Animals and Metals

[Thunderbrd]

Horse Trainer needs Horse Farm (old requirement of Tamed Horse) - vicinity OR Herd Horse - resource in city OR Central Breeder - Horse - resource anywhere in empire or traded by AI.

So the only way you can get access if you don't have either the normal improved horse in vicinity or a horse herd building is to have the Central Breeder, right? If that's true then I think we're on track. It actually makes more sense because it would mean that we don't have a huge glut of horse resources being introduced screwing up corps and it also means that you still need to maintain your source of horse bonus whatever it may be to keep the Central Breeder working properly. OR actually give yourself a new source with a tamed horse.

I like that adjustment to plan myself.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Why is there concern over Corps being screwed up?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why is there concern over Corps being screwed up?

There's already a lot of things that need to be considered to make Corps not so astoundingly out of balance as they are now. Corps were designed on an assumption that all resources in the game would roughly be introduced into the game at a similar frequency to one another and of course we destroy that assumption. But the more we can keep from doing so the better. A lot has to be rethought for corps... in the meantime not making them worse off than they are is probably a good thing.

 

[raxo2222]

So the only way you can get access if you don't have either the normal improved horse in vicinity or a horse herd building is to have the Central Breeder, right? If that's true then I think we're on track. It actually makes more sense because it would mean that we don't have a huge glut of horse resources being introduced screwing up corps and it also means that you still need to maintain your source of horse bonus whatever it may be to keep the Central Breeder working properly. OR actually give yourself a new source with a tamed horse.

I like that adjustment to plan myself.

Yes, but once you build Tamed Horse you can place Horse Herd in city or place Horse bonus somewhere and now you have sustainable source of Horses.
Now you can paint whole map in horses in all plots without resources reliably earlier - late Ancient at worst instead of Medieval unless you simply steal that AI city with horses nearby.
Before that change you couldn't get Tamed Horses without buying them or without subduing them to place horse herd (both methods are unreliable and depend on many variables).
That is Tamed Horse used to require Horse Farm instead of Horse Trainer (proxy for Herd OR Central Breeder OR Farm).
Great Farmer is halfway to tanks. Now you can get horses/camels/elephants quarter way to tanks at worst.

As for corporations in general you could do something similar with Standard Ethanol (Uses Potatoes, Rice, and few other plant resources):
Flat maps full of land and no hills are best for this - with great farmer unlocked in Medieval era you can plant those plants everywhere and then reap what you sowed with Standard Ethanol (Industrial era corporation) - huge boost to productivity.
In meantime cities would be bigger with all that food resources.

That is generally resource placing (including buildings like herds and others that give map resources) units "break" corporations.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yes, but once you build Tamed Horse you can place Horse Herd in city or place Horse bonus somewhere and now you have sustainable source of Horses.

Right. As intended, yes.

Now you can paint whole map in horses in all plots without resources reliably earlier - late Ancient at worst instead of Medieval unless you simply steal that AI city with horses nearby.

Yeah, that's the issue for the AI development on this. Teaching them NOT to do this, to exert SOME restraint, quite a bit really.

Actually, I need some assistance with this from everyone:

From your perspective as a player, if your Tamed Animals can place themselves as bonuses on plots, what's your policy? Take up all the plots you can? (Especially knowing that you're taking away from other placement opportunities to come like from Great Farmers and maybe much much more on its way?) How would you define your player policy on this? Do you try to put, say, Horses, in every city you can, just one everywhere? Do you pick a couple of cities and give them horses? How many? Is it a percentage of the amount of cities you have in the empire or a fixed number such as say 3? Do you try to give them to your core cities or to your developing cities to help them grow faster? I need to understand how YOU would think the AI should behave on this matter.

That is generally resource placing (including buildings like herds and others that give map resources) units "break" corporations.

True but my concern was more about buildings doubling up a source just to double it. I'm ok with placements strengthening corps because there's still a limit to that in how many plots can actually HAVE resources, but when one city generates 3 horses to ensure that it has vicinity access it gets a bit much. Ultimately, I think your answer was better than mine because it avoids doing this but achieves the same vicinity requirement results. Good job.

