An In-depth Analysis of the Thought Process in Playing an Immortal Game

[obsolete]

Dude, something I am just not getting: how the heck do you get 119 hammers in Cuzco? "Here is Wot in action help building the Colossus(119 hammers with copper bonus!)."

You have base 10 hammers from the stone and 2 mines. Double production with copper, plus other building bonuses, plus maybe some overflow from another build. But how did that get as high as 119?? If I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it. Can't view the saves right now, but I would love to see that math because that has to be some kind of record for hammer bonuses...

edit: ok I see you also have 2 priest specialists (+4 hammers?) ... but I'm still not seeing how it could be that high.

I'm not sure what speed setting he chose. But the over-flow would be greater the quicker the game speed.

 

[ABigCivFan]

I went through a phase of build/research, now are preparing for a large scale campain against Spain.

1190AD: I wont need copper for a while, traded to Ottoman for Fur and 7GPT, I will need as much +cash flow as possible. Here is the trade summary @1200AD: 30GPT from other civs.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1200AD_Trade_Summary.JPG

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1200AD: Dem Chart. Decent on MFG goods, land area and pop. Low on Power.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1200AD_Dem_Chart.JPG

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1200AD: Group of 4 workers building lumber mill around HE city. LMs give huge boosts to base hammers, so want them built ASAP.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1200AD_lumber_mill.JPG

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1200AD: Research plan: Now I have 4 potential enemies: Roosy, Izzy, WonKon, Monty. They are all powerful and can declare on me anytime, so I will need a very mobil force to sufficiently defend my empire. At this point, the best way i thought was by building an Empire-wide railroad network from coast to coast. So Steam+Railroad will be the next 2 res projects. Then the next res direction will be toward Industrialization for Infantry and factory.

In the same year, i accepted peace with Roosy for 330Gold tribute to me.

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1220AD: Monty asked for 120 gold, that is it? since he is the best mercenary in this game, i would do my best to keep him happy, so paid him.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1220AD_Monty_Tribute.JPG

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1310AD: Railroad researched. I built more workers anticipating for building the great Continental railroad. Having groups of 2 railroading. Rail the mines first for extra hammers. Dont underestimate this bonus, it boosted production in my HE city by almost 40%.

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1310AD: I though I had enough troops for Izzy, declared war, stole 3 workers, and sent 1 rifle to get a peep in Madrid. A frigate got a peep at her border coastal city. Do not neglect navy when planning a war, they protect vital seafood tiles and in my case deny enemy water tiles.

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1310AD: I bribed Monty again to fight Izzy with economics. Hope he use Free Market and trade with me soon.

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1320AD: Turns out Izzy was ready for me, check out her nice SODs... I guess it was a good move on my part to attack her BEFORE she got Mil Tradition. I could really leverage my superior siege forces.

Unit summary to the left is for her SOD number 1, large # of Conqistadors... And the Units show in the middle below were my SOD with 12 cannons and Grenadiers.

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1320AD: look at her SOD after the battle. I pounded her with Cannons first for serious collateral, killed majority of that SOD.

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1320AD: Take a look at HE city, after railroad all mines and lumber mills, its hammer output was 100+ or 1 Grenadier/cannon every turn.

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1330AD: Got Nationalism, switched to NationalHood right away to start drafting. Had just finished Global theater in a nice food city and it will get it for the next 15 turns haha. All AIs had higher power curve due to large stacks of instantly upgraded Rifles and Mounted, so i will need the QUANTITY for now. With Barracks+Theocracy, all newly draft units will have 2 exp, just enough for 1 promotion.

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1330AD: Look at the power of that GG lvl3 medic, my forces suffered heavy casualty, but he can heal them all in 3 turns in Enemy territory!

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1340AD: Take look at the nice 3rd city, Taoism holy city, with fully mature cottages and lumber mills, it is a great all-purpose city. I had a Military academy in there as well. Actually I used the lastest 3 GGs to build 3 Mil Academies in 3 most productive cities. With Theocracy, they can all build a unit of choice with in 2 turns.

