another hof spacerace start
- Thread starter Snaaty
- Start date
?OK, we got ignored 
Another question:
Does Civilopedia adjusts itself to map size?
I see this:
Means 4 Sushi resources for 3
, 2 Mining resources for 3
Need some tech support with BUFFY.
Civ crashed when loading save without any error message (no error message at all, and it was always give some upon crash before that). Since then I can not load BUFFY mod. I can load Civ without mods and I can load some other mods inside game. When I try to load BUFFY within game - game restarts then I see Civ4BeyondSword.exe process in task manager starts and and disappears after few seconds.
More interesting I have dual boot on my box. Both OS are XP. They are pretty same (some difference between video drivers versions, both work fine). On second OS I can load BUFFY without any problem. I run Civ on both operating systems from same Steam install same folder (different my games folders though). So it seem to be OS issue, something screwed up.
The actual question: what are specific dll's or .Net version or may be run time libraries are required specifically for BUFFY (but not for vanilla BTS)?
Delete and reinstall BUFFY did not help btw.
Thank you in advance!
Another question:
Does Civilopedia adjusts itself to map size?
I see this:
Spoiler :
Means 4 Sushi resources for 3
, 2 Mining resources for 3Need some tech support with BUFFY.
Civ crashed when loading save without any error message (no error message at all, and it was always give some upon crash before that). Since then I can not load BUFFY mod. I can load Civ without mods and I can load some other mods inside game. When I try to load BUFFY within game - game restarts then I see Civ4BeyondSword.exe process in task manager starts and and disappears after few seconds.
More interesting I have dual boot on my box. Both OS are XP. They are pretty same (some difference between video drivers versions, both work fine). On second OS I can load BUFFY without any problem. I run Civ on both operating systems from same Steam install same folder (different my games folders though). So it seem to be OS issue, something screwed up.
The actual question: what are specific dll's or .Net version or may be run time libraries are required specifically for BUFFY (but not for vanilla BTS)?
Delete and reinstall BUFFY did not help btw.
Thank you in advance!
@ gkey:
i cant help you with your installation problems, but i have figured out the food and hammer thing for corps on our map (civpedia got it right btw, so i simply confirm what you already wrote):
sushi: .75 food per ressource = 3 food for 4 ressources
mining: 3 hammer per 2 ressources = what it says actually, for every 2 mining thingies you get 3 hammers or 1.5 hammers for 1 ressource ... ...which is really huge btw, because with coal we have easily 15-20 mining ressources, which translates into 20-30 hammers
i cant help you with your installation problems, but i have figured out the food and hammer thing for corps on our map (civpedia got it right btw, so i simply confirm what you already wrote):
sushi: .75 food per ressource = 3 food for 4 ressources
mining: 3 hammer per 2 ressources = what it says actually, for every 2 mining thingies you get 3 hammers or 1.5 hammers for 1 ressource ... ...which is really huge btw, because with coal we have easily 15-20 mining ressources, which translates into 20-30 hammers
.
) will never reach emancipation nor will have enough spoints to be of any danger later... ...or is my thinking here wrong (again)???How you intend to fund your research now? Also consider maintenance costs from some 10+ seafood islands. It's really a bummer in my game and that before corps. Also SoL... Takes ages really. When did you started it? I don't think I will bother with it before Mining.
We are going different routes here. You farmed everything, settled many mainland cities (for production?) and going Mining, while I workshopped a bit more, focused on settling islands and going Sushi. Would be interesting to compare. Fastest execs production is going to be a key here.
And what about you, Doshin?
We are going different routes here. You farmed everything, settled many mainland cities (for production?) and going Mining, while I workshopped a bit more, focused on settling islands and going Sushi. Would be interesting to compare. Fastest execs production is going to be a key here.
And what about you, Doshin?