NOW we need to replicate this entire string of setup for all other map bonus animals, imo. Well, once we have the details on the Breeding Center hammered out at least, and whether we can get DH to go along with what has so far been a unanimous consensus that we shouldn't be trying to keep them from being constructable where vicinity access already exists. @raxo2222 would you look into what tags we'd want to use to give say a +10% bonus to build speed to horse mounted and horse assisted combat classes for us? Not asking you to implement them yet, just to be ready to if we can all agree this would be a cool way to make the building worth it to build wherever you really want to train your horse based units.

 

[raxo2222]

Actually, I need some assistance with this from everyone:

From your perspective as a player, if your Tamed Animals can place themselves as bonuses on plots, what's your policy? Take up all the plots you can? (Especially knowing that you're taking away from other placement opportunities to come like from Great Farmers and maybe much much more on its way?) How would you define your player policy on this? Do you try to put, say, Horses, in every city you can, just one everywhere? Do you pick a couple of cities and give them horses? How many? Is it a percentage of the amount of cities you have in the empire or a fixed number such as say 3? Do you try to give them to your core cities or to your developing cities to help them grow faster? I need to understand how YOU would think the AI should behave on this matter.


True but my concern was more about buildings doubling up a source just to double it. I'm ok with placements strengthening corps because there's still a limit to that in how many plots can actually HAVE resources, but when one city generates 3 horses to ensure that it has vicinity access it gets a bit much. Ultimately, I think your answer was better than mine because it avoids doing this but achieves the same vicinity requirement results. Good job.

NOW we need to replicate this entire string of setup for all other map bonus animals, imo. Well, once we have the details on the Breeding Center hammered out at least, and whether we can get DH to go along with what has so far been a unanimous consensus that we shouldn't be trying to keep them from being constructable where vicinity access already exists. @raxo2222 would you look into what tags we'd want to use to give say a +10% bonus to build speed to horse mounted and horse assisted combat classes for us? Not asking you to implement them yet, just to be ready to if we can all agree this would be a cool way to make the building worth it to build wherever you really want to train your horse based units.

I would place Horse at Capital and few other places, so I would get combined vicinity buildings - that is building which needs two different vicinity resources (or place Herd in city to provide vicinity).

As for resources speeding unit training tags they already exist for general resource presence.
For example this for some unit:

<BonusProductionModifiers>
                <BonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_DONKEY</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </BonusProductionModifier>
                <BonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_CAMEL</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </BonusProductionModifier>
                <BonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_COW</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </BonusProductionModifier>
                <BonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_HORSE</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </BonusProductionModifier>
            </BonusProductionModifiers>

Vicinity one could be something similar:

<VicinityBonusProductionModifiers>
                <VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_DONKEY</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                <VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_CAMEL</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                <VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_COW</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                <VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
                    <BonusType>BONUS_HORSE</BonusType>
                    <iProductonModifier>5</iProductonModifier>
                </VicinityBonusProductionModifier>
            </VicinityBonusProductionModifiers>

 

[KaTiON_PT]

From your perspective as a player, if your Tamed Animals can place themselves as bonuses on plots, what's your policy? Take up all the plots you can? (Especially knowing that you're taking away from other placement opportunities to come like from Great Farmers and maybe much much more on its way?) How would you define your player policy on this? Do you try to put, say, Horses, in every city you can, just one everywhere? Do you pick a couple of cities and give them horses? How many? Is it a percentage of the amount of cities you have in the empire or a fixed number such as say 3? Do you try to give them to your core cities or to your developing cities to help them grow faster? I need to understand how YOU would think the AI should behave on this matter.

I only use tamed animals on cities and I always save them in order to build all possible buildings in newly founded cities. I then culture bomb said cities with what animals are left over.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There's already a lot of things that need to be considered to make Corps not so astoundingly out of balance as they are now. Corps were designed on an assumption that all resources in the game would roughly be introduced into the game at a similar frequency to one another and of course we destroy that assumption. But the more we can keep from doing so the better. A lot has to be rethought for corps... in the meantime not making them worse off than they are is probably a good thing.

Can we have a Game Set up Option to Turn Corps Completely Off. Is it possible?

 

[JosEPh_II]

I only use tamed animals on cities and I always save them in order to build all possible buildings in newly founded cities. I then culture bomb said cities with what animals are left over.

