Anti Americanism - What is it ?

[anarres]

Hollywood movies are by definition American. Like Bollywood movies are by definition India movies. If a person dislikes / hates Hollywood movies because it is American, would that be Anti-American ?

If I understand Marla's and TLC's posts, it is AA. However, so far noone labeled that statement as AA.

Well, I hate *most* Hollywood movies because they are tripe, lowest common denominator, and you require the IQ of a slug to understand their meaning and not get bored.

It just means I hate Hollywood.

Your question says "If somone is anti-american and they dislike this american thing then are they anti-american?". Well, I guess in that case they are anti-american.

If your question said "If somone dislikes this american thing then are they anti-american" then it's another matter, and the answer is we have no idea if they like america or not.

Sorry if that sounded facetious, but it seemed a truism...

 

[luiz]

The Anti-American statements on the list are:

Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
Firstly, it should be mentioned that Guantanamo Bay is a bay. The Guantanamo base is in no way comparable to a Gulag. Where are the labour camps? Where are the starving prisioners? Where are the countless executions?
Anyone who says this suffers from childish anti-americanism.

Americans are egoistic
A very broad generalization, and a strong hint of anti-americanism.

The American dollar is a useless currency
Nobody is that stupid, hence anti-americanism is probably the motivation for such an absurd statement.

The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
Again, this ammount of stupidity can only come from anti-americanism. Compare the US with dozens of african, asian and latin-american nations. In fact, according to Transparency International, the US is one of the least corrupt nations on the world.

I'd kill any American I see
No justification here.

The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
Again.


I hate America
I hate Americans
I hate American products
And again.

 

[Riesstiu IV]

[*]I hate Idaho

Actually most people who live there would probably agree... .

 

[Marla_Singer]

Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
Firstly, it should be mentioned that Guantanamo Bay is a bay. The Guantanamo base is in no way comparable to a Gulag. Where are the labour camps? Where are the starving prisioners? Where are the countless executions?
Anyone who says this suffers from childish anti-americanism.

The issue is that there's no camera allowed, no witness allowed, not even the red cross is welcomed. In such a context, all fantasies can be expressed. Actually, there's no better evidence showing that people are treated well in Gitmo than evidence showing they are badly treated. It merely depends on who you trust the most between newsweek journalists and... uh... well... US Generals.

Americans are egoistic
A very broad generalization, and a strong hint of anti-americanism.

I consider this more as a superficial cliché than as a sign of anti-americanism, but I can follow you. It depends widely on the context though. If an American would say this because he's desappointed about something he had read in the news, I guess you wouldn't call him anti-American but simply depressed.

The American dollar is a useless currency
Nobody is that stupid, hence anti-americanism is probably the motivation for such an absurd statement.

I can follow you here.

The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
Again, this ammount of stupidity can only come from anti-americanism. Compare the US with dozens of african, asian and latin-american nations.

I agree.

In fact, according to Transparency International, the US is one of the least corrupt nations on the world.

Well, that statement is just a blatant evidence of blind pro-Americanism. I don't consider your advice better in here, since I can feel the same bias as the one from Anti-Americans.

I don't like people reasoning ideologically in general. There's not a natural truth saying Americans are all bad people or all good people. Saying either one thing or the other is irrelevant for the matter.

I'd kill any American I see
No justification here.

If that's not anti-American, I hardly see what could be.

I hate America
I hate Americans
I hate American products
And again.

No. Once again, I don't consider saying "I hate Americans" and "I hate American products" is the same. As long as you're able to back your dislike towards American products with rational evidences, then you can hardly be called anti-American. As I've said, saying that new Renault cars or French cars in general are ugly isn't a proof of anti-Frenchism, it simply proves we have taste.

 

[luiz]

The issue is that there's no camera allowed, no witness allowed, not even the red cross is welcomed. In such a context, all fantasies can be expressed. Actually, there's no better evidence showing that people are treated well in Gitmo than evidence showing they are badly treated. It merely depends on who you trust the most between newsweek journalists and... uh... well... US Generals.

Stll, it is not a Gulag. Even if we take the word of the people released from there at face value, and they are all highly critical, still it wouldn't look like a Gulag. Nobody denounced forced labour camps, or daily executions, or widespread starvation. Hence, it can't possibly be compared to a Gulag.

I consider this more as a superficial cliché than as a sign of anti-americanism, but I can follow you. It depends widely on the context though. If an American would say this because he's desappointed about something he had read in the news, I guess you wouldn't call him anti-American but simply depressed.

It's a negative cliché. If someone actually believes that, he probably dislikes the US for no rational reason.

Well, that statement is just a blatant evidence of blind pro-Americanism. I don't consider your advice better in here, since I can feel the same bias as the one from Anti-Americans.

I don't like people reasoning ideologically in general. There's not a natural truth saying Americans are all bad people or all good people. Saying either one thing or the other is irrelevant for the matter.