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1340AD: Globe Theater city, it is starving so send some those boys to the front!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1340AD_GlobeTheater_Draft.JPG

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1340AD: The sneaky Roosy and Wonkong decided to take advantage of the situation and they declared on me and Brennus simultaniously! WonKong was a bigger threat since he got large stacks of Calvary and those Protective Grenadiers/Rifles.

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1340AD: WWII in full progress, I left Mehemad out since he is my only true trading partner, he is weak dont want him get pillaged.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1340AD_WWII.JPG


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1350AD: Power curve. Who said Pangaea is easy? When you get ganged up 3 on 1 it is not funny...

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1360AD: The great rail net work, you will soon see how it saved my A__......

 

[sigmakan]

That diplomacy screen is pretty amazing haha. I hope you get uot of this one alive(I'm sure you will). Good stuff!

 

[r_rolo1]

Ouch.... Time to use the draft and the GW bonus, methinks. Cavs are no match for a nice levee of Rifles. And using the inner lines to defend from those SoD will give you a nice XP and maybe 2 GG.

P.S : The Ottoman guy is very quiet. He's a sneaky b*stard, but is bribable....

 

[Lord Chambers]

Somehow you're on the top of the scoreboard. I don't even know what that looks like anymore.

Considering, wouldn't a better option have been to just head for the space race? Since you're already ahead?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Somehow you're on the top of the scoreboard. I don't even know what that looks like anymore.

Considering, wouldn't a better option have been to just head for the space race? Since you're already ahead?

I have learned my lessons about leaving Immortal AI's military unchecked. Now, no matter what victory type I pursue, I keep a conscious effort to reduce/limit their military might. They get upgrades super cheap, so I am often in trouble when they get a key tech such as Mil Trad when they upgrade their 50+ knights to Cavs and unleash on me.

In this game, I had a solid tech lead after steel, was able to leverage the great cannons to bring down Izzy and Wonkong's power curve by destroying large stacks of their cavs and knights. From there would be a lot easy for me to pursue victory of my choice.

From my experience, as long as a human player is not too far behind on military techs, he/she can always compete with AIs production bonus by the following combo:

Effective use of Initiative+collateral damage+Promotions+GGs+Mobility+Unit Mix+Draft

 

[Dirk1302]

Why haven't you switched to Free religion? Would have avoided some of these wars maybe.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Why haven't you switched to Free religion? Would have avoided some of these wars maybe.

I am a big fan of Organized Religion. At this speed, my cities are always busy build science/happy improvements/wonders throughout the game, so OR was by far the most useful. Some of the AIs got annoyed because I traded with everyone, and refused some of their frequent demands.

Then I used theocracy during war time, so had not gotten a chance for FR. That was another reason for building the Rail network and having the Vassal on the Eastern front, both of means for dealing with a multi-front war. Given my production capability and mobility, i thought I could handle 2 strong AIs on 2 fronts.

 

[futurehermit]

Yeah, you could've been more diplomatic I think...

 

[ABigCivFan]

1360AD: I bribed Ottoman to War with Roosy, not expecting much, at least keeping him on my side. Monty is located between them, so hope Ottoman does not get hit too hard.

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1370AD: My defense in Monchu Piccu, the 3rd city which is bording Korea.

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1370AD: Kill-Loss summary, Spain got the brunt of the damage. The drafted rifles do not count as "built" as you could see.

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1380AD: I sent reinforcement(5 Rifles+1 lvl2 medic knight) to Brennus' capital via rail, they got they in time just when WK brought his siege stack. I am sure my guys will be proud for fighting against overwhelming odds and hope their sacrifice will buy valuable time....

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1390AD: While I was defending on the Eastern front, the western front was going well according to plan thanks to the healing power of the GG. I parked my SOD on a hill for a few turns, reduced her large Conquistador/Rifle stacks. And I sent steady streams of Rifles to reinforce this task force. Izzy had launched many lvl4 sieges(thanks to her UB) against this stack, but cats and trebs just wont deal that much damage against a fast-healing SOD. Her offense got spase turn after turn, and very soon she became fully defensive.