A somewhat similar usage. I send pairs of snakes to every city earliest I can so that all my units can have the Poison Promotion. I send tamed Horse, when I can subdue or actually have a horse resource, to every city. Same for Camel, Donkey, Llama, Cow, Sheep, Pig, etc., that gives a herd 1st then the farm building and then any extra building associated with that animal. Elephant has been excluded from being Tamed for ages and so is a source of Mounted units that is a true "wild card" draw on any map. But some maps generate more elephant resources than Horse or llama. Camel seems to be pretty good if the map has sufficient desert areas. If it does not then it too can be rare. I have used C2C_World 80% of the time over the past 2 years as my Map. And sometimes Horse are rare items.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I would place Horse at Capital and few other places, so I would get combined vicinity buildings - that is building which needs two different vicinity resources (or place Herd in city to provide vicinity).

How much effort would you put into ensuring that such a combined vicinity building is possible? I wonder how I would get the AI to identify that a Horse somewhere would combine with something else there to provide a combined vicinity building you couldn't get otherwise... theoretically that could be a lethally powerful thing that the AI could evaluate for and execute that the player would be very hard pressed to be able to do with as much skill. I think I'll have to figure out how to determine and cache such a determination then look for identified possibilities to exploit along these lines. Good thinking, this is a big part of why I asked... this could be really awesome for the AI if done efficiently enough that it doesn't create a noticeable slowdown in turn times to figure this out. Perhaps aside from ensuring themselves a vicinity access in one of their major cities, this should be the main reason for them to place a bonus. That would then be enough perhaps.

As for resources speeding unit training tags they already exist for general resource presence.
For example this for some unit:

Hmm. Placing the tags on the units? Seems laborious. And a hidden benefit not mentioned directly on the building. It gets done this way, yes, and I had not considered that approach.

Another way would be to put the tag on the building itself, something that would make it much more visible when considering constructing the building, and certainly more visible to the AI as well as to players.

Now that it's morning I have a little clear headedness enough to look into the formatting on this. Here's how I'd go about it:

<UnitCombatProdModifiers>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_MAMMAL_EQUINE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNT_HORSE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_ASSISTED_HORSE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
</UnitCombatProdModifiers>

Note that we strangely don't yet HAVE UNITCOMBAT_ASSISTED_HORSE, which I find exceedingly strange. But in case we want to be able to add that to any units I'd just make the Unitcombat in the process of this. It strikes me as odd we don't have Horse Assisted Workers... huh.

Anyhow, this would make the building give the city it's in a +10% production modifier to training any Equine (for Tamed Horse units), Horse Mounted, or Horse Assisted units. Why should it have this? Because it reflects that this is where you keep the majority of your horses available in your empire so the equipping process of horses to any given training effort is much easier in this city than it is anywhere else (usually).

Anyone else find this to be a logical purpose for these buildings beyond the normal vicinity access and a little production/gold? As for the production mod, I get it as being a reflection of the abundance of animal labor help in this city - which imo should be a +2-5% production MODIFIER (depending on the real industrial value of the labor of that particular animal) so that it scales with the size of the city (and thus also the assumed size of the breeding herd stock) rather than an unscaling +1 or +2 production base to the city. The gold as a base is due to the added taxation of enhanced economic trading of this animal and a flat base does make sense for that purpose. Perhaps it should also give an extra 1 or 2 base commerce due to how much that added trade stimulates economy for all here.

Do all that and you finally start having an honest national wonder you'd want to construct to declare the city it's built in as the city you are really planning to make the one you plug out units of this type from, even where you'll want to start spreading more of that bonus around your empire from with Tamed animals of that type.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Anyhow, this would make the building give the city it's in a +10% production modifier to training any Equine (for Tamed Horse units), Horse Mounted, or Horse Assisted units. Why should it have this? Because it reflects that this is where you keep the majority of your horses available in your empire so the equipping process of horses to any given training effort is much easier in this city than it is anywhere else (usually).

Why doe a resource like horse have to be in a specific city. I know many like to specialize their cities. But there many players that do not like to do this. But like to have general purpose cities that shift their usage during the course of the game. Is this being considered or ignored here? Not sure?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can we have a Game Set up Option to Turn Corps Completely Off. Is it possible?

Wouldn't be the first time I made an option I'd abhor myself for the sake of another team member. I know you aren't alone that you dislike corps. I could look into it when I look at reviewing how to fix them as well. IMO, Corps are one of the coolest aspects of the game introduced at BtS. It's a shame we've borked them and as a result borked the entire game balance in the modern plus eras. Lots of ways to fix them and make them fun again though.