@ gkey:
i was just having a look at your save when seeing your post, so some quick answers:
1. funding research :
well, actually quite easy really, same way as before, the taj money is enough untill SoL is finished, then i cash in another 600-800 gold, meanwhile i will put ov into NE, after that i will have stone connected and can keep doing it with the stone wonders. with mining it should be really easy, 30 base hammers from mining alone, another 20 from the cities bfc, maybe another 10 thanks to levees... ...we are talking about 180 gold each turn doing it for 1 wonder only (and you can do it for various at the time...). i guess i will be able to do so for quite some time more, because each wonder allows 3-5 turns of 100% research
2. SoL:
around 200 AD i think. i did put max. OV into it and chopped quite some forests into it (6-8 or so). didnt take longer then 15 turns to get it build (2/3 of my SoL are made of wood and only painted i guess)
3. Farming and mainland cities:
with mining i figgured i would need food more then prod. and with SoL and merk, each mainland city immediately contributed to the empire + i wanted some basic infra up before mining (forge+gran+courth) to reduce costs after spreading.
4. Production:
yes, i tried to max. out production, because each turn the prod. of 1-2 cities was lost to generate wonder-OV. besides, i invested a lot in wonders and such. i´m building right now versailles also, have the banks up for wallstreet and most cities have already temple and monastry...
5. island upkeep:
i will have finished versailles in a bit in washington, so upkeep shouldnt be that bad. besides, a courthouse with mining is up in 4 turns, so it should be ok (at least i hope so)
...
i think it´s great you are going sushi. i´m really curious how it will compare. i will do a short writeup later tonight after studying your save and game a bit more to compare up to 500 AD (if i have the time that is)
i was just having a look at your save when seeing your post, so some quick answers:
1. funding research :
well, actually quite easy really, same way as before, the taj money is enough untill SoL is finished, then i cash in another 600-800 gold, meanwhile i will put ov into NE, after that i will have stone connected and can keep doing it with the stone wonders. with mining it should be really easy, 30 base hammers from mining alone, another 20 from the cities bfc, maybe another 10 thanks to levees... ...we are talking about 180 gold each turn doing it for 1 wonder only (and you can do it for various at the time...). i guess i will be able to do so for quite some time more, because each wonder allows 3-5 turns of 100% research
2. SoL:
around 200 AD i think. i did put max. OV into it and chopped quite some forests into it (6-8 or so). didnt take longer then 15 turns to get it build (2/3 of my SoL are made of wood and only painted i guess
)3. Farming and mainland cities:
with mining i figgured i would need food more then prod. and with SoL and merk, each mainland city immediately contributed to the empire + i wanted some basic infra up before mining (forge+gran+courth) to reduce costs after spreading.
4. Production:
yes, i tried to max. out production, because each turn the prod. of 1-2 cities was lost to generate wonder-OV. besides, i invested a lot in wonders and such. i´m building right now versailles also, have the banks up for wallstreet and most cities have already temple and monastry...
5. island upkeep:
i will have finished versailles in a bit in washington, so upkeep shouldnt be that bad. besides, a courthouse with mining is up in 4 turns, so it should be ok (at least i hope so)
...
i think it´s great you are going sushi. i´m really curious how it will compare. i will do a short writeup later tonight after studying your save and game a bit more to compare up to 500 AD (if i have the time that is)
since doshin hasnt posted a 500 AD save, there are only 2 games left to compare, gkeys and mine, so i gonna go a bit more into detail:
i think the game so far can be devided into 3 phases (the first 2 phases i will keep short, since they are already included in previous comparisions):
Phase 1:
early buidup- settling your cities, workerstealing and preparing for the war:
different settling pattern but quite similar in cities and setup. gkey managed to steal 10 workers while i got 7
Phase 2:
warring up to 1 AD - gkey was using ha´s and i was going elepults. gkey had an advantage on cities and research up to 500 AD, but around 1 AD it leveled out, i guess because of the need to produce more support units like cats and such in gkeys game (i had all units ready quite fast). still, gkeys research around 1 AD was better then mine by almost 20%. still, both games developed almost the same up to 1 AD (i guess i did some more techtrades due to the fact i helped the ai to tech via techgifts)
Phase 3:
empire buildup, up to 500 AD - here the most significant differences started to show:
gkey:
if i got it right, key strategy was to get really fast to educations for unis and oxford in capital, directly after music was researched, which means maxing out research multipliers. then, a Mom beefed GA with the music great artist was used to produce lots of GM´s for trading missions to maintain research at 100%. 7 gps were produced in total, with 3 still hanging around -> 4 gm´s have been used for trading missions, righ gkey?
