AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

[JosEPh_II]

@Ostix,
Thanks for the report. A screenshot would be nice, but...Are you sure you picked Marathon speed? No way your Capital went to 5 pop in 15 turns. Maybe 75 turns on Normal. A save game when the Capital hit 5 pop would also be helpful.

I started a new 649 game last night, Prince on Huge Archipelago, Epic Speed, and it was well past 3000BC before my capital hit 5 pop. At 22AD it's only 11 pop with Horse, corn, Apples, river, coast, and Clams. Lack of gold has been a serious handicap for me so far.

Also remember this version is still a part of the Merge process and is not complete or fully balanced.

JosEPh

 

[Ostix]

@Ostix,
Thanks for the report. A screenshot would be nice, but...Are you sure you picked Marathon speed? No way your Capital went to 5 pop in 15 turns. Maybe 75 turns on Normal. A save game when the Capital hit 5 pop would also be helpful.

I started a new 649 game last night, Prince on Huge Archipelago, Epic Speed, and it was well past 3000BC before my capital hit 5 pop. At 22AD it's only 11 pop with Horse, corn, Apples, river, coast, and Clams. Lack of gold has been a serious handicap for me so far.

Also remember this version is still a part of the Merge process and is not complete or fully balanced.

JosEPh

Well, I don't have screenshots from that particular game, but I have been able to reproduce the "bug" and you can see that city still grows way too fast for that game speed and how much food city produces. Let me know if images are clear enough

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just compared the IGrowthModifier for Marathon for version 649 to 648 they are the same. In fact all the Gamespeed modifiers are the same.

Sorry, but I don't see a "bug" but a preference. Your Capital will hit pop 3 in 2 turns ~ turn 19 or 20, but after that your food producing tiles drop off significantly If you borders don't expand. If you had not had Wheat in your 1st ring of tiles and it being next to a river, you would not even hit pop 3 for another 7+ turns. Again I don't see a "bug" but just a good start position.

Maybe you should try the Eternity gamespeed as it's double the time of the marathon setting.

In my Epic game I actually ran out of things to build and had to set cities to "Idle" to keep maint costs down. Also had to scrap lower units like Warriors after I built Javelineers to keep from going in the Red on finances. And research slider kept dropping significantly too.

JosEPh

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

@Ostix, you're right I suppose; I know the game is not very well balanced at the moment. Problem is that changing the code sometimes is throwing the game off balance and since there are many factors to balance the game, the process isn't very easy. For example the game can be balanced for a certain set of parameters Blitz-Noble-Large and not for Marathon-Noble-Standard. My goal is to balance the game for every set of parameters; for the moment, the best combination is Blitz-Noble-Large. I've started with this set because I need to test many games to make sure everything works. Once this is ok, I'll start with Blitz-Noble-OtherMapsizes, then with OtherGamespeeds-Noble-OtherMapsizes and finally with different difficulty levels. But it will indeed take some time and I guess it won't be never perfect because for example Terra maps where you start with every civ on the same continent develops faster than PerfectMongoose (which are great, IMHO). Not to mention using/not using tech diffusion and/or Revolution and/or Barbarian Civs.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

You're right Joseph but I had to change iGrowthPercent in Erainfos.xml for Ancient and Classical Era. It's a temporary change, I'm experimenting because AI wasn't developing very well with previous values. Next step will be to restore previous value and to change iAIGrowthPercent in Handicap file. * It's just a try. As you can see there are no problems for Joseph and problems for Ostix because of different settings, but hopefully I will be able to enhance balance in the game one way or another.


*Of course doing this will change AIGrowthPercent for EVERY Era, which is not what I want. So as you can see it's a tricky puzzle to solve.

 

[Ostix]

Just compared the IGrowthModifier for Marathon for version 649 to 648 they are the same. In fact all the Gamespeed modifiers are the same.

Sorry, but I don't see a "bug" but a preference. Your Capital will hit pop 3 in 2 turns ~ turn 19 or 20, but after that your food producing tiles drop off significantly If you borders don't expand. If you had not had Wheat in your 1st ring of tiles and it being next to a river, you would not even hit pop 3 for another 7+ turns. Again I don't see a "bug" but just a good start position.

