AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[Vokarya]

Heya. I have a rev710 game in progress that I just got a slinger on. The coloration looks off compared to my other units (or maybe my slingers just like to feel pretty?)

That's deliberate. When I was looking for Slinger artworks, I found that unique English Slinger model that I just had to use. There are a few common Slingers, but England, Russia, and Viking get models that they don't share with any of the other regular art types.

I still do not know what causes that white Slinger bug. I know it is related to the SLINGER_MEDITERRANEAN model, and that it disappears as soon as you encounter any Archer unit (your own or another civ's).

 

[Mantriur]

Two issues:

1. In the nightly build I downloaded two days ago (May 23rd) religions aren't being founded. I did set a bunch of options for the game and was wondering if I maybe disabled religions somehow, but such a setting doesn't seem to exist. (Didn't use any of the religion options, except for the religion victory condition.)

2. This has been bothering me forever: Diplomatic penalties for declaring war on a civ or their friend doesn't seem to expire on snail speed. For months if not years I've never seen any of them expire, not even from earliest ages till future tech ... Start a few early wars, and your diplomatic relations are screwed for the rest of the game. How long are these supposed to last?


The game is getting better and better. Keep up the good work! Great to see that Afforess is back!

 

[Thunderbrd]

2. This has been bothering me forever: Diplomatic penalties for declaring war on a civ or their friend doesn't seem to expire on snail speed. For months if not years I've never seen any of them expire, not even from earliest ages till future tech ... Start a few early wars, and your diplomatic relations are screwed for the rest of the game. How long are these supposed to last?

We diagnosed this in C2C but the fix hasn't been implemented yet there as we're looking to do it in a fairly big way.

But to share what's been discovered on this topic, its really that most of the leaders haven't fully fleshed out their diplomacies tags - many don't have definitions given and the defaults are set to last forever.

 

[rtt4a]

Two issues:

1. In the nightly build I downloaded two days ago (May 23rd) religions aren't being founded. I did set a bunch of options for the game and was wondering if I maybe disabled religions somehow, but such a setting doesn't seem to exist. (Didn't use any of the religion options, except for the religion victory condition.)

2. This has been bothering me forever: Diplomatic penalties for declaring war on a civ or their friend doesn't seem to expire on snail speed. For months if not years I've never seen any of them expire, not even from earliest ages till future tech ... Start a few early wars, and your diplomatic relations are screwed for the rest of the game. How long are these supposed to last?


The game is getting better and better. Keep up the good work! Great to see that Afforess is back!

1. issue..
I had the same issue and it was because divine prophets option was on. Its invisible and should be off by default but somehow new games started with it Finally I made it visible and turn it off manually and religions founded again.. Clearing cache didint help.
I always use your nightly builds, thx for that

 

[Thunderbrd]

1. issue..
I had the same issue and it was because divine prophets option was on. Its invisible and should be off by default but somehow new games started with it Finally I made it visible and turn it off manually and religions founded again.. Clearing cache didint help.
I always use your nightly builds, thx for that

@Afforess: take note that we tried to remove the game options you'd gotten rid of and found that the options on current running games were suddenly adjusted as a result. Apparently both the enums and the gameoptions infos files must maintain the memory of all options that have been included previously as I has suspected they did or it will cause the options selected to be off kilter past the point of deletion.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Two issues:

1. In the nightly build I downloaded two days ago (May 23rd) religions aren't being founded. I did set a bunch of options for the game and was wondering if I maybe disabled religions somehow, but such a setting doesn't seem to exist. (Didn't use any of the religion options, except for the religion victory condition.)

2. This has been bothering me forever: Diplomatic penalties for declaring war on a civ or their friend doesn't seem to expire on snail speed. For months if not years I've never seen any of them expire, not even from earliest ages till future tech ... Start a few early wars, and your diplomatic relations are screwed for the rest of the game. How long are these supposed to last?


The game is getting better and better. Keep up the good work! Great to see that Afforess is back!

1. Guys, I suspect the problem is always the same, I've stressed it a thousand times and it's reported in every download thread, first post:

Delete CivilizationIV.ini and CivilizationIV.bak in your Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword folder, it should recreate itself when you launch the game again.

When you switch from an older revision to one where number of gameoptions has been changed, your ini files still contains the same game options that probably don't exist anymore (or maybe there are some new ones). Hence, some options you've chosen don't get activated while you accidentally activate some hidden gameoptions without noticing. Delete that ini file and its backup copy (or simply rename them), and you will be fine.

