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AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

Discussion in 'Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn' started by 45°38'N-13°47'E, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Thanks, I will try to turn on logging and reproduce that crash.

    I understand that despotism is usable in modern eras but what about realism:)? North korea is not only country in the world which has stable boarders. Also liberal and democratic countries have agreed their boarders, culture cant move them..
     
  2. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    There are plenty of Monarchies and Dictatorships in the world. Most countries are not democracies. See: China.

    Tell that to the Ukraine.

    Edit: to expand on my comments a bit...

    It's western bias to assume that Democracies are the height of governance. They are not. Plenty of Democracies are dysfunctional and badly run. In general, successful democracies are the rarity, poorly run democracies are commonplace. Countries like the USA are an historical anomaly. Many countries have tried to emulate the US and have failed. Most people on Earth live in a dictatorship.
     
  3. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Yes, but most of the monarchies are actually democracies:) and Ukraine boarders are moved by "green mens" with very modern weapons not libraries or museums:lol:
    Maybe couple more "nice" civics with fixed boarders..? only a humble opinion.

    Here are the logs, I chose multiplayer scenario with AND2 15-player world map which comes with the mod. Crash:(
    Revision is 792, I checked that again.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Logs.7z
      File size:
      80.8 KB
      Views:
      18
  4. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    I edited my comment, but saw you already replied. Re-posting for visibility:

    To expand on my comments a bit...

    It's western bias to assume that Democracies are the height of governance. They are not. Plenty of Democracies are dysfunctional and badly run. In general, successful democracies are the rarity, poorly run democracies are commonplace. Countries like the USA are an historical anomaly. Many countries have tried to emulate the US and have failed. Most people on Earth live in a dictatorship.

    I'll take a look at the logs.
     
  5. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Thanks!

    And I pretty much agree with you but thats not the point. I really think there should be liberal/democratic option to use fixed boarders. Its not only ability to take land by force but way to defend against cultural conquest and connect resources. Its not correct that only dictatorships or intolerant religious civs get these benefits..
     
  6. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Just wonder...
    I don't think so, to tell the truth. Of course military strenght might be necessary to enforce another country's rule, but at least in some cases it looks to me that (to make a parallel with civilization), some ukrainian cities have revolted because the majority of their culture was russian (you might argue that someone used some spy mission to spread russian culture). So yes, culture is influencing borders even in the real world.
     
  7. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Yes yes, I do not disagree:)

    I only say that democracy and liberal civs also has stable boarders and they also use force to defend their boarders against foreign attackers or domestic groups (only unstable and weak state allows another state to move their boarders without fight, support from locals helps but guns are needed) and claim territories to achieve resources. Current civic system gives that possibility only monarchies, despotism and intolerant.
     
  8. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Just wonder...
    Mmmm. I'm not sure, I think the way it is now it's working very well. Possibly some of the new civics could also have fixed borders, but I'm not sure. Either Protectionism or Isolationism? The reason why I'm not sure is that those are Foreign policy although one might argue that if some people living on the border want to break away from your civ, that might become a foreign policy issue.
     
  9. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    If this is balance/gameplay issue, I have no real opinion..
    But if coal is realism then I dont understand current system. Theres no way that monarchy, dictator or fanatic religious system helps society to maintain stable boarders.

    One might even say that working democratic free society keeps your own people happy and united which leads strong state and very stable boarders.. those dictatorships and ISIS kind of intolerancies are actually more vulnerable to "cultural" conquest and current system is just the opposite:confused:
     
  10. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    Iraq is a democracy, so the ISIS argument only backs up my point that Democracies are unstable. ;)

    In the years when Saddam Hussian ran the country in an ironifisted dicatorship, terrorists never siezed a foothold. Al Qaeda, contrary to US propaganda, was never allowed to operate in Hussian's Iraq. The US wars and democracy have turned the country from a stable (if harsh) dictatorship, to an anarchic hellscape.
     
  11. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    I said working free united democracy wich Iraq hardly never was...?;) Believe or not we have here in europe some pretty democratic and working states and ukraine was first time since second WW when boarders were moved by force.. My point still stays, cruel force and terror is not the only way to maintain society peace, good foreign relations and yet keep your boarders stable:)

    Btw, did you look the logs? Is it me or something with later revisions..?
     
