Are you pre-ordering?

[TheMeInTeam]

I noticed that the Aztecs are included with preorders. I normally don't preorder games. I prefer to wait until after the initial "shakedown cruise" for bug fixes and gameplay tweaks (and maybe for a sale price). Still, the Civ series is pretty reliable and I've played both of the last two games until I slumped forward onto the keyboard in exhaustion.

Is anyone preordering? Do you normally preorder games or will Civ be an exception? Are you an Aztec fanboy?

Civ series has been a joke on release for two games in a row in the mainline series. In the objective sense, they have repeatedly failed to deliver what they advertised.

You can make a case that they eventually become good, but that's not a strong case for pre-order.

Pre-ordering civ makes as much sense as pre-ordering an unfinished car, of a make and model that was recalled the last two times. Eventually that car was solid after a few recalls, so let's pre-order it!

No. Can we please not incentivize beta release games? Why must this be a doormat market?

I hope they have the same atitude towards subjects that actually matter at the very least otherwise I know who to pity.

Yes, its is generally advisable to not ignore a track record of poor performance/quality, and yes that's more important when the product is your brakes or the quality of food consumed.

The reality is that in markets where people don't accept false advertising and poor release quality on the expectation that it will get better, the products being held to a higher standard by purchasers actually reach that standard.

At least thats how their juvenile reasoning goes on

Name calling/making insulting implications of people who disagree is not something that will command respect. The point is that behavior creates incentive for other behavior.

In essence, massed tolerance for low quality does in fact incentivize products being produced at lower quality, or rather disincentivizes putting in more investment to make the quality meet even its own listed standards. You can call that juvenile if you want, but it doesn't change reality. The incentives and their consequences are clear.

The biggest reason for "buggy" releases is due to hardware. It is difficult to bench test all types of hardware configurations.

I wasn't aware hardware caused the UI to misrepresent what would happen or make MP fail constantly with only a fraction of the players allegedly possible. Care to elaborate what hardware issue causes these things? I'm sure it can't be that difficult to do if these are legit hardware issues. What was the interaction?

 

[LDiCesare]

Catering for different hardware makes it harder to develop. That was Civ 4 problem at launch with regards to graphics cards (if I remember well, it was ATI cards that were not handled correctly at all). It does not explain everything, and there are still bugs (like some mountains being depicted as hills except in strat view) that have never been fixed in Civ 5.

 

[Oleary]

Yes. I'll continue to support companies that make the games I enjoy.

I have a hard time believing that pre-orders have any effect on the development cycle of a Civ game. By the time it's ready for pre-order, I would imagine the game is set in stone. This isn't their first rodeo...

 

[Miravlix]

The huge problem that the game companies and movie companies too has is that they have to pay before they get paid. This has resulted in the early access and gah, I've forgotten what those sites that allow scammers to tell you they will do something if you give them huge cash piles, is called.

I also think that's driving factor in the pre-release hype train, because the sooner you get cash, the better, your at the end of your rope at this point.

 

[Ebrim]

Definitely pre-ordering. I know I'm going to get the game so it just makes sense.

 

[BornInTheLoo]

I have pre-ordered just now. I think it is the second time (BNW was the first). The Civ Games (for me!) are about more than just game play. They are also starting points for going down geeky wikipedia rabbit holes and broaden my knowledge of the world and world history in specific. I will get my money's worth even if the game play is buggy at start. And even if it is, Firaxis will fix it later. Civ 6 doesn't feel as rushed as Civ 5, but we will see.

The Aztec thing doesn't play a role. On the contrary, it would almost urge me not to pre-order, as I think it's silly to withhold game content for three months, just to get people to pre-order.

 

[Lexicus]

Have to admit I'm quite discouraged by the poll results, pre-ordering games incentivizes studios to release crap.

 

[Miravlix]

Have to admit I'm quite discouraged by the poll results, pre-ordering games incentivizes studios to release crap.

It's the opposite...

