Ancient City Ruins

[Celeborn]

*Gets out his spinning needle that is enchanted to react to the Discs standing magic field*

 

[Andvare]

Indeed, as it was intended. Because I was sensibly offended by such display of what i deem to be an ignorance.

This is so funny on so many levels.

 

[Viatos]

I think we will have to agree on disagreeing.

No. My disagreements do not come with a mutual acceptance clause attached.

But your arguements went only "it doesn't work like that ; it is "modifiying X with magic"".

As I did go through some effort to provide you a synopsis of FfH lore as relevant to the discussion I'd appreciate you skip the oversimplifications.

How can I not be tempted to answer that "how does modifying X with magic is incompatible with magic creating electronics-like circuits?".
It is not said anywhere that golem use a "spirit of a god". (only Barnaksus and the Mithril golem need it) Just that the crafter needs more understanding of enchantement.
Are you familiar enough with how enchantments work that you can tell me that with a 100%chance, even after the enchantment, each golem is a big block of stone/iron/wood and there is no restructuration of the atomes and materials, according to a logic that goes way beyond the crafters ability to imagine but that the innates working of enchantement magic and the god of enchantment can create and imagine ?

No, I am not 100% certain of that. But, as mentioned, Occam's Razor. There's no need to assume absurd, complex events when a simpler explanation exists given that there is no evidence of such reconfiguration and it would be in contradiction with the themes and mood of FfH.

If you can't tell me that, allow me to think as I want.

If you can't provide compelling evidence that magic makes robots, drop the argument. Ultimatums are exceptionally impolite. Particularly in an open forum where discussion of setting fluff and canon are encouraged.

to animate a monoblock of stone/wood you need one of 2 things :
-create mecanical joints or points of the statue that become flexible,
OR
-make the statue become living, forming joints and muscles ...Etc (see the dragons statues in R Hobbs books).

The Luchuirp craft articulate golems to make this process easier already, but that aside, you don't really need either of those things. The stone/wood/metal's innate properties can simply be changed, such that moving does not shatter them. Kind of like how a fireball changes fire's innate properties into something more like a rocket.

Thus, creating golems INDUCES at least 1 transformation of the atomes : creating mechanical joints or making that some points of the body become fluid enough that material can flow in order to not break the joints.
If that can happen, why can't the magical effect be modifying other parts of the golem without the crafters being aware of it ?
answer : It can! It is unprovable BUT un-refutable.

Unprovable, unrefutable arguments are dismissed in science and in logic, the bastions from which you make your assault. So this entire diatribe is self-defeating; it's illogical and unscientific. Occam's Razor would defeat it if you had a leg to stand on here, but you don't.

Last argument : I can still build golems after selling my enchantement mana to another civ. Thus golem do not need enchantement mana.

This is not an argument of any substance. The game has limitations that the lore does not. It doesn't work that way because it would be a waste of time and effort to make it work that way and then train the AI to understand it. The Luchuirp make golems through Enchantment. This is established canon.

Logic can always be applied to fantasy... you just have to use the appropriate starting points. Terry Prachets disc world is completly logical within himself IMO. But if you start with "real starting points" it is completly crazy.

This is MY argument, so obviously I agree with it; we have appropriate starting points (the One and his archangels, who became the gods; their relative omnipotence within their spheres; the nature of magic as an act of will) that you're completely disregarded.

 

[Seven05]

Um... all physicis mumbo jumbo, scientific explanations and magic aside... I added that option to the map script becuase I thought it was cool. Cool > magic > e = mc^2

Just sayin'

 

[Celeborn]

I support additions in the name of Cool(Tm)

 

[El Yahpo]

I don't like the ruins because they're purple, just sayin'

 

[Calavente]

Um... all physicis mumbo jumbo, scientific explanations and magic aside... I added that option to the map script becuase I thought it was cool. Cool > magic > e = mc^2

Just sayin'

I like that answer

 

[Seven05]

I don't like the ruins because they're purple, just sayin'

That I agree with, but I'm not responsible for the graphics used in RiFE