civics are rep+merk, but since edu was targeted rep comes via the mids and banking was reached only around 200 AD (@ gkey: you really should whip a bank in delhi ASAP btw). building the apo in delhi was a bit of an unlucky choice imho, because the shrine and soon corps city is really lacking some infra now.
since dr came late also, the combo spiral+sankore+apo got built later and most cities are still missing temples and monastries (@ gkey: if you are targetting sushi, better stop building monastries, because they need to be up for at least 10 turns before outdated to make profit).
on the other hand, lots of research buildings are up, but some courthouses are still missing. overall, production seems to be a key point here, maybe also due to running lots of specialists.
lots of watermills and workshops have been built or are beeing built right now, so the empire is directed towards hammers now i guess to solve this issue.
astro is researched and a small fleet is busy settling the islands, so far 4 island cities are settled or conquered.
the empire has 26 cities in total.
snaaty:
i used a totally different approach, from the point music was reached (up to there, research was running more or less in parallel in both games). i basically ignored research multipliers and didnt bother to build even libraries. planning on the apo-sankore-spiral combo, i started to build monastries, then temples in all cities right after grans and forges.
the apo i got quite early, around 200 bc if i remember right, so these buildings helped in production right away. then i targeted paper and managed to trade for dr (else i would have researched it myself around 1 AD) around 1 AD and chop-built the spiral and sankore ASAP.
in parallel i researched towards constitution, and the turn i managed to trade for guilds i switched to banking (was 1 turn before const. finished if i remember right).
no need for the mids in my game and via a MoM GA i switched into rep-merk (must have been around the same time gkey switched also, so not much difference here)
i did spread my shrine reli agressively and whipped all money multipliers in my shrine city delhi asap. goal was to get as many gold (not income from commerce, im referring to gold) as i could from wonders/buildings/shrine. you could say that my game up to 500AD was dedicated fully to increase gold. research and research buildings got built only after all gold generating (or saving) buildings were finished. idea behind this was to be able to keep the science slider as high as possible without loosing money. break even point at 500AD is already around 70% science.
my way of generating gold directly was fail gold from wonders. i started basically all wonders i finished in various cities with max. ov (100hammers+) and once i finished on of them, i cashed in. gpp count is only at 300 so far.
i also went for demo directly after const. to start on the SoL asap (helped with lots of chopping). i didnt selfresearch edu, i traded for it around 200-300 AD. libs+unis+oxford only got finished recently.
the vp is already up and versailles will be soon.
workers are building farms mainly to increas food and therefore city growth. i have 3 islands settled/conquered
...
both games in numbers (first number is gkey, second myself):
cities total: 26/28
island cities: 4/3
research 100%: 1528/1545
gold research 100%: -348/-250
research 0%: 260/236
gold research 0%: 391/600
prod: 499/538
food: 463/432
pop: 12M/10M
...
SUMMARY:
research, cities, prod, food is basically the same in both games (which is quite surprising after 135 turns and different approaches).
what makes a bit of a difference though is the money situation. while gkey can only research 1 turn after saving 1 turn, i can research 2 turns after saving 1 turn, or put differently, i need to generate a lot less money to maintain research at 100% (@ gkey: now i understand better you comment on upkeep for the islands).
i have less pop and food, although i have way more farms. reason is simply, i whipped more and therefore have a bit more infra up. what is better will show in the next sets.
