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Yeah LH, stop slacking off!
Argentina III: Argentina is Missing!
- Thread starter NinjaCow64
- Start date
Uhm, you haven't updated your game in half a year…
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 14,926
It's been updating on the Frontier.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
(It's a joke, Lighthearter's been gone for years.)
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
The Frontier has also been gone for years...
Yesterday I found out the IOT Wiki page for myself was using incorrect pronouns to refer to me. Also was discovered that Rosie's dead name was present on her page. The articles were thereafter edited to correct my page and remove the offending name for Rosie. However, when I woke up I found that both edits were overturned by the administrator of the wiki, both now showing improper information about us. What explains this? I understand the wiki has gone through a rash of vandalism recently, but both of those were proper changes designed to accurately reflect the users without impugning the ability to acquire information from them. Frankly I find our previous desire to remove the pages entirely justified, if we are now going to be stopped from editing our own profiles to make them better.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
I can only throw my full support behind you. There is no reason, archival or otherwise, that can justify the maintenance of articles on people against their will, not for such a thing as an IOT wiki.
Especially if their maintenance disrespect the very dignity and identity of their subject. Transphobia is not cool.
Especially if their maintenance disrespect the very dignity and identity of their subject. Transphobia is not cool.
jackelgull
An aberration of nature
Chiming in to add my support, because honestly this is messed up. There is no reason for there to be an IOT wiki. What purpose does a record of the drama in a forum game serve? It only exists for personal satisfaction, which is a terrible reason to maintain articles on people against their will, especially when the maintenance of such articles also disrespects them by misgendering them and using names they no longer associate with.
I suppose that entries to the wiki can only be changed by users who are logged in and the changes themselves are registered. Can't we see who did it?
(x-post edit) I also agree with jackelgull on why should there be an IOT wiki, of all things.
(x-post edit) I also agree with jackelgull on why should there be an IOT wiki, of all things.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
I sincerely and wholeheartedly apologize to @Red_Spy for any recent offence. As has been established, the IOT Wiki has been the target of concerted vandalism for several days now, and anonymous good-faith edits were unfortunately interpreted as false positives. Admin has restored editing privileges and the pages have been ameliorated, although they will probably remain anon-protected until the crisis abates.
Reminder to anyone with any questions or concerns, you can consult in confidence through the relevant channels.
Reminder to anyone with any questions or concerns, you can consult in confidence through the relevant channels.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
despite my requests my page on IOT Wiki is still up there
Immaculate
unerring
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2003
- Messages
- 7,623
So who maintains the wiki and wrote the articles?
I have to say that I didnt know they existed before and went and read two entries on players and (assuming these are representative) I personally feel all articles on players should be taken down; the articles I read are plainly not helpful... and may actually be hurtful.
I have to say that I didnt know they existed before and went and read two entries on players and (assuming these are representative) I personally feel all articles on players should be taken down; the articles I read are plainly not helpful... and may actually be hurtful.
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gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
The main maintainer of the IOT Wiki by far is @Thorvald of Lym, and in fact, you could very well say it was his idea in the first place.
Couldn't have said it better myself, old chap. I think the Wiki management should open the Wiki back up and allow the subjects of these articles the final say in determining how they are presented forthwith.
I should also mention, perusing some of the other articles, that I struggle to find the archival value in the Wiki as a whole, as it is presented. The tone of the articles seems biased and is as much about chronicling the interpersonal drama of these games (airing all the dirty laundry) as it is about presenting the games as such. For example, where is the article on December World, which is roundly considered one of the definitive IOTs of the last few years? Why do articles have "Controversy" sections that laundry list complaints about the GM without any accountability or credit as to the source of the complaints, instead acting like what were, in fact, personal quabbles were actually general complaints? It makes me question whether the interest in maintaining an "archive" is authentic.
It honestly seems like bullying. I think the community should place itself above such pettiness and instead focus on the great games we can play in the future, or now.
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The wiki's always been in a tough spot. Any game that achieves complexity and player dedication that it starts to build up an actual history is almost always better off with it's own wiki if needed. The wiki articles can't talk about mechanics because I nuked most of my rulesets and most people don't go into ruleset analysis mode like I do in the first place. The only universal therefore between games is drama between users who haven't been on the subforum for years.
Like, you read things like this.
And are forced to ask what does it even means. IOT IV's mechanics were out of date by the end of the year it was written and nobody could look at most games after it and say, "Yes, most of these are derived from IOT IV."
It is a time capsule at best; which is fine I suppose.
98% of the articles about users largely read like the kind of articles you'd read on a wiki dedicated to, like, YouTubers.
gay_Aleks
from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free!
Just get rid of it. Or, at least, of the player pages that people have requested taking down.
+1, right to anonymity and oblivion ftw.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
Since I have now been publicly outed, I will respond in full and without reservation.