Maybe you should try the Eternity gamespeed as it's double the time of the marathon setting.

In my Epic game I actually ran out of things to build and had to set cities to "Idle" to keep maint costs down. Also had to scrap lower units like Warriors after I built Javelineers to keep from going in the Red on finances. And research slider kept dropping significantly too.

JosEPh

I see what you're saying but still, production time for Warriors and Javelineers and other units seem little ridicilous for Marathon speed. What I think is, most of the time city will be on idle because not many buildings are available that early (which reminds me, research times seem normal on this speed and difficulty) and having large army at the beginning will just burden your budget.

Also, what if city had 2 food sources and if it was settled on flood plains? City would grow enormously fast, and lacking happy and health resources will just end up having city on hold with growth. This might even have balance issues because some civs might end up in hills/tundra and others on plains/flood plains/grassland

 

[JosEPh_II]

What you are bringing up is some of the "balance" issues 45*38'N has stated will need to be addressed. Please understand svn 649 is not balanced but another level of implementation before we can get AND2.1 out.

Thanks for your input too.

JosEPh

 

[Ostix]

What you are bringing up is some of the "balance" issues 45*38'N has stated will need to be addressed. Please understand svn 649 is not balanced but another level of implementation before we can get AND2.1 out.

Thanks for your input too.

JosEPh

But of course, I understand everything you say, I was just expressing my thoughts and experiences on the mod. Keep up the superb work

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

It was my fault, I must have copied a broken svn version across, I downloaded again, and copied the correct directory, and it now works...sorry for the trouble.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

It was my fault, I must have copied a broken svn version across, I downloaded again, and copied the correct directory, and it now works...sorry for the trouble.

Can't download it. It says "Invalid Attachment specified. "

Edit: ah, ok, no problem then

 

[Onotoley]

For anyone who had problems with it: nukes should have been fixed in the next revision I'll release in the next days. A part of the code was missing, sorry, my fault. And now AI should be able to build many more nukes. I've had some test games, it usually goes like this: either anyone pass the "No nuke" resolution before anyone build nukes or the situation might get very dangerous. I had a game when the world became a totally nuked wasteland because of 2 AIs exchanging nukes; and I really mean that most of the world was covered with fallout.

oh it sounds great.
What about prices for unit-upgrading? Im uploaded my savegame some posts ago. After uploading latest version - Price for upgrading units decreases too and not changing after increasing difficulty in "flexibly difficulty" menu. I think it bug?

 

[Sgtslick]

Spoiler :

Just compared the IGrowthModifier for Marathon for version 649 to 648 they are the same. In fact all the Gamespeed modifiers are the same.

Sorry, but I don't see a "bug" but a preference. Your Capital will hit pop 3 in 2 turns ~ turn 19 or 20, but after that your food producing tiles drop off significantly If you borders don't expand. If you had not had Wheat in your 1st ring of tiles and it being next to a river, you would not even hit pop 3 for another 7+ turns. Again I don't see a "bug" but just a good start position.

Maybe you should try the Eternity gamespeed as it's double the time of the marathon setting.

In my Epic game I actually ran out of things to build and had to set cities to "Idle" to keep maint costs down. Also had to scrap lower units like Warriors after I built Javelineers to keep from going in the Red on finances. And research slider kept dropping significantly too.

JosEPh

After trying to start a new game with rev649 I can confirm that the costs of things are really weird. For example, on quick speed, large map, ancient start, deity. A settler costs 110 hammers, a worker costs 10 hammers, a warrior costs 6 hammers. Also the techs are way slower. In rev648 certain early techs would take 3 or 4 turns on quick speed, they're taking 12 turns in rev649. As mentioned, 6 food required for pop 2 can't be right. The most obvious cost change is the worker one though, 10 hammers is obviously bogus. It must have something to do with gatherers from c2c or something, I don't know but its definitely not intended. Something has inadvertently changed the costs of things. Is there a way to put the 648 cost of things into the game so that we can enjoy the changes of 649 but also the balance of 648?

I was curious and had a look at the CIV4UnitInfos.xml and the worker icost for both 648 & 649 is 60. The itrain in the gamespeed CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml for quick is 97, so doesn't that mean a worker should cost 58 or 59 hammers, not 10? What is mucking it up I wonder?