although having less pop and less hammer improvements, i´m slightly ahead in prod. this is surprising, but i guess it´s because of the lots of monastries and temples i´m having (had whipped)
i think the game so far can be devided into 3 phases (the first 2 phases i will keep short, since they are already included in previous comparisions):
Phase 1:
early buidup- settling your cities, workerstealing and preparing for the war:
different settling pattern but quite similar in cities and setup. gkey managed to steal 10 workers while i got 7
Phase 2:
warring up to 1 AD - gkey was using ha´s and i was going elepults. gkey had an advantage on cities and research up to 500 AD, but around 1 AD it leveled out, i guess because of the need to produce more support units like cats and such in gkeys game (i had all units ready quite fast). still, gkeys research around 1 AD was better then mine by almost 20%. still, both games developed almost the same up to 1 AD (i guess i did some more techtrades due to the fact i helped the ai to tech via techgifts)
Phase 3:
empire buildup, up to 500 AD - here the most significant differences started to show:
gkey:
if i got it right, key strategy was to get really fast to educations for unis and oxford in capital, directly after music was researched, which means maxing out research multipliers. then, a Mom beefed GA with the music great artist was used to produce lots of GM´s for trading missions to maintain research at 100%. 7 gps were produced in total, with 3 still hanging around -> 4 gm´s have been used for trading missions, righ gkey?
civics are rep+merk, but since edu was targeted rep comes via the mids and banking was reached only around 200 AD (@ gkey: you really should whip a bank in delhi ASAP btw). building the apo in delhi was a bit of an unlucky choice imho, because the shrine and soon corps city is really lacking some infra now.
since dr came late also, the combo spiral+sankore+apo got built later and most cities are still missing temples and monastries (@ gkey: if you are targetting sushi, better stop building monastries, because they need to be up for at least 10 turns before outdated to make profit).
on the other hand, lots of research buildings are up, but some courthouses are still missing. overall, production seems to be a key point here, maybe also due to running lots of specialists.
lots of watermills and workshops have been built or are beeing built right now, so the empire is directed towards hammers now i guess to solve this issue.
astro is researched and a small fleet is busy settling the islands, so far 4 island cities are settled or conquered.
the empire has 26 cities in total.
snaaty:
i used a totally different approach, from the point music was reached (up to there, research was running more or less in parallel in both games). i basically ignored research multipliers and didnt bother to build even libraries. planning on the apo-sankore-spiral combo, i started to build monastries, then temples in all cities right after grans and forges.
the apo i got quite early, around 200 bc if i remember right, so these buildings helped in production right away. then i targeted paper and managed to trade for dr (else i would have researched it myself around 1 AD) around 1 AD and chop-built the spiral and sankore ASAP.
in parallel i researched towards constitution, and the turn i managed to trade for guilds i switched to banking (was 1 turn before const. finished if i remember right).
no need for the mids in my game and via a MoM GA i switched into rep-merk (must have been around the same time gkey switched also, so not much difference here)
i did spread my shrine reli agressively and whipped all money multipliers in my shrine city delhi asap. goal was to get as many gold (not income from commerce, im referring to gold) as i could from wonders/buildings/shrine. you could say that my game up to 500AD was dedicated fully to increase gold. research and research buildings got built only after all gold generating (or saving) buildings were finished. idea behind this was to be able to keep the science slider as high as possible without loosing money. break even point at 500AD is already around 70% science.
my way of generating gold directly was fail gold from wonders. i started basically all wonders i finished in various cities with max. ov (100hammers+) and once i finished on of them, i cashed in. gpp count is only at 300 so far.
i also went for demo directly after const. to start on the SoL asap (helped with lots of chopping). i didnt selfresearch edu, i traded for it around 200-300 AD. libs+unis+oxford only got finished recently.
the vp is already up and versailles will be soon.
workers are building farms mainly to increas food and therefore city growth. i have 3 islands settled/conquered
...
both games in numbers (first number is gkey, second myself):
cities total: 26/28
island cities: 4/3
research 100%: 1528/1545
gold research 100%: -348/-250
research 0%: 260/236
gold research 0%: 391/600
prod: 499/538
food: 463/432
pop: 12M/10M
...