2. About diplomatic penalties, they've been changed and scaled for gamespeed in rev721 so you should be fine if you download the last revision.

 

[Mythos845]

To all those that have worked on and still working on this great mod, my thanks. I just started playing again, and it looks like there have been quite a few improvements!

There is one minor bug which I'd like to report. When starting a game and using the 'Regenerate Map' function, you can glitch the game into giving you extra science. If you build your city and then Regenerate Map, your science carries over to the new map.

I have the latest svc version and cleared out my .ini files just to make sure.

 

[Rezca]

I've been noticing something with Work Boat automation in AND for a while now, but I thought I'd ask now anyway...


A'right, sometimes when I set a Work Boat to Automate Improvements, it will just sit in the city it was built in forever, even if there are unimproved resources it can reach and access. As an example I have a city on the coast at the northern end of the continent, and half way down is a Fish resource that is unimproved, but the work boat just sits in that city for decades on end without leaving it. There is no ice, ocean, blockades, enemy units, or unexplored territory along that path and I'm not at war with anyone.

Sometimes I'll put them on automation and they'll zip right over to a resource and improve it, but it seems they'll only do so if it's close by. I can't recall if they would do this in regular BTS or not, but I have to say I doubt it.

If the resource is close enough I'll just improve it myself, but sometimes - especially on larger maps - I can't be sure where there are unimproved resources, especially after a war with lots of naval action or after re-loading a game after being away for a while. Also I admit to being a tad lazy at times

 

[JosEPh_II]

I've been noticing something with Work Boat automation in AND for a while now, but I thought I'd ask now anyway...


A'right, sometimes when I set a Work Boat to Automate Improvements, it will just sit in the city it was built in forever, even if there are unimproved resources it can reach and access. As an example I have a city on the coast at the northern end of the continent, and half way down is a Fish resource that is unimproved, but the work boat just sits in that city for decades on end without leaving it. There is no ice, ocean, blockades, enemy units, or unexplored territory along that path and I'm not at war with anyone.

Sometimes I'll put them on automation and they'll zip right over to a resource and improve it, but it seems they'll only do so if it's close by. I can't recall if they would do this in regular BTS or not, but I have to say I doubt it.

If the resource is close enough I'll just improve it myself, but sometimes - especially on larger maps - I can't be sure where there are unimproved resources, especially after a war with lots of naval action or after re-loading a game after being away for a while. Also I admit to being a tad lazy at times

At one time workboats could be used to "scout" the world. The AI did this all the time. It was deemed an AI cheat (player could do it to) and so the Range of a workboat was shortened to keep it close to your empires border. Build a city near that resource and your workboat will get right on it.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

At one time workboats could be used to "scout" the world. The AI did this all the time. It was deemed an AI cheat (player could do it to) and so the Range of a workboat was shortened to keep it close to your empires border. Build a city near that resource and your workboat will get right on it.

JosEPh

This particular resource is within the cross and workable range of one of my core cities actually. I just didn't notice this resource wasn't hooked up until recently
The neighboring fish resource (Just two tiles away) was improved though, maybe it got pillaged or maybe I just never noticed it.

I had the next city in que put out a work boat and had it automate (Lazy) and noticed it was never moving.


The Work Boat already has "Cannot reveal undiscovered territory" on it which should prevent exploring of the world, so why does its automation range need to be restricted on top of that?

 

[dbkblk]

Delete CivilizationIV.ini and CivilizationIV.bak in your Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword folder, it should recreate itself when you launch the game again.[/B]

Just to point out that i've integrated the deletion of GameOptions setting and the cache folder after each update within the launcher.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This particular resource is within the cross and workable range of one of my core cities actually. I just didn't notice this resource wasn't hooked up until recently
The neighboring fish resource (Just two tiles away) was improved though, maybe it got pillaged or maybe I just never noticed it.

I had the next city in que put out a work boat and had it automate (Lazy) and noticed it was never moving.


The Work Boat already has "Cannot reveal undiscovered territory" on it which should prevent exploring of the world, so why does its automation range need to be restricted on top of that?

I never said it's "automation range" was restricted, just it's usage range and why. Reading to much into my post or I was not clear enough?

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

I never said it's "automation range" was restricted, just it's usage range and why. Reading to much into my post or I was not clear enough?