Ah ok, its the civ4erainfos.xml
649:
<Type>ERA_ANCIENT</Type>
<iGrowthPercent>15</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>15</iTrainPercent>
648:
<Type>ERA_ANCIENT</Type>
<iGrowthPercent>100</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>150</iTrainPercent>

Personally I thought the balance in 648 was ok, certainly it didn't need such drastic changes as those present in the new civ4erainfos.xml. I'm not sure if these changes are intentional or not? Anyway.. Can I simply use the 648 civ4erainfos.xml in 649 while waiting for new revision 45°38'N-13°47'E?

You're right Joseph but I had to change iGrowthPercent in Erainfos.xml for Ancient and Classical Era. It's a temporary change, I'm experimenting because AI wasn't developing very well with previous values. Next step will be to restore previous value and to change iAIGrowthPercent in Handicap file. * It's just a try. As you can see there are no problems for Joseph and problems for Ostix because of different settings, but hopefully I will be able to enhance balance in the game one way or another.


*Of course doing this will change AIGrowthPercent for EVERY Era, which is not what I want. So as you can see it's a tricky puzzle to solve.

Only read this AFTER I went hunting through everything lol


Here is the old civ4erainfos.xml from 648 for anyone who wants it and isn't sure what to do, just extract this into ur rise of mankind folder and the cost of things will be the same as they were in earlier versions.

 

[Rezca]

I think I'll play another Small Pangaea game or two like this before using that "fix" ^^

Is rather amusing to take over the world with a throng of archers in the first 100 turns of the game
Although... In this revision land units are having the same pathing issues naval units were having and any move that would take them into unexplored territory can't be made. The game suggested a 20+ turn route to get past two tiles of fog at one point o_O
Everything in there is flat plains, and some forest.

Weird ^^

 

[Onotoley]

The game suggested a 20+ turn route to get past two tiles of fog at one point o_O
Everything in there is flat plains, and some forest.

So, what is it? Maybe my english is too weak, because to me the problem does not reach. Units can not get directions "go into deep" uncharted territory, yes, always has been. This is not a bug, it game mechanics. Or that I do not understand?

 

[Rezca]

So, what is it? Maybe my english is too weak, because to me the problem does not reach. Units can not get directions "go into deep" uncharted territory, yes, always has been. This is not a bug, it game mechanics. Or that I do not understand?

Deep? That's one single tile into uncharted territory they can't go into. Nothing deep about that

In a regular game outside AND I can send a Caravel out dozens of tiles into the unknown, as well as Scouts, Warriors, missionaries, settlers, even world-builder added animals.

Earlier AND revisions I could send land units into uncharted territory as well, and I could do the same with naval units.

I can't remember the revision but I think it was before Rev 345, I had my naval units scouting - I just picked a few and told half to go to east, the others west, in an attempt to get the +1 Water movement - more than 30 tiles into uncharted territory and they gladly accepted.

 

[Onotoley]

Well ... okay, maybe you're right, but for me it probably seems so uncritical that I forgot it was the original game.

 

[Rezca]

Compared to other things, no it's not critical at all - it's just a tad annoying ^^
Especially if I misclick without noticing what sort of moveroute the game is going to send my troops on. It's not too fun having to babysit my scouts and move them tile by tile either because they refuse to enter unexplored terrain.

 

[Sgtslick]

Not sure if you want to bother with this or not since you are going to be updating the DLL soon anyway, but I keep crashing when trying to end turn in this game (rev649). Save and minidump.dmp included in the .rar

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

1. Nanite diffuser doesn't have an icon for the tech.
2. Sanitise is listed twice in the bug options, Automations.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I get the same error in 2 of my saved games, one from SVN 610 using the 649 version to play and one from a save using 649, both will play for a number of turns, then suddenly they will crash on the growth of a city.

I also looked at Sgt sticks game, opened it up in world builder, no cities about to be taken or auto raised anywhere. It too will crash on the growth of a city.


I'll attach the logs, but it shows growth in various cities, and bang, it will crash. Log is from Stg Sticks game,