SUMMARY:
research, cities, prod, food is basically the same in both games (which is quite surprising after 135 turns and different approaches).
what makes a bit of a difference though is the money situation. while gkey can only research 1 turn after saving 1 turn, i can research 2 turns after saving 1 turn, or put differently, i need to generate a lot less money to maintain research at 100% (@ gkey: now i understand better you comment on upkeep for the islands).
i have less pop and food, although i have way more farms. reason is simply, i whipped more and therefore have a bit more infra up. what is better will show in the next sets.
although having less pop and less hammer improvements, i´m slightly ahead in prod. this is surprising, but i guess it´s because of the lots of monastries and temples i´m having (had whipped)
Oh, its hugely interesting to read such analyses. Please go on. 
Yep, wasting forests on AP in Delhi was a poor move. I was actually surprised to see how many forests are still not chopped in your game. 4 GMs been cashed in for 6K gold. On the other hand you managed to trade for Education, Guilds and DR which even out our research. I've counted about the same amount of infra in our games. That may be because I was put my OF into buildings, not fail gold. This actually gives your game more potential, since you haven't used your GPP that much yet. My ability of used fail gold is limited now since I got not too many wonders left.
I am slightly favor settling islands rather then mainland cities. The reasoning:
The research is going to come from Sushi powered specs. Small island cities are as good as 20 land tiles cities for this (almost)
We need cities with lot's of land tiles for production only. but we don't need too many of them, since
It's not military game, we need some 6-8 production cities for burst production of space parts during last 10-15 turns, but that's it
and
once you start settle islands maintenance will increase dramatically and each city, that does not have particular reason for been settled will cost fortune through out whole empire.
Edit: Ups crosspost.
Yep, wasting forests on AP in Delhi was a poor move. I was actually surprised to see how many forests are still not chopped in your game. 4 GMs been cashed in for 6K gold. On the other hand you managed to trade for Education, Guilds and DR which even out our research. I've counted about the same amount of infra in our games. That may be because I was put my OF into buildings, not fail gold. This actually gives your game more potential, since you haven't used your GPP that much yet. My ability of used fail gold is limited now since I got not too many wonders left.
I am slightly favor settling islands rather then mainland cities. The reasoning:
The research is going to come from Sushi powered specs. Small island cities are as good as 20 land tiles cities for this (almost)
We need cities with lot's of land tiles for production only. but we don't need too many of them, since
It's not military game, we need some 6-8 production cities for burst production of space parts during last 10-15 turns, but that's it
and
once you start settle islands maintenance will increase dramatically and each city, that does not have particular reason for been settled will cost fortune through out whole empire.
Edit: Ups crosspost.
!
Ok. Here's my my 500 AD save:
I was quite pleased with it at the time... but now
You guys are outpacing me some way. Like I said, I learned a lot from this game and made a good number of mistakes. I guess I did a few things differently:
1. I whipped much more aggressively than GKey (I can't compare your save directly, snaaty). My feeling was that this was going to be a long game, and that the sooner Markets/Courthouses/Libraries were set up, the better.
2. I really didn't prioritize the AP/Sankore/SM combo. So I lost out on the AP hammers there, and when it did get built, I didn't have the AP religion well spread in advance. Incidentally, I never owned the Spiral Minaret.
3. I didn't think I was lagging in the Middle Age teching (after all, I was able to Lib. Medicine). With retrospect, I should have raised capital more proactively.
4. I planned to launch a large series of Golden Ages, so I was much more reluctant than GKey to breed Great Merchants. I wonder whether it is better to run several Great Merchant missions to sustain Middle Age teching, or to hold one last 12-turn Golden Age burning 5 Great People.
---
Looking ahead, it's definitely realistic to start on the ship at 1400 AD. A question to you both: do you intend to go Refrigeration ---> Superconductors, or ignore Refrigeration completely?
Spoiler :
I was quite pleased with it at the time... but now
You guys are outpacing me some way. Like I said, I learned a lot from this game and made a good number of mistakes. I guess I did a few things differently:1. I whipped much more aggressively than GKey (I can't compare your save directly, snaaty). My feeling was that this was going to be a long game, and that the sooner Markets/Courthouses/Libraries were set up, the better.