Start of the "Battle of Madrid": I had 2 stacks of attacking forces.

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1390AD: CRIII,CRII cannons do wonders, Madrid fell..

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1390AD: The fall of Vienne. The same year, my guys in Vienne(Celt's Capital) fought valiantly, they killed waves of Korean Trebs/Hewachas before giving their last breath. I fell back to Bicerate to regroup and prepare for even more vicious fight.

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1390AD: Power chart. Look at Monty's power, this dude must be fighting a phony war, what the heck? He is probably throwing a party in his pyramids and laughing at us slugging it out at each other. Well at least he "is" on my side....

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1400AD: Brennus ditched me as his master for not "properly" defending him.

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1400AD: War weariness is hitting my cities, changed civics to Police State.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1400AD_Civic_Change.JPG

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1410AD: Battle of Vienne. I killed a good number of WK's pillaging Cavs for several turns. I also had drafted 3 rifles/per turn and produced sufficient number of units to counter attack WK. The rail network was a bless it allowed me to transport my troops from ANY city to Anywhere I need with in 1-2 turns. This allowed me to concentrate and coordinate large offensive/defensive forces with the right unit mix at crucial moments.

While Vienne was still in anachy, my culture swallowed tiles north of the city. I railed all the way to the city(see those 2 brave workers in the stack), which gave me an opportunity to deal some serious damage to Korean forces inside the city. I could easily build a cannon from a city 9 tiles away and having that cannon attacking Vienne in the SAME turn!

In general, after AIs capture a city, it often send many units into the city to defend it. This is often a great opportunity to destroy large # of its forces while the culture is down and defense is down.

Also note that i pushed cultural slider to 40% to deal with WW, i think it was the on-and-off Spanish war that caused 10+ WW in my cities, check the save. I wont stop the war again Korean until i break his military back bone.

Screen shot prior to my attack:

Screen of Vienne After my attack:

I did not plan on taking the city, just let WK send more forces into it and apply the same trick. My units were on the hill in a neutral tile, it can heal quickly and enjoy the defense bonue. This was how I systematically reduced the AIs fighting strength in many less favorable war situiations.


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1410AD: Arial battlefield view. You saw the my stream of fortified rifles on the Western front, they were guarding the vital rail network to the front and some resources.

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Roosy was a joke, his small forces of knights and grenadiers only served purpose of adding GG pts to me. It seems for now that I have gotten out the trap, and I made a decision to soon turn my offenses again Korea...

 

[r_rolo1]

Nicely done. Spain has got it hard and in spite of korea had captured your vassal capitol, most surely they are badly beaten. Time to counter attack, methinks. Push hard against Korea , specially to wonsan ( to shorten the front) and build a railroad to the front .Beware of Monty though

 

[Dirk1302]

Why haven't you switched to Free religion? Would have avoided some of these wars maybe.

I am a big fan of Organized Religion. At this speed, my cities are always busy build science/happy improvements/wonders throughout the game, so OR was by far the most useful. Some of the AIs got annoyed because I traded with everyone, and refused some of their frequent demands.

Then I used theocracy during war time, so had not gotten a chance for FR. That was another reason for building the Rail network and having the Vassal on the Eastern front, both of means for dealing with a multi-front war. Given my production capability and mobility, i thought I could handle 2 strong AIs on 2 fronts.

That's right, the religious civics can be quite strong, i love theocracy, your units have much better chances at anything if the're doubly promoted from the start. I use pacificsm often sometime between 0 and 1000 for 3-4 GS.
As for OR it's quite useful because the whip is also more effective functioning at 37.5 hammers instead of 30 a pop. Still i personally find this particular advantage not enough to take too much risk also because FR gives relevant bonuses 10% research bonus and some happiness. Still you handled the attacks well .

 

[Lord Chambers]

Amazing. I don't think I'd ever have the patience not to move into a city when I can take it.