A somewhat similar usage. I send pairs of snakes to every city earliest I can so that all my units can have the Poison Promotion. I send tamed Horse, when I can subdue or actually have a horse resource, to every city. Same for Camel, Donkey, Llama, Cow, Sheep, Pig, etc., that gives a herd 1st then the farm building and then any extra building associated with that animal. Elephant has been excluded from being Tamed for ages and so is a source of Mounted units that is a true "wild card" draw on any map. But some maps generate more elephant resources than Horse or llama. Camel seems to be pretty good if the map has sufficient desert areas. If it does not then it too can be rare. I have used C2C_World 80% of the time over the past 2 years as my Map. And sometimes Horse are rare items.

So you're saying you would not use them to place them on the map when you can? I'm not needing to figure out how the AI would use them to spread around to other cities - to me that's a given that they should be used like that and that would be the first thing they'd be trained to do, just like spreading missionaries. But once that's complete, or perhaps even for one before that, how many should the AI train to place them around the map? Should it have to do with how many plots are owned that are within city radii somewhere that CAN get a bonus? Should it just be... place one somewhere? If so where? And on what basis should it choose where?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Why doe a resource like horse have to be in a specific city. I know many like to specialize their cities. But there many players that do not like to do this. But like to have general purpose cities that shift their usage during the course of the game. Is this being considered or ignored here? Not sure?

This is NOT trying to say this should be the ONLY place you'd be able to train horse units. But as a national wonder that is THE means of making sure if you only have the bonus via a trade that you have a place you CAN train horse units from at least to start, you'd think it should by nature make the city its in get some overall bonuses to training such units from that location.

 

[raxo2222]

Can we have a Game Set up Option to Turn Corps Completely Off. Is it possible?

Technically it should be possible.
This would be done by disabling placement of buildings that start with
<Building>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_CORPORATION_(Corporation)</BuildingType>
<bBuilding>1</bBuilding>
</Building>
Following Great People can place corporations: Artist, Scientist, Merchant, Engineer, General, Admiral.

How much effort would you put into ensuring that such a combined vicinity building is possible? I wonder how I would get the AI to identify that a Horse somewhere would combine with something else there to provide a combined vicinity building you couldn't get otherwise... theoretically that could be a lethally powerful thing that the AI could evaluate for and execute that the player would be very hard pressed to be able to do with as much skill. I think I'll have to figure out how to determine and cache such a determination then look for identified possibilities to exploit along these lines. Good thinking, this is a big part of why I asked... this could be really awesome for the AI if done efficiently enough that it doesn't create a noticeable slowdown in turn times to figure this out. Perhaps aside from ensuring themselves a vicinity access in one of their major cities, this should be the main reason for them to place a bonus. That would then be enough perhaps.


Hmm. Placing the tags on the units? Seems laborious. And a hidden benefit not mentioned directly on the building. It gets done this way, yes, and I had not considered that approach.

Another way would be to put the tag on the building itself, something that would make it much more visible when considering constructing the building, and certainly more visible to the AI as well as to players.

Now that it's morning I have a little clear headedness enough to look into the formatting on this. Here's how I'd go about it:

<UnitCombatProdModifiers>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_MAMMAL_EQUINE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_MOUNT_HORSE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
    <UnitCombatProdModifier>
        <UnitCombatProd>UNITCOMBAT_ASSISTED_HORSE</UnitCombatProd>
        <iUnitCombatProdModifier>10</iUnitCombatProdModifier>
    </UnitCombatProdModifier>
</UnitCombatProdModifiers>

Note that we strangely don't yet HAVE UNITCOMBAT_ASSISTED_HORSE, which I find exceedingly strange. But in case we want to be able to add that to any units I'd just make the Unitcombat in the process of this. It strikes me as odd we don't have Horse Assisted Workers... huh.

Anyhow, this would make the building give the city it's in a +10% production modifier to training any Equine (for Tamed Horse units), Horse Mounted, or Horse Assisted units. Why should it have this? Because it reflects that this is where you keep the majority of your horses available in your empire so the equipping process of horses to any given training effort is much easier in this city than it is anywhere else (usually).