I was not arguing ideologically, I was mentioning a source that goes against the original statement. And I can post it here http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2004/cpi2004.en.html

No. Once again, I don't consider saying "I hate Americans" and "I hate American products" is the same. As long as you're able to back your dislike towards American products with rational evidences, then you can hardly be called anti-American. As I've said, saying that new Renault cars or French cars in general are ugly isn't a proof of anti-Frenchism, it simply proves we have taste.

Saying "I hate americans cars" would not be anti-american, because there is a certain pattern that we could (wrongly) associate with them. However, there is no possible pattern for "american products". They produce all sorts of stuff. Some of them are made by huge corporations, others are made by small families or even hippie communities. One can't possibly have anything against "american prodcuts" in general.

 

[Leonel]

Jealousy, plain and simple. A country that used to be a colony that clawed its way up from its humble beginnings to become the most powerful nation in the world in under 300 years is gonna recieve ALOT of jealousy compared to a country that is lucky to still exist after over 700 years of stuggling to just survive and become a relatively small but self sustainable country. Much like how the only super smart kid in a class gets teased and scorned by his average school peers.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Jealousy, plain and simple. A country that used to be a colony that clawed its way up from its humble beginnings to become the most powerful nation in the world in under 300 years is gonna recieve ALOT of jealousy compared to a country that is lucky to still exist after over 700 years of stuggling to just survive and become a relatively small but self sustainable country. Much like how the only super smart kid in a class gets teased and scorned by his average school peers.

I think you've misunderstood the question...

AA is only perceived by Americans, it's not a feeling or attitude originating outside America. It's the discussion-killer number 1. As soon as 1 unfriendly word is spoken or typed aimed at something even mildly connected to America, some Americans shout: "AA".
If it was jealousy, as you want us to believe it is, AA would be a strategy or feeling outside America and not a slogan used inside America.

I am however very much interested in your opinion. Please read the thread and comment again.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Jealousy, plain and simple.

The widespread US motto "they hate us because they're jealous" tells more about Americans (in general) than about "them" (those targetted by that statement).

Indeed, anyone saying this, no matter from which country he could come from, only proves that he's focused on himself. I guess you would also laugh if I were telling you that "Americans hate France because they're jealous". And you would be perfectly right to laugh at this, because it's plain stupid.

I don't think this deserves more explanations.

 

[Gogf]

The war in Iraq is bad No
Guantanamo bay is a Gulag Not really, but completely wrong.
The American government are doing a bad job No
Americans are egoistic Yes
The American dollar is a useless currency I agree with Luiz on this.
Mc Donald's sucks No
Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty Indirectly
Fools love guns No
I hate Idaho No
The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth Potentially
I prefer Japanese cars over American cars No
Ronald Reagan was a bad president No
Lincoln was ugly No
I don't like Hollywood movies No
I'd kill any American I see Yes
The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes Yes, if the speaker is calling them heroes because they are killing Americans.
Bush is not the smartest world-leader No
Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable No
Bush is stupid No
I hate America Yes
I hate Americans Yes
I hate American products No

 

[Sparta]

Jealousy, plain and simple.

No offense, but I'd hope that people don't take this viewpoint to be that typical of Americans. I certainly hope it is not.

 

[Fetus4188]

The war in Iraq is bad
No.
Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
No.
The American government are doing a bad job
No.
Americans are egoistic
In the right context.
The American dollar is a useless currency
No.
Mc Donald's sucks
If the reason McDonald's sucks is because it is American, yes.
Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty
No.
Fools love guns
No.
I hate Idaho
No.
The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
Potentially.
I prefer Japanese cars over American cars
No.
Ronald Reagan was a bad president
No.
Lincoln was ugly
No.
I don't like Hollywood movies
No.
I'd kill any American I see
Yes.
The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
Yes.
Bush is not the smartest world-leader
No.
Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable
No.
Bush is stupid
Just a stupid comment altogether.
I hate America
Yes.
I hate Americans
Yes.
I hate American products
If the reason for the hatred is because they are American, yes.

 

[CurtSibling]

Jealousy, plain and simple. A country that used to be a colony that clawed its way up from its humble beginnings to become the most powerful nation in the world in under 300 years is gonna recieve ALOT of jealousy compared to a country that is lucky to still exist after over 700 years of stuggling to just survive and become a relatively small but self sustainable country. Much like how the only super smart kid in a class gets teased and scorned by his average school peers.

Sir, I would say you are far off the mark.

As I Brit, I find it hard to imagine anything in the USA that I would yearn for.
My country provides all I require, and is among the best in the world - What more do I want?

PS
No disrespect to my yank pals, I do think the US rocks, but I am anything but 'jealous'....

 

[AceChilla]

You can't look at a single sentences and judge if they are anti-American. It depends on the context and the justification's given.

But it obviously exists. If you look how critical some Europeans are of the states and how they look away at far worse things in China, Russia, Turkey or even there own country you can't say it's fair and balanced critisism. Some Europeans just love to bash the US, why? because it's easy, everybody is doing it and the US is a real nice scapegoat.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

I typically define anti-Americanism as being in opposition to the best interests of the United States. For instance, somebody who wants to see the status of the United States decline rather than increase is, for me, an anti-American.