2. I really didn't prioritize the AP/Sankore/SM combo. So I lost out on the AP hammers there, and when it did get built, I didn't have the AP religion well spread in advance. Incidentally, I never owned the Spiral Minaret.
3. I didn't think I was lagging in the Middle Age teching (after all, I was able to Lib. Medicine
). With retrospect, I should have raised capital more proactively.4. I planned to launch a large series of Golden Ages, so I was much more reluctant than GKey to breed Great Merchants. I wonder whether it is better to run several Great Merchant missions to sustain Middle Age teching, or to hold one last 12-turn Golden Age burning 5 Great People.
---
Looking ahead, it's definitely realistic to start on the ship at 1400 AD. A question to you both: do you intend to go Refrigeration ---> Superconductors, or ignore Refrigeration completely?
I keep analyzing the reason of my production fail.
You guys realize I did not revolt into OR since I did not convert into Buddhism (even though I had fricking shrine!).
This backfired soooooo badly in terms of hammers and not only hammers. Not having OR stagnated spreading religion, I haven't spread it till now!
.
Having Theo in 600BC I started on AP only around 200AD, yes because I had no religion and waited for golden age!
Such a noobish stuff...
Like it's not very well known that bonuses of religion are much greater then the loss from 2 turns of anarchy...
Really feel like replaying this nonsense. Need to take a break, had enough of it for now. Even BUFFY refuses to load on my main OS.
You guys realize I did not revolt into OR since I did not convert into Buddhism (even though I had fricking shrine!).
This backfired soooooo badly in terms of hammers and not only hammers. Not having OR stagnated spreading religion, I haven't spread it till now!
.Having Theo in 600BC I started on AP only around 200AD, yes because I had no religion and waited for golden age!
Such a noobish stuff...
Like it's not very well known that bonuses of religion are much greater then the loss from 2 turns of anarchy...
Really feel like replaying this nonsense. Need to take a break, had enough of it for now. Even BUFFY refuses to load on my main OS.
vranasm
Deity
could you guys please compare number of improvements (I meant cottages/villages etc) in this analysis too? for users with BUG should be easy since it's in "statistics" page.
I understand the difference of hunting gold improving buildings x research improving buildings, what I would like to hear is if you build markets/grocers even in no-cottage cities...
From my experience building grocers everywhere is good thing since it opens supermarkets and trust me at the time of AL you will like to have grocers+supermarkets ready ;-).
I tend to build markets everywhere too since you usually should have all 3 types of happy source so it should pay back for itself.
Would be interesting to see the strategy around research labs/observatories... I tend to build them everywhere too, but really not sure about this one.
I think the bonus hammers apply only when building spaceship parts, but since I tend to use massive parallel building of parts... like around 10 cities at once, I am usually too lazy to analyze which cities will/won't need labs and I just build them everywhere
.
I usually don't spam Unis, since they are really really expensive, but observatories are cheaper.
Interesting thing that I usually don't spam banks, now that I think about it. Markets and grocers added value usually outshines banks and I tend to use tons of wealth building after certain points of evolution of empire.
I usually try to spam buildings when achieving critical tech to spam them in like 3-4 turns and then back to building wealth/research. I talk here mainly about the points where you hit AL, Research Labs, even Observatories and similar "breakthrough" techs in late game.
Industrial parks I usually ignore... would like to hear some thoughts about them ;-). The BUG shows yields of them which usually look neat, but everytime I tried to build couple of them, it kinda felt like I was robbed :-D.
I understand the difference of hunting gold improving buildings x research improving buildings, what I would like to hear is if you build markets/grocers even in no-cottage cities...
From my experience building grocers everywhere is good thing since it opens supermarkets and trust me at the time of AL you will like to have grocers+supermarkets ready ;-).
I tend to build markets everywhere too since you usually should have all 3 types of happy source so it should pay back for itself.
Would be interesting to see the strategy around research labs/observatories... I tend to build them everywhere too, but really not sure about this one.