Anyone else find this to be a logical purpose for these buildings beyond the normal vicinity access and a little production/gold? As for the production mod, I get it as being a reflection of the abundance of animal labor help in this city - which imo should be a +2-5% production MODIFIER (depending on the real industrial value of the labor of that particular animal) so that it scales with the size of the city (and thus also the assumed size of the breeding herd stock) rather than an unscaling +1 or +2 production base to the city. The gold as a base is due to the added taxation of enhanced economic trading of this animal and a flat base does make sense for that purpose. Perhaps it should also give an extra 1 or 2 base commerce due to how much that added trade stimulates economy for all here.

Do all that and you finally start having an honest national wonder you'd want to construct to declare the city it's built in as the city you are really planning to make the one you plug out units of this type from, even where you'll want to start spreading more of that bonus around your empire from with Tamed animals of that type.

Quick glance on pedia will let me see buildings, that need Horse by looking on Horse resource page.
It separately lists "Needs Locally"
In this list I can see all things, that require Horse in vicinity.

We have Mule Workers, and they need Horse and Donkey.
I guess someone forgot to add ASSISTED_HORSE unitcombat to Mule Worker or something.

Also I see that those tags are more general.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Technically it should be possible.
This would be done by disabling placement of buildings that start with
<Building>
<BuildingType>BUILDING_CORPORATION_(Corporation)</BuildingType>
<bBuilding>1</bBuilding>
</Building>
Following Great People can place corporations: Artist, Scientist, Merchant, Engineer, General, Admiral.

Sure, from an XML perspective. Though I'd suggest if we were going to approach it from an XML adjusting perspective, just using NotOnGameOption on the Corp Headquarters alone would do it, though you'd want to also apply it to all the buildings that are unlocked by having access to the corp, all the executive units, and somehow turn off the corporation UI panel entirely.

We have Mule Workers, and they need Horse and Donkey.
I guess someone forgot to add ASSISTED_HORSE unitcombat to Mule Worker or something.

I wouldn't have forgotten so much as just never identified it as a need. I suppose you're right about the Mule workers being that mules are a hybrid, though I'd almost prefer to make a new mule resource and make the place where you interbreed them a more dedicated portion of the game dynamic but for now, sure it makes sense to just require Horses for whatever the MOUNT and ASSISTED MULE unitcombats are unlocked by (as they currently are).

There's not really a current place to apply ASSISTED_HORSE tbh but I'm shocked... shouldn't there be a common Horse Worker unit? Horses help workers far more than Dogs ever did (which IMO should be an arctic specialist unit rather than the more generic animal assisted unit, which probably SHOULD be horse based.)

 

[JosEPh_II]

This is NOT trying to say this should be the ONLY place you'd be able to train horse units. But as a national wonder that is THE means of making sure if you only have the bonus via a trade that you have a place you CAN train horse units from at least to start, you'd think it should by nature make the city its in get some overall bonuses to training such units from that location.

Okay understood now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There's not really a current place to apply ASSISTED_HORSE tbh but I'm shocked... shouldn't there be a common Horse Worker unit? Horses help workers far more than Dogs ever did (which IMO should be an arctic specialist unit rather than the more generic animal assisted unit, which probably SHOULD be horse based.)

Applaud, Yeah, and other such positive responses!

 

[Yudishtira]

There's not really a current place to apply ASSISTED_HORSE tbh but I'm shocked... shouldn't there be a common Horse Worker unit? Horses help workers far more than Dogs ever did (which IMO should be an arctic specialist unit rather than the more generic animal assisted unit, which probably SHOULD be horse based.)

Totally agree about the Horse Worker, but dogs help workers in ways other than pulling sleds, the main one being herding, but also pest-catching (and possibly others). Or are you saying our Workers as 'constructors' don't do these other things? I've always thought of assisted workers as representing labourers in general, even though their in-game tasks are all construction-related.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Totally agree about the Horse Worker, but dogs help workers in ways other than pulling sleds, the main one being herding, but also pest-catching (and possibly others). Or are you saying our Workers as 'constructors' don't do these other things? I've always thought of assisted workers as representing labourers in general, even though their in-game tasks are all construction-related.

I suppose I think of them as construction laborers as that is generally how the game applies them to a benefit for you. Also cleanup laborers.

 

[raxo2222]

There are following land animal map resources:
Beavers, Bison, Camel, Cow, Deer, Donkey, Elephants, Guinea Pigs, Horse, Kangaroo, Llama, Mammoth, Parrots, Pig, Poultry, Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Sheep, Walrus.

