AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[JosEPh_II]

Oh, the picture with the spearman reminds of some strange behaviour that I have observed very often: If I give a stack a goto-order to some distant place, the game shows the way the stack will take as long as you keep the mousebutton pressed down. However, once you release and they start to move, they often take a very diffenrent route, as if it got recalculated immeadeately before starting. This can be quite annyoing, if your captured workers suddenly end their turn next to an enemy unit instead of on an safe tile (as suggested).
This is from a quite outdated build though (645).

That was addressed in C2C in version 31 iirc. It should be in the AI coding in AND SVN 658 and beyond.

JosEPh

 

[moosecandle]

Oh, the picture with the spearman reminds of some strange behaviour that I have observed very often: If I give a stack a goto-order to some distant place, the game shows the way the stack will take as long as you keep the mousebutton pressed down. However, once you release and they start to move, they often take a very diffenrent route, as if it got recalculated immeadeately before starting. This can be quite annyoing, if your captured workers suddenly end their turn next to an enemy unit instead of on an safe tile (as suggested).
This is from a quite outdated build though (645).

Fairly sure it still happens in the latest revision. I notice it all the time.

edit: Oops I started this reply before I saw JosEPh's post

 

[Rezca]

Fairly sure it still happens in the latest revision. I notice it all the time.

While not the exact same behavior, there's one other movement-related (bug?) that really annoys me that's still present in the latest revision and that's that units refuse to move into unrevealed terrain. Used to be naval only, but land units refuse to do so now too. So I either have to automate Explore (Which when I tell ships to do this they just run around in circles) or babysit their every movement and move them one tile at a time as they explore the unknown.
No other mod I've played or regular Civ does this, and I don't think 1.75 had this problem, so this is either a bug or a very strange feature.


Also there was a problem where double-clicking on a city would often bring up the Civopedia, usually on a resource article like Cotton or Iron, but I have yet to witness that in the latest revision. Wasn't at all fatal or game breaking, but like the black shroud movement prevention, it was very annoying ^^

 

[JosEPh_II]

That too was a problem in C2C (entering black tiles) but it too was addressed and fixed by koshling.

@Rezca,
When this comes up again take a screenshot before and after you give movement commands. Also a copy of the savegame at that time too and a description on how to duplicate the problem.

Thanks.

JosEPh

 

[SnoopDogg23]

@aggri1: it's exactly as Sgtslick described.

Now I have a question for some players: I need a report from people playing on huge maps at noble level; no matter what gamespeed, mapscript or options you're using, I need to know if you feel that techs are being discovered well before their "real" era. Specifically, I need to know which turn and year you or some other civ you've met entered medieval and/or renaissance era. I know it's a very specific question, but if someone is playing with this kind of settings, I could use this answer. If you have a savegame around that era, that could be very useful as well. Thank you in advance.

Hey 45 Degrees et al:

My comp can't handle a huge map, but I can do large on Noble. Is that ok?

I'll also report on what happens with the beelining of Mathematics.

Snoop

 

[Combat Wombat]

Maybe I am getting better but I doubt it. The AI seem to be getting progressively worse and worse. Just started a new game and I have gotten every single wonder all the way through the classical era. Playing on prince with advanced start build 659. Gonna have to kick it up two more notches just to get the challenge back to where it feels like it was at noble in 1.75.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

As you can see in the image below, this spearman has Arctic Combat 1 promotion which gives double movement speed in tundra. However, he can't move through this grassland/tundra tile at double speed. Promotion broken?

Spoiler :

Mmmm.. I feel it could be due to the fact you're standing on a forest, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure it was intended to work that way, but probably you lose some fractionary movement points when moving from forest to tundra. I'll have to check the code. Just let me know if it happened more than once or if it's a repeatable thing. Thank you Sgtslick.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Came across this, i'm at war with korea and he's sent in these undefended trebuchets as you can see in the picture below. These are capturable I think, but either way its just stupid and a clear bug or AI deficiency.

Spoiler :

* Edit *: Note that it actually worked out fine for him because I have no horses, light swordsman (strength 5) are my strongest unit and trebs (strength 8) do fine vs them. If I had horses they all drop like flies. I doubt that the AI considered this though.. I mean what if I had been able to trade for horses for instance?