If you throw your money at them, they can relax and wait until the game works to release it.

Only problem is that 2K/Firaxis seems to get it wrong and starts pre-orders with a guaranteed release data preventing them from waiting until the product is ready.

Look at EUIV next expansion as an example, it's up for pre-order, with NO RELEASE date.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

No.

History has shown that the launch versions of Firaxis games usually have significant issues, so there is really no reason to risk preodering them.
Although I guess there could be an argument to do so if you get a nice 25% pre-release sale on GMG or the like. Otherwise? Certainly not.

It's the opposite...

If you throw your money at them, they can relax and wait until the game works to release it.
[...]

That might be true for a small indie studio, but the development cycle for a AAA is quite different from that.

 

[raen]

I was thinking no, I dont know if will run well at my PC, I need to demo it first.

But now I saw that with Steam I can return it and get my money back, even if is a pre-order.

 

[Martin Alvito]

I haven't bought anything day one since Diablo 3. Which was hugely profitable for me, but between that experience and the single-player Mass Effect 3 experience (multiplayer was a blast, granted) I've gotten away from paying anything approaching full freight for AAA games. Why play this year's game when I've got a huge backlog anyway and I can pay $10 to play last year's game? I spent $25 on Mirror's Edge Catalyst during the Amazon sale (I love me some Mirror's Edge) and considered it extravagant.

That said, I will pre-order Civ 6 knowing full well what I'm getting into. Why? Well, for me much of the fun in the Civ series lies in finding all the broken stuff and exploiting it to the hilt. If it weren't for forced patching, I'd fire up vanilla Civ 5 and see just how fast I could get the Babylonians to Rifles knowing everything I know now. Why? Because flattening a continent with Rifles when everyone else is in late Classical and Medieval is funny.

Waiting just means there will be fewer entertainingly stupid things to do in the game, and to me it's worth the price. While people blindly paying full sticker price for a product of unknown quality certainly isn't helping the state of the industry, I'm of the opinion that the ease of patching via broadband ultimately is the culprit. Why bother paying people and buying 99 different types of system to test your product when you can put it out there and have the consumer do it for you? It's not like the price is going to drop in the first three months for a really huge title, so people are going to pay your asking price whether it works at release or not as long as you can fix it fast enough.

 

[SJSerio]

Civ series has been a joke on release for two games in a row in the mainline series. In the objective sense, they have repeatedly failed to deliver what they advertised.

You can make a case that they eventually become good, but that's not a strong case for pre-order.

Here is the thing... Civilization V was a big divergence over its predecessors. Their were a lot of changes and that means big risks, both gameplay-wise and balancing. There were many factors that often come to light once the core market gets a hold of the game. With Civilization: BE, they did pretty much deliver on what they promised... a civilization game on an alien planet. However, the game fell flat with stale gameplay, mostly brought about by the restrictive narrative that they wrapped the game around. Both games had their value and lessons which is up to the developers to take in and learn from.

Pre-ordering civ makes as much sense as pre-ordering an unfinished car, of a make and model that was recalled the last two times. Eventually that car was solid after a few recalls, so let's pre-order it!

No. Can we please not incentivize beta release games? Why must this be a doormat market?

Apples and Oranges, man! One is a massive machine where any mistakes or problems can cost lives... the other is a video game. There is a BIG difference.

Name calling/making insulting implications of people who disagree is not something that will command respect. The point is that behavior creates incentive for other behavior.

It goes both ways, you know... calling out people who preorder and saying that they are the problem is essentially calling them "idiots".

In essence, massed tolerance for low quality does in fact incentivize products being produced at lower quality, or rather disincentivizes putting in more investment to make the quality meet even its own listed standards. You can call that juvenile if you want, but it doesn't change reality. The incentives and their consequences are clear.

This may be true with SOME companies in the industry, but can hardly be applied to every company out there. I'll touch more on this later...