Protecting rails and resources is also something I never bother to do. I always rely on my offense to be a more pressing matter to the AI than sending people behind my lines for rice. When you leave people on flat terrain to protect rails, as you're doing, does the AI try to attack them?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Yeah, you could've been more diplomatic I think...

I guess I could. With 7 civs stuffed on 1 continent, diplomacy was rather intricate. My priority was getting all Open Borders for best trade routes; get all possible resources from Anyone. So for a long time, my empire was in great shape, it had lots of resources of all kind and spurned growth/research. That would piss off some AIs since they were not all friendly toward each other. And they would naturally asking for more unreasonable demands from me when they saw I was leading the scores.

I could have checked cross-relations before each trade, but thought it was too tedious, just not my style. I instead invested time and research to prepare for the fight and I thought I could take on at least 2 strong AIs militarily.

Roosy attacked me when he was pleased/cautious, it was just one of those unpredictable Civ4 moments.

 

[ABigCivFan]

Amazing. I don't think I'd ever have the patience not to move into a city when I can take it.

Protecting rails and resources is also something I never bother to do. I always rely on my offense to be a more pressing matter to the AI than sending people behind my lines for rice. When you leave people on flat terrain to protect rails, as you're doing, does the AI try to attack them?

If I had taken the city, I would be on defensive and subject to collateral damage. However, if I fortify outside of that city, enermy tends to send reinforcements into the city and I could use my CR cannons again to deal more damage.

In Madrid's case, it was surrounded by Spanish culture, there is only 1 tile narrow rail leading into it. If this rail is pillaged, Madrid will be cut off from reinforcements. I was sending machine guns into the city at the time. I also had 1 important Dye adjacent Spanish border which is providing 2 to my empire, so had to guard it. All guarded tiles are right along the front line, my enemies had open borders, so I often see korean cavs or American knights wondering around looking for pillaging.

Yes the fortified rifles detered enemy mounted from pillaging. It also works for protecting border Towns.

 

[ABigCivFan]

1410AD: W. Weariness is hitting hard for the long on-off Spanish war. I decided to take a break with Spain and shift my focus on Korea. Wonson is the next Target since it has Banana, a 2+ heath boost I desperately need.

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1430AD: I healed my attacking forced in Madrid, and railed directly to Wonson. The veteran CR troops showed up @ Wonson in 1 turn in 1420AD. It was lightly defended, and I expect to take it in 1 turn.

Wonson captured.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1430AD_Wonson_Captured.JPG

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1440AD: WK moved more forces into Vienne to defend it. Still 2 turns until its border pop. I railed my forces from Wonson to Vienne and ready to attack it the same turn.

My forces had a singe thing on their mind: Avange Vienne. And they turned the city into a kill zone.

WK had a CGIII+Drill defender, so my plan was to suiside a CRII cannon first, then send in the big guns of CRIII cannons, expecting mimimum losses thereafter. Vienne captured the same turn.

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1440AD: Kill-Loss summary, add WK to the victim list.

1440AD power graph.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1440AD_Power_Chart.JPG

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1450AD: Consequences of heavy drafting(3 units from this city). only a food rich/Globa Theater city is fit for this job.

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1450AD: Did Brennus get a GA and culture bombed? His only city took away my corn! I was very short on health already, and now -2 health? I had an evil smile on my face: "Sorry bud, but you have to die for stealing my corn..."

look at that stupid Spanish horse pillaging my old town, and Brennus is too weak to anything about it.

1450AD: Another reason for killing Brennus, the "We yearn to join our Motherland" mob is inciting revolt in Bibracte!

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1460AD: Coordinated attack on Brennus and WK.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1460AD_Coordinated_Attacks_on_Brennus_and_WonKong.JPG

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1460AD: Production summary in cities, building some Machine Guns to defend newly conquered cities. Almost every city dedicated to the war effort.

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1480AD: End of Brennus. A bit overkill, but no big deal.