I'm not sure AI isn't considering this; Koshling code makes AI pretty smart from what I've seen. I would need another test to see what happens if you have horses or stronger units, to see if AI leaves siege units undefended. I've seen AI using siege units this way and it worked pretty well in my game too; but I also didn't have stronger units.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@Zorn, Moosecandle, Rezca: I think the routing bug should have been fixed in the latest revision, but I think it's still there that other bug about black tiles. I'm delaying this fix to September so that we can add the new tech tree first.

@Rezca: thank you for your test, looks great; you've hit medieval era a bit too early for my comfort but I've seen it happening on huge maps, rarely on large maps. This kind of balancing work will also be delayed to september. Thank you again for your try.
Oh, and about the problem of double-clicking on a city that would often bring up the Civopedia: it's there in vanilla civ too AFAIK.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Hey 45 Degrees et al:

My comp can't handle a huge map, but I can do large on Noble. Is that ok?

I'll also report on what happens with the beelining of Mathematics.

Snoop

Sounds great SnoopDogg23! Let me know, thank you!

Edit: SnoopDogg23, it's very useful for me that you play on a large map; but if you want to play on huge or bigger maps, you could try with Viewports activated (under BUG options).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Maybe I am getting better but I doubt it. The AI seem to be getting progressively worse and worse. Just started a new game and I have gotten every single wonder all the way through the classical era. Playing on prince with advanced start build 659. Gonna have to kick it up two more notches just to get the challenge back to where it feels like it was at noble in 1.75.

Mmm... sounds strange, anyone else reporting this? I had exactly the opposite experience. With 1.75C AI didn't have a chance to build a wonder in my games, while now I'm struggling to keep ahead of other civs (at noble level!).

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I've had some strange happenings in my game.

1. SVN 659 on Downloaded mod, but only shows 657 on mouse over on flag, from what I've read, its a known issue, that's been resolved, but not uploaded.

2. Great commanders, don't gain any combat experience. I had only 1, it stayed at 5/5 and wouldn't advance any further in experience. The AI's end up having multiple Great commanders, again no experience.

3. Discovered treasures. This needs to be looked at

Spoiler :

Small Civs with under 3 cities, seem to find constantly treasure in the ONE city ruin. I've seen it twice in my current game (playing high to low game) One, the Turkish civilization found 7 or 8 treasures in 1 city ruin, and only had one city. My current Civ, the Vikings, had found over 10, with 1 city ruin. I myself, in my previous original civ, had 14 cities, but had only found 1 Treasure in all that time. I also only had 1 city ruin. But that was very late in my empire, as I kept all cities concurred.

4. Tech trading - The AI's seem extremely adverse to trading for techs. Even when I've only 4 turns of research, and they have nearly a full amount to research on my trade bait tech, they still ask for a ridiculous trade. If they really want the tech, for some reason, they'll throw every thing at it, just to get it, even if its not a monopoly tech. This has substantially changed from the previous SVN versions.

It may just be my game, I've recalculated a few times, made no difference, I'll try coping across the SVN again. May have corrupted it slightly.

 

[SnoopDogg23]

Sounds great SnoopDogg23! Let me know, thank you!

Edit: SnoopDogg23, it's very useful for me that you play on a large map; but if you want to play on huge or bigger maps, you could try with Viewports activated (under BUG options).

45 Degrees:

I believe I have rev658 (it says 657 because of the bug, but I just downloaded it last week). I'm on a large map at epic speed (savegame attached). I tried out Limited Religions, because the option sounded like a good idea (can't found more than one religion). Now, none of the civs founded a religion, and when I discovered Meditation, Buddhism wasn't founded in my civ (even though I'm almost positive I was first). I don't understand what happened here. I searched the forum and noticed another thread on this issue, but I never installed C2C on my comp, so I don't think the "Divine Prophets" option is the issue. The only caveat to my situation is that I have moved the AND2 folder in and out of my Mods folder (to exchange for the original AND). I moved AND2 back in, and this was my first game (not sure if that matters).