I think the bonus hammers apply only when building spaceship parts, but since I tend to use massive parallel building of parts... like around 10 cities at once, I am usually too lazy to analyze which cities will/won't need labs and I just build them everywhere
.I usually don't spam Unis, since they are really really expensive, but observatories are cheaper.
Interesting thing that I usually don't spam banks, now that I think about it. Markets and grocers added value usually outshines banks and I tend to use tons of wealth building after certain points of evolution of empire.
I usually try to spam buildings when achieving critical tech to spam them in like 3-4 turns and then back to building wealth/research. I talk here mainly about the points where you hit AL, Research Labs, even Observatories and similar "breakthrough" techs in late game.
Industrial parks I usually ignore... would like to hear some thoughts about them ;-). The BUG shows yields of them which usually look neat, but everytime I tried to build couple of them, it kinda felt like I was robbed :-D.
Vranasm, you brought up some good points I would like to make sure myself.
Can not call myself expert of space ship victory, especially with corps, have few ideas though.
Interestingly you mention hunting gold vs research buildings. Early game with slider high from conquest gold libraries are clearly better. Snaaty kept his tech parity due good tech trades. Later on it's about the same. Banks are best multiplier in game - gives same % for 200 as market+grocer for 300, we need 5 for Wall street anyway, so better get them earlier IMO.
Universities are expensive, may be leave them for after sushi and whip without much pain then.
Late game with corps. Again, I am not an expert but you get 100% multiplier on gold much earlier then on
. Therefore in my hof game I was running more merchants then scientists, for 25% more return. I did not even need to build wealth that much, built research instead. No idea if that was right or wrong. May be Kossin will show up to clarify.
Labs finally up the multiplier to 100% so I built them in every city I was running specs (nearly every city in empire).
Grocers are sure a must for health, markets on the other hand... Here we have tons of happy without markets. But late game when we finally going to need it - BUM ivory, fur and whales are obsolete -6 happy just about the time AI's get Emancipation.
Did not focus on getting supermarkets though, may be I should. BTW it's a good question. I went for recycling centers and mass transits, because they are on our tech path. Was it wrong? No idea.
Here is my statistics screeny:
Can not call myself expert of space ship victory, especially with corps, have few ideas though.
Interestingly you mention hunting gold vs research buildings. Early game with slider high from conquest gold libraries are clearly better. Snaaty kept his tech parity due good tech trades. Later on it's about the same. Banks are best multiplier in game - gives same % for 200
as market+grocer for 300, we need 5 for Wall street anyway, so better get them earlier IMO.Universities are expensive, may be leave them for after sushi and whip without much pain then.
Late game with corps. Again, I am not an expert but you get 100% multiplier on gold much earlier then on
. Therefore in my hof game I was running more merchants then scientists, for 25% more return. I did not even need to build wealth that much, built research instead. No idea if that was right or wrong. May be Kossin will show up to clarify.Labs finally up the
multiplier to 100% so I built them in every city I was running specs (nearly every city in empire).Grocers are sure a must for health, markets on the other hand... Here we have tons of happy without markets. But late game when we finally going to need it - BUM ivory, fur and whales are obsolete -6 happy just about the time AI's get Emancipation.
Did not focus on getting supermarkets though, may be I should. BTW it's a good question. I went for recycling centers and mass transits, because they are on our tech path. Was it wrong? No idea.
Here is my statistics screeny:
Spoiler :
vranasm
Deity
supermarkets are extremely cheap (I think 150 hammers?) and give +4 health... it usually is like 1-2 turns build without whips/chops in non-corporations city.
I think it was TMIt who mentioned them somehwere and they are extremely effective in what you need from them.
the combo of grocer+supermarket should cover easily the factory+coal plant unhealthiness.
And don't forget you will hit genetics too and once you hit it you will be golden.
I tend not to play with corps, but more with SP usually, but it's mostly due to my laziness.
I think it was TMIt who mentioned them somehwere and they are extremely effective in what you need from them.
the combo of grocer+supermarket should cover easily the factory+coal plant unhealthiness.
And don't forget you will hit genetics too and once you hit it you will be golden.