Animals without Animal Farm, Herd, Central Breeder, Animal Trainer and Tamed Animal chain are:
Beavers, Deer, Guinea Pigs, Kangaroo, Parrots, Poultry, Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Sheep, Walrus
Beavers have Fur Farm.
Deer (Kangaroo/Poultry/Sheep) have Herd - Deer (Kangaroo/Poultry/Sheep).

Animals with any of those above (ATC = Animal Tamer Complex, Stable has two upgrades at later stages):
Bison: Tamed Bison <- ATC + Herd - Bison + Enclosure - Exotic Herbivorous + Stable
Cow: Tamed Cattle <- ATC + Cow Farm + Enclosure - Exotic Herbivorous (Herd - Cow exists outside chain)
Donkey: Tamed Donkey <- ATC + Donkey Farm + Stable (Herd - Donkey and Mule Trainer exists outside chain)
Llama: Tamed Llama <- ATC + Llama Farm + Stable (Herd - Llama and Llama Trainer exists outside chain. Alpaca Farm needs Llama Farm or Herd - Llama)
Mammoth: Tamed Mammoth <- ATC + Myth Effect Paleolithic Mammoth (Means can't build where myth itself where was placed) + Stable (Herd - Mammoth exists outside chain)
Pig: Tamed Wild Boar <- ATC + Pig Farm + Enclosure - Exotic Herbivorous (Herd - Pig exists outside chain)

Finished chains:
Camel: Tamed Camel <- ATC + Camel Trainer + Stable; Camel Trainer <- Camel Farm OR Central Breeder - Camel OR Herd - Camel.
Elephants: Tamed Elephant <- ATC + Elephant Trainer + Stable; Elephant Trainer <- Elephant Farm OR Central Breeder - Elephant OR Herd - Elephant.
Horse: Tamed Horse <- ATC + Horse Trainer + Stable; Horse Trainer <- Horse Farm OR Central Breeder - Horse OR Herd - Horse.

Guinea Pigs, Rabbits, Poultry and Sheep definitely should have Tamed Animals.
Donkey/Horse Breeding Pairs have slightly different chains.

---------------------------------
Central Breeders: Horse/Camel/Elephant

Herds (unbuildable): Bison, Camel, Cow, Deer, Donkey, Elephant, Horse, Kangaroo, Llama, Mammoth, Pig, Poultry, Sheep.
No herd: Beavers, Guinea Pigs, Parrots, Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Walrus.

Farms (buildable): Llama/Alpaca (Llama), Fur (Beavers), Camel, Cow/Oxen (Cow)/Yak (Cow), Donkey, Duck/Goose/Turkey (Poultry+Apple/Olives/Wheat), Elephant, Sheep/Goat (Sheep), Horse, Pig, Reindeer (Deer - Cold climate).
No farm: Bison, Guinea Pigs, Kangaroo, Mammoth, Parrots, Poultry (No "standalone" farm), Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Walrus.

Animal Trainer: Buffalo (Cow - Oxen Farm or Buffalo Herd), Camel, Elephant, Horse, Llama, Mule (Donkey)
No (regular) trainer: Beavers, Bison (Buffalo Trainer could be used here), Deer, Guinea Pigs, Kangaroo, Mammoth, Parrots, Pig, Poultry, Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Sheep, Walrus.

Tamed Animal: Bison, Camel, Cattle (Cow), Donkey, Elephant, Horse, Llama, Mammoth, Wild Boar (Pig).
No tamed animal: Beavers, Deer, Guinea Pigs, Kangaroo, Parrots, Poultry, Rabbit, Sea Lion&Seal, Sheep, Walrus.

Sea Lion&Seal, Walrus and Mammoth could have Central Breeder in alt timelines.
Guinea Pigs, Rabbits, Parrots, Poultry and Sheep seemed to be completely forgotten.
As for Beavers, Bison, Deer and Kangaroo I'm not sure if Central Breeder could be regular or part of Alt Timeline (Megafauna Domestication).

Animal Trainer or something like that could be requirement for Tamed Animal.
Animal Trainer could require Farm or Herd or Central Breeder or few more animal related buildings - essentially be OR requirement merger.

I changed animal farm and trainer naming convention, so now they are much easier find in pedia.