As for the beelining Math, the AI continues to do so, and then returns to slavery, etc. when it gets Math. On the way to Math, sometimes it will pick up Polytheism.

No wonders getting built at all by AI. Some AI started to build cities outside their capital, but some stay at 1 city.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the issues, as well as whether this game is salvageable without religions being founded and wonders being built.

Thanks,
Snoop

 

[Rezca]

That too was a problem in C2C (entering black tiles) but it too was addressed and fixed by koshling.

@Rezca,
When this comes up again take a screenshot before and after you give movement commands. Also a copy of the savegame at that time too and a description on how to duplicate the problem.

Thanks.

JosEPh

The savegame I posted earlier does the same thing, but here's some screenshots. THis happened with every unit I selected (Spies, galleys, workers...) every turn since the game started.

Right here I selected three military units, then told them to move to Ashur's capitol which was surrounded by black tiles. The game told me that was an invalid move route and offered no alternatives - like trying to tell a galley to enter the ocean when it can't cross ocean tiles yet, or having a Warrior try to move onto a new continent with no land route (Or Sea Tunnels) there.

It's very easy for me to reproduce - I just start a game, select a unit, and tell it to try moving into the black shroud. Immediately the game tells me they can't move there

Shown attached is where the units were, and where I was trying to move them. Again, this happens with any unit and at any distance. If there is some path there they'll try taking the long way around even if the black shroud is one tile thick.



*edit* I'm back on the test game going for the Renaissance Era, but none of the techs I can see state which bring you into what era upon researching, so I can't tell if the AI are nearing that era or are already in it (Alfonso is running around with Gunpowder and a few others in 626AD having gotten Gunpowder about 6 or 7 turns ago, but I can't tell if he's still in the Medieval or not. I can't see "Advances to 'X' Era" on any of the techs in the Technology Adviser... I don't know if it's something I did or what. The only file I removed from AND was a custom map so it can't be that.)
Also I've got four AIs at war with me now, Alfonso's army dwarfing mine, so barring some miracle or a cheat I don't know if I'll be making it to the Renaissance ^^;


*edit 2* I managed to snatch Gunpowder from Alfonso with a spy, but he's up Compass, Metallurgury, and who knows what else on me and before his statistics went hidden again he was at 0.4 to me on the power graph. He's got 22+ cities, and is producing units far faster than I can. I managed a sneak attack on him and razed one of his border cities (A size 18 too) but it didn't even slow him down. Ragnar who was a third of my power for the entirety of the game is now also dwarfing my army, Louis is demanding cash tributes from me and I feel he'll dogpile on me eventually too (He's already got -5 from repeated war declarations on his friend, but that friendship was completely one-sided. His alleged friend hated him for close borders, trading with their enemies, and religion and eventually declared on Louis. Alfonso swallowed up all of their cities pretty fast with Louis.)

I don't think I can turn this around with my skill in Civilization, at least not without the World Builder
The only good news right now is I vassalized Holy Rome a few turns before Alfonso declared on me and he's been actually hitting Aztec's cities pretty hard (One of Alfonso's vassals) while I'm busy at the front.
I've been in Folklore pretty much the entire game, for some reason. Never bothered changing out of it, which is a first for me.


*edit 3* Yeah another edit, but I just realized what probably made Alfonso go absolutely nuts in this game. I checked the Victory Conditions and settings screen and it said it was at Prince difficulty. Earlier around the end of BC years I noticed that Flexible Difficulty was on and I turned it off, but I didn't realize it had changed the difficulty that high. Who knows how long it's been running above Noble =/
Also I should add I have no idea how the threshold and other Flex-Difficulty works. I've only ever seen it change once or twice during a game, and usually going up.

I changed it back to Noble and hope that now I might be able to regain my lost footing - but it doesn't help that he's got 24 cities while the second AI only has 12 - and I only have 7!

*Final edit, I swear* So much for that theory. Two turns after I changed it back to Noble, with plans to huddle up in my remaining cities until I could adequately fight back, Ragnar declared war followed shortly by Ashur. So... yeah. I can start a new Huge-Noble game to make another test, with hopefully less disastrous results ^^;
I've never ever been driven down by the AI that quickly before, except for in one game when I tried out one of the Realms Beyond epics, but never in a normal game.