  12. 45°38'N-13°47'E

    45°38'N-13°47'E Deity

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    Just wonder...
    As for example with IRA or Basque people? Or Czech Republic and Slovakia? Or former Yugoslavia?
     
  13. rtt4a

    rtt4a Prince

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    Yes:) IRA and Basque never was real threat when it comes state boarders. Also both gave up their weapons and chose political way.. which is only possible in working democracy;)

    Czech Republic and Slovakia was a political process not a war, military force was never used or even thinking to be used. Former Yugoslavia started as civil war and result is recognized by the UN. No boarders outside Yugoslavia were moved.

    What is going on in Krimm and ukraine.. thats something new and scary, echoes to 1930s.. But Ukraine was more dictatorship than working democracy and still is long way to be working united democracy. Thats only underlines my point, what happened cant be happen or at least is very much harder to happen in united working democracy.
     
  14. Johnny Canuck

    Johnny Canuck Warlord

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    No, it was not with Advanced Start.

    It's strange, I haven't had this issue with my latest game, so I'm not sure what's going on.
     
  15. ponymushama

    ponymushama Chieftain

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    In SVN v792, once I choose the map 'RoM_Full_of_Resources 3.0', the game crash.
     
  16. Zeta Nexus

    Zeta Nexus Deity

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    How about turning off Fixed Borders when in anarchy?
     
  17. Arkatakor

    Arkatakor King

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    Where's that "Like" button...

    Regarding your statement about few functional democracies, one can say that the nordic countries (Norway, Sweden and Denmark) are pretty functional democracies. Sweden has a social democracy, which blends in benefits (low healthcare costs, free education, paid maternal / paternal leave etc) with democracy. The reason it works here and could not possibly work in the US is that the great majority of the people trust their government much unlike in the US.
     
  18. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    It's amazing what you learn when you stop listening to the media and actually research topics for yourself.
     
  19. CivFanCCS

    CivFanCCS Warlord

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    Just got Civ 4 reinstalled and am having some troubles with RAND (the reason I reinstalled in the first place).

    1. The installer will not allow me to select the install directory, it keeps trying to install on C:\ without any option to select another directory.

    2. So i decide to let it install it C:\Progam files\....

    It gets halftway though and I run out of space. It says I needed 1.71 gigs of free space but fails to include the size of the temp extraction, thus i ran out of disk.

    After canceling it didn't clean up. I had 1.79 gigs of free space of C:\ before the install and after canceling and deleting the C:\Program files\.... I now only have 356 megs.

    Probably some problem with the .net api's or something on win 7.

    Can you post a direct DL for a .rar, 7z or zip file instead of an executable?

    Downloading 900 megs from SVN @ 15.5k is killing me.

    I am going to try and re-download the installer but it looks like I got the full file the first time. Can you post an md5 / sha1 hash?

    About the discussion on boarders and democracies:

    1. Very rarely do boarders within modern stable democracies change. When they do, stable democracies defend them. (Falkins 1983)

    2. Even though Canada has a lot of culture in Upstate NY they would never gain any territory from the US. (A square on the map)

    3. Russian Ukraine revolted (Russian culture forced the revolt) and an armed insurgency occurred (supported by Russia). This is different from gaining a square of the map through cultural pressures as it is implemented in Civ 4.

    There are no MODERN instances of land just moving from one country to another without some armed conflict. Maybe a point where culture does not take land on the map at all and the only way to gain land is through force (current modern world).

    A better idea would be "disputed" territories for the modern era. Like southeast asia is now with Japan, Vietnam and China fighting over trade routes and islands. This could lead to wars, new random events, etc.
     
  20. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    The full installer is created by a now-defunct installer software and I agree it is not ideal. I guess we really have 4 options here:

    1.) Keep limping along with the current full installer, which is buggy
    2.) Find/Develop a new installer (big time sink)
    3.) Switch to dbkblk's installer (we have to support it / fix bugs ourselves on the existing codebase)
    4.) Abandon installers entirely, go back to providing 7z'd archive of the mod install folder. (Very easy to setup & automate, but extra work for users)

    MD5: 021BFFB1B70F77C31AB3A778E5D1E417

    SHA1: BF58E0EBADA1C9AED5891BDA4098D9B750E9094E
     

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