerre
Pau
Carcassonne
Bouges
Montpellier
Amiens
Bayonne
Nice
Caen
Le Havre
Calais
Bourges
Nîmes
Toulon
Troyes
Brest
Cherbourg
Valence
Besançon
Reims
Blois
Nîmes
Arras
 
Here is a list of 45 cities based on the most important French cities (except Verdun, Dunkerque and Versailles) in 1812.
Important French cities in 1812? So you forgot :
Luxembourg, Bussels, Turin, Hamburg, Barcelona, Florence, Rome (and many others officialy part of France in 1812)

More seriously, your list is solid. Maybe "Ajaccio" should be somewhere, since Napoleon was from Corsica, but that's not required.
 
Important French cities in 1812? So you forgot :
Luxembourg, Bussels, Turin, Hamburg, Barcelona, Florence, Rome (and many others officialy part of France in 1812)

More seriously, your list is solid. Maybe "Ajaccio" should be somewhere, since Napoleon was from Corsica, but that's not required.

I should have said 'Important French cities of the First French Empird'.
I should have indeed put Ajaccio (and Napoléon-sur-Yon :D ).
 
except Verdun, Dunkerque and Versailles
May I ask why? I think you should, like @Moi Magnus said, put some conquered territories. OF course it will be difficult to show every piece, but there were some important locations in Europe that Napoleon put pressure on, right? I would like to remind you about "Księstwo Warszawskie" he created in 1807-1815 link. That's important for us, poles. This was one of the tries to regain independece from Autria, Russia and Prussia. That's why there were polish legions in his army. After his intervention, in 1815 almost all terrtories of this country went to Russia instead of being divided again between the big three and Free City Krakow was created. Neglecting that is not in good taste.

If the limit is the reason then increase it. I found that for Poland 50 is ok, but you saw our conversation about India where they have 76?
 
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I should have said 'Important French cities of the First French Empird'.
I precisely only took some of the First French Empire that are no longer in France.
+ Belgium was part of France from 1789 to 1830, mostly the same for Luxembourg.
+Turin was part of France from 1802 to 1814.
+The other were conquered after 1804, but annexed. They were really considered by Napoléan as part of France (to the contrary to the other territories he just kept as "forced allies").

Reference: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Europe_1812_map_en.png
 
It would be strage if Napoleon said: "I only conquered them, but nah, I don't want them to be part of France."
Just looking on the map - Hell, that's nice piece of land he conquered or subjugated. He had very high ambitions.
 
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Reworked Assyrian list basing on what @Chrisy15 made, this map and wikipedia:
Code:
Ninua (capital)
Aššur (previous capital; cultural center)
Kalhu (previous capital; trade center; biblical)
Erbaìl (important residence; its peak)
Harranu (sacred place of the god, strategic place, main trade path; another capital)
Arrapha (important governor; strategic place)
Dur-Šharrukin (olive plantation; previous capital)
Naṣibina (local governor; long assyrian history)
Damascus (conquered; important strategic place)
Tarbisu (temple; important for Ash; palace)
Uruk (province center; temples and glory)
Kar-Šulmānu-ašarēdu (strategic center; river cross)
Guzana (governor)
Ḥalab (conquered; strategic)
Huzirina (library; culture)
Arvad (tributary; harbor)
Tarsisi (important trade routes paths)
Manṣuate (administrative centre)
Hit (frontier fortress)
Karkamiš (late battle Egypt-Babylon; tributary)
Imgur-Enlil (important history and location)
Nibbur (important temples; conquered; old sumerian capital)
Hadatu (conquered; temple)
Qarqar (historical assyrian battle)
Memfi (conquered Egypt)
Raṣappa (camp; governor)
Kahat (old palace)
Yerushaláyim (conquered Jerusalem)
Nohadra (just conquered many times)
Babylon (conquered by Ash because of brother)
Niwt'imn (conquered Thebes)
Agamtanu (conquered Ecabatana)
Amat (conquered)
Upî (just between river)
Kiššatu (occupied)
Arpad (walls)
Ava (gods)
Kelishin (stele found)
Adummatu (desert city on the south border)
Alqosh (christianity)
Rawandiz (trade to Nineveh)
Qatanum
Sirqu
Shareisha
Sam’al
Tušhan
Mari
Turuspa
Kuruhanni
Because "Athura" was known as Acheamenid Assyria I changed name to "māt Aššur" for neo-Assyria.
 
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Just a quick note, but I'm pretty sure the Spanish, Siamese, American, Ethiopian and English lists you've got in your Github are actually mine as well. I've also got some additional lists that may be of use to you as well for Theodora, Ramesses, Bismarck, Pachacuti, Hiawatha, Pacal, Suleiman, Catherine, Pocatello (although this one's really old), and Askia- I made some of these for my ICN mod but some haven't been added or their leader hasn't been made yet.

EDIT: Also, Wu's capital should probably be Shendu (Luoyang)
 
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Yeah im still waiting for further chinese list rework/verification.

Can you post those civs you mentioned?
 
great ideas here... the iroquois city list is sorely in need of a similar redo.. I'll try to put something together in case y'all are interested. I'll be coming at this from a predominantly mohawk perspective, however (ie only 1 of the 5/6 nations that form the iroquois confederacy), and an eastern one at that (i expect the distinction between east and west is too subtle for discussion here, though it'll manifest in my list as a use of 'i' where western mohawks might use a 'y').

Are there any limitations on characters for city names?? ie mohawks tend to use a lot of : and ' and other accents in written spelling
 
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