Look at the benefit for completely destroying a civ, no more annoying "We yearn to join our Motherland" mob in Bibracte! Also got the +2 health Corn back.

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1480AD: Cities, note I was build some missonaries to convert newly conquered cities to my state religion.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1480AD_City_View.JPG

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1480AD: Izzy wants "Open Border" while furious. Great just in time so I could spy on her cities and plan my next invasion haha..

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1480AD_Izzy_Open_border_Offer.JPG

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1480AD: Unit counts.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1480AD_Unit_Summary.JPG

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1500AD: Battle of PyongYang.

1500AD: New GG Zhukov born, created 2nd lvl3 Medic Warlord. 2 MedicIII will be very helpful for a 2-front war.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1500AD_2nd_MedicIII_Warlord.JPG

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1505AD: PyongYang fell. Versailles+Sistine+Mil.Academy! What a prize city!

1505AD: Look at Seoul, the Spiral Minerat, those mature cottages and etc, jucie...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1505AD_Seoul_Prize_City.JPG

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1510AD: WK offers to surrender. I did not take it since I wanted to capture Seoul later. I was 1 turn from Infantry, so I offered cease fire for his large Gold payment and adapt Free Mkt. Sometimes you have to take the gold when AI still have it, cause they can spend them all the next turn and you would get nothing. I will need it for upgrading my massive rifle army to Infantry. During the peace with Korea, i will use the more powerful army to take down more Spanish cities which had swallowed some of my vital resources..

WK is cautious and he is willing to trade techs after peace. Nice! I saved a GS to bulb, so traded for Mil Trad and Scien. Method, will bulb Physics partially and hope to get it first for the free GS. Monty already got Steel, so I did not hesitate to trade to WonKong given I will have infantry in 1 turn.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1510AD_WK_Tech_Trade.JPG

1515AD: Traded Rail Road to WK for Biology.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1515AD_WK_Biology_Trade.JPG

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1515AD: Assembly Line researched; brief peace. Upgraded some veteran rifles to Infantry. Civic change. Ottoman switched to Merc, no more trading partner. So i changed to Merc, Bueaur, OR. to help building factories, Pentagon, Mt Rushmore, WP, Ironworks and etc.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1515AD_Unit_Breakdown.JPG

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/101615/1515AD_Civic_Change.JPG

Bonus pic. Hey guys stop fooling around, we are getting ready for another war!

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This might be the last pic set.

At this point, all I need to do is research Artillary, then shut down research and steam roll over the AIs. I am quite sure that I could complete a pre 1700AD domination victory given the progress of the game. And my wife wanted me to take a break from this game for now lol...

I hope I had demostrated some of the common strategies from my experience. And hope this could really help some new players do better in their next game.


Thanks for reading.

ABigCivFan

 

[ABigCivFan]

Latest saves.

 

[LlamaCat]

I am curious why you didn't seem to focus on trying to cut off the AI's resources such as iron or whatever, especially since you had a mobile force. Or did you do this and just not focus on it in this report?

That is an interesting trick to sit outside the city, although I would be afraid the AI would just keep building new units and I would get bogged down. At what point do you know they are going to stop sending in new units to defend the city? I'm not sure how you determine something like that.

 

[ABigCivFan]

I am curious why you didn't seem to focus on trying to cut off the AI's resources such as iron or whatever, especially since you had a mobile force. Or did you do this and just not focus on it in this report?

I would pillage res only if I could reach it. AIs had the # advatage, and most of the Strategic res were deep within their territory, so my focus was to capture cities with resources that I need.

That is an interesting trick to sit outside the city, although I would be afraid the AI would just keep building new units and I would get bogged down. At what point do you know they are going to stop sending in new units to defend the city? I'm not sure how you determine something like that.

Vienne was in Anachy, no unit production yet. This all happed within a few turns, and I used that opportunity to reduce WK's fighting strength. I did capture it 2 turns before the end of its anachy period.

 

[tycoonist]

very good read. informative with lots of good pictures. thanks