I tend not to play with corps, but more with SP usually, but it's mostly due to my laziness
.^^ Met too, got into corps mess just to try something new and run in circles replaying same 50 turns (mostly trying to delay upcoming nightmare with bazillion ships/execs etc ).
From my experience nothing can help with late game health issues (with strong Sushi). I did not even built industrial parks. Not genetics nor even environmentalism (I did not use this civic, but +6 was still not enough).
).From my experience nothing can help with late game health issues (with strong Sushi). I did not even built industrial parks. Not genetics nor even environmentalism (I did not use this civic, but +6 was still not enough).
@ vranasm:
i didnt build a single bank, nor market, nor grocer except in shrine city and the needed banks got only started recently for wallstreet.
-> since i have the slider at 100% science anyways, it seemed a wast of hammers so far
i full specialized on gold creating buildings and have basically almost all my cities with 4 gold (6 gold with cathetral whatever building). banks+grocers+market would doulbe the income, but since i managed to make enough money to keep the slider up so far and still havent finished the science buildings 150+150+200=700 hammers for 4/6 gold/turn more per city simply never will pay off, in 100 turns this would be 400/600 gold... ...using wonder OV 700 hammers = 2100 gold
...
talking about later-game stuff:
no idea, i still have to fully figure out corps... ...i might ask/add things here later
...
i will post the statistics screen once i get home (didnt now this info was there)
...
@ gkey:
yeah, missing out on OR+reli explains the production issues. take your time, i wont be able to continue my game this WE, and maybe only towards the end of next week, so if you want to replay, feel free to do so... ...actually, i would encourage you to do it, since i really am eager to compare the mining vs. sushi approach (and i promise i will keep posting and comparing our games as detailed as you (and/or others) wish)
concerning your question about buiding wealth:
when a turn starts i always put cities i´m not sure about what to build on wealth, when they pop up (using wonder OV you have to select the cities with the most OV, so you really have to see them all. besides, you have to deselect the wonder in the city you built it the turn before, so you cant put it in the new prod.order at the beginning of the turn)
and i learned the hard way... ...sometimes i simply forget to change production after that in some cities and wealth seems the mosed usefull to me if it happens per accident...
-> i simply havent done the city mm in the save i posted (lazy me)
...
@ doshin:
i will add your save/game to the writeup asap when i find the time
i didnt build a single bank, nor market, nor grocer except in shrine city and the needed banks got only started recently for wallstreet.
-> since i have the slider at 100% science anyways, it seemed a wast of hammers so far
i full specialized on gold creating buildings and have basically almost all my cities with 4 gold (6 gold with cathetral whatever building). banks+grocers+market would doulbe the income, but since i managed to make enough money to keep the slider up so far and still havent finished the science buildings 150+150+200=700 hammers for 4/6 gold/turn more per city simply never will pay off, in 100 turns this would be 400/600 gold... ...using wonder OV 700 hammers = 2100 gold
...
talking about later-game stuff:
no idea, i still have to fully figure out corps... ...i might ask/add things here later
...
i will post the statistics screen once i get home (didnt now this info was there
)...
@ gkey:
yeah, missing out on OR+reli explains the production issues. take your time, i wont be able to continue my game this WE, and maybe only towards the end of next week, so if you want to replay, feel free to do so... ...actually, i would encourage you to do it, since i really am eager to compare the mining vs. sushi approach (and i promise i will keep posting and comparing our games as detailed as you (and/or others) wish)
concerning your question about buiding wealth:
when a turn starts i always put cities i´m not sure about what to build on wealth, when they pop up (using wonder OV you have to select the cities with the most OV, so you really have to see them all. besides, you have to deselect the wonder in the city you built it the turn before, so you cant put it in the new prod.order at the beginning of the turn)
and i learned the hard way... ...sometimes i simply forget to change production after that in some cities and wealth seems the mosed usefull to me if it happens per accident...
-> i simply havent done the city mm in the save i posted (lazy me)
...
@ doshin:
i will add your save/game to the writeup asap when i find the time
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