JosEPh

"so the Range of a workboat was shortened to keep it close to your empires border. Build a city near that resource and your workboat will get right on it."

I assumed that was what you meant yes ^^;

A work boat built in a city just a few tiles away from a resource will have the work boat dart right over to it when automated, but if it's anywhere else in your borders - even on the same continent - the work boat just sits there idle until you move it yourself.

I have pretty much all the coasts and waters around my continent fully explored, and I'm not at war with anyone (At the time) either so there is really no reason why that boat shouldn't move down south to connect that fish resource, but no I had to do it myself because the boat stubbornly refused to leave the city it was built in

It was an 18 or so turn trip, to a tile two squares away from the city it was near (Thus inside its "Fat cross"), and the trip required no entering ocean tiles or anything. Really, absolutely no reason for the boat automation to not send it down there at all.

 

[JosEPh_II]

No, no real reason it shouldn't do what you would think it should do. But, just another reason and example of why I rarely if ever use "automated" anything in any Civ IV BtS mod. Once you Mod the base game it may take sometime to find out all the ramifications.

Did the automated workboat act differently in previous AND versions? Is this a relatively new thing? Or just a "new" observance (just caught your attention this time) of maybe an old old problem with automated AI?

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

No, no real reason it shouldn't do what you would think it should do. But, just another reason and example of why I rarely if ever use "automated" anything in any Civ IV BtS mod. Once you Mod the base game it may take sometime to find out all the ramifications.

Did the automated workboat act differently in previous AND versions? Is this a relatively new thing? Or just a "new" observance (just caught your attention this time) of maybe an old old problem with automated AI?

JosEPh

The longer a game runs - especially on larger maps - the more I use automations. Especially for spreading religion, having workers build updated routes (Just routes!),work boats, and *especially* automating airstrikes for some planes. This last one is a huge reason I lose interest in long-running AND games and don't often bother with any mapsizes beyond Large and any speeds past Epic. If Automate Airstrike was broken, I wouldn't even bother with anything Post-Industrial.

I just lose interest in a game once there's too many factors demanding my attention every single turn of a game. It wasn't so bad in BTS since games were only 300 ~ 500 turns long, but in AND when games can last over a thousand turns? Even without the many new features it just gets so tedious for me to not use automations of some kind. Especially since Stealth Bombers have an absolutely absurd operation range even when unpromoted. So every turn I have to specifically pick each of my 40 bombers and have them one-by-one target a tile in a 18 tile range, each turn for the next 200 turns? Uh, I'll stick with the automations thanks


I can't really remember if they did or not. I remember in the 1.75 edition things like barbarian activity being absolutely perfect (Still feels a bit lackluster in the current Rev), and the dreaded static tiles of absolute culture control around cities, etc... And one past revision where missionary automation was broken - well, it seemed broken anyway. Missionaries would either just stand there or shuffle around a bit aimlessly but rarely ever actually spread their religion. I don't remember if the work boats ever had any problems or when I first started noticing it. It's been going on for a while though.

Hardly a "big issue" in any sense, it's a lot like the stack pillaging not working in AND. Just a minor inconvenience that simply requires a few more clicks on my part to get the same result

As for the pillaging thing... Yeah I brought that up before but it wasn't deemed to be a problem. It really isn't, but it just feels so strange after coming back from BTS or pretty much any other mod. Have a stack of say Horse Archers on a big fat Cottage cluster or Shaft Mine, then hit pillage and in one quick motion all the improvements and even the road under it will be gone - if ya have enough units parked there. Made for conquest and ruining an enemy economy so much quicker, but in AND you have to do it unit-by-unit. Pillage once, one improvement gone, wait for animation to finish, then click it again. Repeat until the tile is bare.

Then the Black Shroud movement, can't move any unit of any kind into a black 'unexplored' tile of any size. Have to either set a caravel to explore on its own, or move it tile by tile every turn since anything that goes into an unexplored space is considered an invalid move in AND/C2C

Like with the fishing boats: Just requires a few more clicks to achieve the same result.


There's more important things to be concerned with fixing / balancing than looking into these things, but even so I do look forward to the day they might be solved

 

[JosEPh_II]

The automated parts of the AI as koshling once said in C2C are, " minimal at best and down right bad the rest of the time". I do know some progress was made for the City Govenor AI in C2C. But not nearly enough for me to use it on a regular basis, ever.