Firstly: I did not create the Wiki; Sone did. I am sick and tired of this constant misrepresentation that it was conceived as some personal scrapbook. Sone essentially abandoned it, and since I was the most active user I was offered first refusal for adoption.
To "why not MY game???": At the start, other people participated with relative regularity. Suffice to say, that dwindled, and I was left the only functioning editor. The goal, were this project to continue, would have been a complete archive of all known games, like the NES Wiki but actually useful. But I only have so much time in the day, and over the past year sometimes I barely manage an hour on CivFanatics. Some articles take multiple days to write because I try to get as complete an edit as possible in one go. Thus, I've had to prioritize based on simple work-hours.
To article tone: Reiterating from the above, I was left the only functioning editor. Had an actual team developed around the Wiki, any personal bias that slipped through would have been evened out through peer review. Instead, I was left on my own, and essentially continued on autopilot based on the few customs established at the start. Complaints on tone tended to be snide snipes in chat, often conflating me with the articles' original author(s); Lighthearter's page comes to mind. Only a handful of people ever actually approached me in anything I would regard as a serious dialogue. That said, to anyone who feels they were personally attacked or defamed, I apologize.
As to the recent drama:
The Red_Spy incident was mea culpa and a detailed apology was issued on closed channels, though as of this writing I have no knowledge if it was received.
The accusations leveled against me in what I can only describe as a dogpile, by people who until recently I believed if not friends than at least cordial acquaintances, have left me deeply shaken. I take responsibility for my failures, but the fact that there was not even the consideration of an honest mistake by people who have known me, in some cases nearly a decade, is forcing me to re-evaluate my presence in this community. If I am worth so little of your trust, I see little reason to burden you with my presence further.
I have always tried to avoid dragging my personal life onto these forums, but even before the wiki drama the past two weeks have been a dumpster fire. My primary work computer is suffering hardware failure and I can manage only intermittent contact, so the fact this is all blowing up at once is only compounding existing stress, and it's certainly not helped that much like the perennial wiki disputes, people would rather make public snipes, conspire in private, and act through proxies than consult with me beforehand in good faith.
I have set the wiki to confirmed-users only to stymie further vandalism and will begin inquiries into official closure, including Tanicius' derelict fork. I have yet to decide the future of ongoing projects hosted here, but rest assured, the "little weirdo" won't trouble your future threads.
I stand by what I said when Reus quit, but he was right. Call me a hypocrite if you like for doing the same now, but either get your house in order or suffer the same fate as NES.
No cigarette, no blindfold.
Firstly: I did not create the Wiki; Sone did. I am sick and tired of this constant misrepresentation that it was conceived as some personal scrapbook. Sone essentially abandoned it, and since I was the most active user I was offered first refusal for adoption.
To "why not MY game???": At the start, other people participated with relative regularity. Suffice to say, that dwindled, and I was left the only functioning editor. The goal, were this project to continue, would have been a complete archive of all known games, like the NES Wiki but actually useful. But I only have so much time in the day, and over the past year sometimes I barely manage an hour on CivFanatics. Some articles take multiple days to write because I try to get as complete an edit as possible in one go. Thus, I've had to prioritize based on simple work-hours.
To article tone: Reiterating from the above, I was left the only functioning editor. Had an actual team developed around the Wiki, any personal bias that slipped through would have been evened out through peer review. Instead, I was left on my own, and essentially continued on autopilot based on the few customs established at the start. Complaints on tone tended to be snide snipes in chat, often conflating me with the articles' original author(s); Lighthearter's page comes to mind. Only a handful of people ever actually approached me in anything I would regard as a serious dialogue. That said, to anyone who feels they were personally attacked or defamed, I apologize.
As to the recent drama:
The Red_Spy incident was mea culpa and a detailed apology was issued on closed channels, though as of this writing I have no knowledge if it was received.
The accusations leveled against me in what I can only describe as a dogpile, by people who until recently I believed if not friends than at least cordial acquaintances, have left me deeply shaken. I take responsibility for my failures, but the fact that there was not even the consideration of an honest mistake by people who have known me, in some cases nearly a decade, is forcing me to re-evaluate my presence in this community. If I am worth so little of your trust, I see little reason to burden you with my presence further.
I have always tried to avoid dragging my personal life onto these forums, but even before the wiki drama the past two weeks have been a dumpster fire. My primary work computer is suffering hardware failure and I can manage only intermittent contact, so the fact this is all blowing up at once is only compounding existing stress, and it's certainly not helped that much like the perennial wiki disputes, people would rather make public snipes, conspire in private, and act through proxies than consult with me beforehand in good faith.
I have set the wiki to confirmed-users only to stymie further vandalism and will begin inquiries into official closure, including Tanicius' derelict fork. I have yet to decide the future of ongoing projects hosted here, but rest assured, the "little weirdo" won't trouble your future threads.
I stand by what I said when Reus quit, but he was right. Call me a hypocrite if you like for doing the same now, but either get your house in order or suffer the same fate as NES.
No cigarette, no blindfold.
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