The sort of reflexive anti-Americans who Drunk Master refers to are typically a subset of people of those views. I don't imagine any of them want to see American power increase.

 

[Rotte Rosa]

* The war in Iraq is bad Definitely not
* Guantanamo bay is a Gulag Oversimplification but no
* The American government are doing a bad job why is this on the list?
* Americans are egoistic yep, and who isn't, no
* The American dollar is a useless currency er...yes if stupidity qualifies
* Mc Donald's sucks big time-no
* Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty debatable...no
* Fools love guns and roses...no
* I hate Idaho this is AI (antiIdahonism)...no
* The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth ?
* I prefer Japanese cars over American cars no
* Ronald Reagan was a bad president no
* Lincoln was ugly hehe...no
* I don't like Hollywood movies yes, it is cinematic stereotyping
* I'd kill any American I see duh
* The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes duh duh
* Bush is not the smartest world-leader no
* Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable no
* Bush is stupid no
* I hate America yes
* I hate Americans yes
* I hate American products yes

Of course taken in context many would change, like when I saw Kingdom of haven I said "I hate holywood" and evry time I see Frank Capra I say "I love Holywood"...

 

[Padma]

Obviously, much of the list given is *not* anti-American, on the face of it. Context is very important.

The problems I see in OT are when one makes a supposedly non-anti-American statement, but instead of backing it up with facts, piles on innuendo, and simply uses it to goad Americans. In *that* context, it can be considered anti-Americanism.

As to the second list, I would like to point out that it *is* possible to be an American and still be anti-American. Many on the far-Left are in exactly this position.

 

[classical_hero]

Is there something like Anti-Australian?

We prefer to use the term "UnAustralian".

 

[AceChilla]

I typically define anti-Americanism as being in opposition to the best interests of the United States. For instance, somebody who wants to see the status of the United States decline rather than increase is, for me, an anti-American.

The sort of reflexive anti-Americans who Drunk Master refers to are typically a subset of people of those views. I don't imagine any of them want to see American power increase.

So you are an AEAAASETO!

Anti-European,African,Asian,Australian,South American, Extra Terrestiallian and Oceanean,Zimbawean?

Anti-world, except for a small piece of the north-American continent.

 

[OrpheusPrime]

Its hard not to fear that which you have no control over and those in power. The U.S. is in a position of global power and completely out of the control of non-US voters. Hatred is the offspring of fear.

 

[ummmm........]

I didn't read any of the other responses first since I didn't want to be influenced by them. So I may be repeating people.

• The war in Iraq is bad
  No. That's an opinion. (or maybe just an opinion I agree with )
• Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
  Yes. That's a statement designed to generate an emotional rather than an intellectual response.
• The American government are doing a bad job
  No. It's a government. You're supposed to make fun of them.
• Americans are egoistic
  Yes. It groups all Americans into one class and assumes that "they" all share the same negative characteristic. The very definition of bigotry.
• The American dollar is a useless currency
  No. It's too absurd to be taken seriously. Comedy is always okay.
• Mc Donald's sucks
  No. See "The war in Iraq is bad". It's possible that this person could be under the impression that multinational corporations are somehow "American" and that America is therefore responsible for making the world a smaller place, and they see it as a bad thing, but that interpretation seems like a stretch. It sounds more like they just don't like eating at McDonald's.
• Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty
  No. See "The war in Iraq is wrong." This statement doesn't specifically refer to the US. They could be having a discussion that doesn't even involve the US.
• Fools love guns
  No. Again too absurd to be taken literally, and doesn't refer to the US at all.
• I hate Idaho
  No. Doesn't have anything to do with the US, and could be said by someone who just got a ticket while they were driving through it or something.
• The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
  Borderline. Close to the absurd comedy that some of the others have slipped passed on, but just sort of sounds like something a bigot would say.
• I prefer Japanese cars over American cars
  No. Just expressing an opinion, and there's no venom there.
• Ronald Reagan was a bad president
  Nope.
• Lincoln was ugly
  No.
• I don't like Hollywood movies
  No.
• I'd kill any American I see
  No. Psychopathic, not anti-American.
• The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
  No.
• Bush is not the smartest world-leader
  No. It has the virtue of understatement.
• Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable
  Nope. Doesn't have anything to do with America.
• Bush is stupid
  No.
• I hate America
  Borderline. See the answer to the Idaho statement.
• I hate Americans
  Yes. See the "Americans are egoistic" statement.
• I hate American products
  No.

Basically it's just like any other form of prejudice. I think your confusion with the posts on this board is that a few posters have identified themselves as anti-American, so they don't get the benefit of the doubt on the borderline statements. Or some of the "no" statements either, really . . .

Many more posters are trolls who just say things to get the more jingoistic American posters all hot and bothered.