As a final note, is there any way to fully remove the Options Shortcut Reminder? It seems that every new game I start it insists on sticking around even with the Options Shortcut Reminder checkbox disabled in the options, and I have to fully exit out of Civ and restart just to get rid of it, which takes 2 - 3 minutes to do. Simply reloading the game doesn't remove it.
For me I can reproduce this problem easily. If I start a game and then exit out of it and start a new one, the shortcut reminder comes back and never goes away until I restart Civilization. Starting a new game freshly after launching Civ does not have this problem.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@SnoopDogg23,

The only caveat to my situation is that I have moved the AND2 folder in and out of my Mods folder (to exchange for the original AND). I moved AND2 back in, and this was my first game (not sure if that matters).

When you do this be very sure to Hold down the Shift key while either Mod versions loads. Otherwise the cached settings(and associated changes) Will mess up your games in both settings.

@Rezca,

Some of the things you are reporting sound like not clearing the Cache before starting a new game or coming back to a save game. Do you also play other versions of AND or RoM or even C2C between AND2.0 games? If you have please remember to clear the cache.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

Some of the things you are reporting sound like not clearing the Cache before starting a new game or coming back to a save game. Do you also play other versions of AND or RoM or even C2C between AND2.0 games? If you have please remember to clear the cache.

JosEPh

I've never actually cleared the cache before, so that may very well be the source of my problems right there.

I've only played C2C once, many months ago and it's been uninstalled from my computer for some time, and I haven't played any RoM since updating to 2.0. I do play Realism Invictus quite often though. As for other versions of AND I always start a Play Now game after changing versions, either finishing my current game before updating or simply abandoning it and starting a new one.
I exit out of the Play Now game immediately after taking my turn because I don't like using most of the options it defaults to

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just loaded you game (holding down Shift to clear my cache) and it want a Re-Calc immediately. Did not Re-Calc as I wanted to see what version you are playing.

Upon placing mouse over your flag it gives this details: AND Build 654 (saved frim 657).

You are using AND SVN version 654 to play a 657 game. Somehow you went backwards in time and are Not playing an Up to date SVN version. This has caused multiple problems for this saved game.

Edit: see screenshot.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

Just loaded you game (holding down Shift to clear my cache) and it want a Re-Calc immediately. Did not Re-Calc as I wanted to see what version you are playing.

Upon placing mouse over your flag it gives this details: AND Build 654 (saved from 657).

You are using AND SVN version 654 to play a 657 game. Somehow you went backwards in time and are Not playing an Up to date SVN version. This has caused multiple problems for this saved game.

JosEPh

That's interesting... I don't know how or why it did that, since it's saying 657 for me on my flag right now in the new game I started... And I'm pretty sure I started that Pangaea map on 657.

I'm also pretty sure I had removed all traces of the previous AND version before updating... Maybe I missed some files?
I did have to transfer that save file from one computer to another, the laptop I started it on never had Civilization installed on it so 657 was the only revision I ever had on it. My main laptop I transferred the savegame to was using 654 previously, I guess I didn't properly uninstall/remove that revision =/


Anyway, I've got a new Huge-Noble game going, this time I made sure to uncheck the varying difficulty option. Stonehenge fell very early not even 90 turns in, and the Oracle soon after. Roosevelt is trying to gun for Mathematics as usual, despite an estimated research time of 68 - 75 turns
He doesn't even have Agriculture or Hunting.

 

[JosEPh_II]

You Did start that game on a SVN 657 build but somehow last played it on a 654 build. Did it ask for a Re-Clac last time you started it?

If the game asks you for a Re-Calc it's is "usually" best to do so. Especially if you have a New Build install.

And Always clear the Cache when you Start a new game. Even moreso with a new version of the Mod you are using.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

It never asked for a Re-Calculation, no =/

So to clear the cache you just hold down Shift when it's on the loading screen immediately after selecting Launch/Start-Game?