JosEPh

 

[Rezca]

The automated parts of the AI as koshling once said in C2C are, " minimal at best and down right bad the rest of the time". I do know some progress was made for the City Govenor AI in C2C. But not nearly enough for me to use it on a regular basis, ever.

JosEPh

City Governor I mostly leave on for secondary cities or for cities under threat (Since having to re-assign the tiles every single turn because a unit is walking around outside of it that I may or may not be able to take care of at the time is annoying!). For core cities or ones I want to specialize, I'll do it myself. For the most part though the governor does a good enough job. It's in some cases though I get annoyed with C2C/AND's governor since it seems obsessed with hiring Scientists whenever I tell it to emphasize Commerce
Other than that, it does the job just fine.

I haven't had any real problems with Automate Airstrike or Automate Hunt either. I have my shores secured, so I build a few extra Frigates/Submarines/whatever and send them out to do some damage while I focus on specific parts of the battlefield. Automate Pillage doesn't always work, but the other two do just fine. If I need to bomb something specific I will - but I don't want to have to individually give those orders to 40, 60, 80, or even 200 or more bombers/fighters every single turn. At that point I don't care how 'flawed' the automation AI is. When micromanagement becomes the only way the game can be played, I start a new one. Remove all the additional automations the mod has to offer and that's all the late game is.

Micromanagement in small doses, like in the early game or to nail a key wonder... Fine. I can handle that. Doing so for every single unit and every single city in a massive empire, with potentially hundreds of units demanding your attention every turn for what could be a 200 ~ 600 turn endgame? No, not sticking around for that.

I don't have the attention span nor the patience to baby sit every single city I found for every turn of a game that won't end for potentially thousands of turns, hand picking every tile and specialist it could potentially build - especially when enemy units are nearby and force it to stop working a tile. Having to do the same with aircraft that have a borderline broken field of operation is the same deal - Too much space to cover with too many units.

That's where my gamestyle differs. I've quit a great deal of games that I could have won or kept going on because it was getting too boring

Automations aren't perfect and they never will be, but they do relieve a great deal of the stress and tedium AND's late game causes me. Where I can have a secondary navy seeking out stuff to attack and pillage while I direct my elite navies around personally, have some groups of jets and bombers pillaging enemy lands with their insane operational range while I have a few on hand to target incoming stacks or pillage Oil / Bauxite / Uranium myself... Directing a city's specialists and worked tiles for optimal output when needed and to keep specialist cities pure... I don't 100% rely on automations, but AND/C2C would lose a great amount of appeal for me (At least in the mid to late game) without them.

 

[aggri1]

An automation I would very much like to see is the action to clean up radiation. I wouldn't expect that this would be hard to program, either. At the moment, it's extremely tedious to tell my hordes of clones to go around cleaning up radiation, manually.

The issue that radioactive clouds can strike random isolated tiles anywhere on the map is also annoying, though...

 

[Rezca]

An automation I would very much like to see is the action to clean up radiation. I wouldn't expect that this would be hard to program, either. At the moment, it's extremely tedious to tell my hordes of clones to go around cleaning up radiation, manually.

The issue that radioactive clouds can strike random isolated tiles anywhere on the map is also annoying, though...

This would be especially useful if you play with advanced nukes on!

I'd toss my vote in for this, and perhaps include Sanitizing automation in with the standard fallout, so worker units (Naval and land) will clean up biological waste along with the nuclear waste.



Hmm... Does AND handle the global warming / radioactive dust mechanics any differently than standard BTS? Other than of course the automatically turning a tile into desert ^^

 

[Noyyau]

What bugs me rolleyes is that it is not possible to select multiple land units together if they are loaded on ships.

Say I have 4 galleys carrying 8 axemen and they end the turn exactly near the tile where I want to disembark the axemen. Either I have to wait until the next turn and "send" the galleys to the land tile (thus making everyone disembark there), or I have to manually select every single axeman and tell them to hop on land. Ctrl or Alt or Shift clicking does not work, only one land unit loaded is ever selected.

Also, it would be quite nice if it were possible again to just send a unit straight into the unknown, and not have to click a destination every three tiles (especially with Caravels exploring the ocean).



About automations: I only ever use the upgrade routes one as railroading a continent spanning empire can get quite tedious. A few months ago I had tried the automate spread religion, but the missionaries just sat there and didn't move from the city, so I hadn't bothered with that anymore.

Is automate explore even working? The few times I tried that, the unit just didn't move.