I wasn't aware hardware caused the UI to misrepresent what would happen or make MP fail constantly with only a fraction of the players allegedly possible. Care to elaborate what hardware issue causes these things? I'm sure it can't be that difficult to do if these are legit hardware issues. What was the interaction?

I never said that hardware was the SOLE reason for issues after release. But it is a BIG issue. Yes, there are almost always a few bugs that show up that have nothing to do with the hardware configuration or anything. Also some issues that are the result of poor to bad design decisions or short-sightedness. Still, a large portion of issues are usually hardware related due to the different configurations that can be found with an open system such as the PC. They can be frustrating, they can be annoying, but most GOOD companies react and fix those issues pretty quickly. With the rapid change of tech and variety of hardware, that problem is only going to get worse, and that is something that the game developers cannot be faulted on.

Have to admit I'm quite discouraged by the poll results, pre-ordering games incentivizes studios to release crap.

I'm sorry to hear that you are discouraged. Rest assured that your opinion that "pre-ordering games incentivizes studios to release crap" is noted. Though I highly disagree, your opinion is out there.

No.

History has shown that the launch versions of Firaxis games usually have significant issues, so there is really no reason to risk preodering them.
Although I guess there could be an argument to do so if you get a nice 25% pre-release sale on GMG or the like. Otherwise? Certainly not.


That might be true for a small indie studio, but the development cycle for a AAA is quite different from that.

Yes, there were issues with the initial release of the last two civilization games (Civilization V and Beyond Earth). The thing is, and why I have faith in Firaxis, is that they are a fan-based company... meaning that they often listen to their fans and do their best to appease them. Of course, they can't appease every fan... but they sure do try from everything that I have seen. Unlike certain other companies (who shall remain nameless... though their initials start with E and A ) who disregard fans complaints, wants, and wishes because they have their own idea of what is best and no puny player can possibly know better than them.

But I digress. Firaxis, like any company, is not infallible. They do make mistakes. But as long as they remain as they are in regards to how they view their fans, they will always get my benefit of the doubt and support, including through pre-orders of games that I know that I am going to get anyway. The moment that they become like that latter company... that is when I will turn away from them as they had done to me.

 

[Lexicus]

It goes both ways, you know... calling out people who preorder and saying that they are the problem is essentially calling them "idiots".

They aren't the problem, they just contribute to it.

 

[LDiCesare]

Yes, there were issues with the initial release of the last two civilization games (Civilization V and Beyond Earth).

Please include Civ IV in the list. It was unplayable with ATI graphics cards unless you made a map on paper and were very very dedicated/patient and didn't mind looking at a totally black terrain.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Please include Civ IV in the list. It was unplayable with ATI graphics cards unless you made a map on paper and were very very dedicated/patient and didn't mind looking at a totally black terrain.

YES. 4 was the worst of them all, and people pretend it wasn't. At least V's shoddy release didn't lock up my PC.

 

[SJSerio]

Please include Civ IV in the list. It was unplayable with ATI graphics cards unless you made a map on paper and were very very dedicated/patient and didn't mind looking at a totally black terrain.

Yes... And that was largely do to hardware compatibility. The issues were resolved.

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk

 

[LDiCesare]

Obviously if they hadn't solved that, everybody with such a card would have demanded a refund or sued for false advertising and they'd have lost about half their marketshare.
The bugs people complain here about are more subtle or don't affect such a large proportion of the game base (like MP).

 

[jekke]

But if various hardware is so much of a problem, and the numerous bugs occur because the developers can't/don't have time to test the game on various machines, don't you guys think it is rather the company (if anyone) who should pay people for testing, and not people - for an honour to test the unfinished product?

 

[gunnergoz]

I'll pre-order because its Civ VI.

 

[paulmclem]

Can I ask a Q about the Deluxe? It includes 4 DLCs, exactly what they are is unclear - presumably another civ, maps etc. Being relatively new to Civ I have no idea what these DLCs will cost when they go on release. What I'm asking is it worth the extra money for Deluxe or would the standard game + buying the DLCs amount to the same thing?

PaulC.