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armaggedon counter - the punishement for the evils

Discussion in 'Wildmana Modmod' started by scutarii, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

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    Yeah with the new magic system implemented in Wildmana it would make sense to make most of the AC effects go hand in hand with the system.
    Make it so that for every point above 0 it benefits dark magic(Via reduced costs/maintenance), for every point below, it benefits light magic. Obviously you'd have to make it so that The AC counter can go into the negatives.

    Make it so that the global enchantments can prevent hell terrain spread (with a higher cost if you're evil) and as the AC rises the cost of these enchantments will go up accordingly till you're overwhelmed.

    The way you can currently(Pre 9.0) just go out and sanctify terrain makes most of the AC system ignorable.
    The current system with no incentive to raise it makes it pointless game-play wise.
     
  2. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    done. it is evil alignment only now.
     
  3. Caradoc

    Caradoc Emperor

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    I have a game going where the AC had risen to 12% around turn 30. Obviously Ashen Veil had not been founded by then, so I've got to wonder what's going on. Is there an Event for all players that can bump the AC by that much? Would Graveyards maturing into Necropolises account for it? By turn 120, where I am now, the AC has gone down to 7%, but there is no reason to think a Mercurian Gate has been opened.
     
  4. graywarden

    graywarden King

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    no i think this is probably an anamoly of sorts, i have seen tests that get a quick bump up, and i think that is contributed mostly to various random events that can affect the AC count, both up and down. If enough of the right ones hit in a short period of time you can get an early spike like that, and as you noted it dropped back down. Probably also random events taking place with the various AI players.
     
  5. tesb

    tesb Emperor

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    @Caradoc
    this mostly happens because graveyards upgrade to necropolises. each graveyard that upgrades increase the AC by 2 and they all upgrade at the same time afaik. so there is always a bump in the ac at a certain turn.
     
  6. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    might be a good idea to give each graveyard a somewhat random time to get to necropolis to avoid that methinks. it's a problem especially when using the erebuscontinent option that places a lot of them around :lol:
     
  7. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Ah, the FfH Game Mechanics. Often contrary to the lore, a perpetual source of justification attempts and gameplay people boldly finding more anti-lore synergies...
     
  8. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    Here's a random thought: The horsemen don't target evil civs (at first).
    Bump the AC up quickly enough, and you can laugh maniacally as their bronze warriors try to take on Stephanos and co. Of course, any evil unit hanging around the horseman would be fair game. Just much lower on the priorities.
    Once all the evil civs are gone, the horsemen go for the neutrals. Once those are gone the evils show up on the menu.

    Not much of a change, but it would certainly get the good civs a bit more worried about a high AC, especially early game. Of course, the horsemen aren't that much of a threat later on. I had some ideas about that a while back. Now where did I put those...

    *rummage rummage*

    Here it is. Had to do more with a lack of AC scariness, but I think it's still applicable to the thread.

    Edit: More rummaging has brought out more of my old ruminations, some of these directly dealing with making the Armageddon more useful to evil civs. Nothing ever came of these ideas ( :( ) but maybe that can change now?

     
  9. tharg

    tharg Warlord

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    I tend to think of Hell Terrain as a counterbalance to “sacrifice the weak”. Agreed its a bummer being evil and non AV.
     
  10. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    excellent post fafnir, I agree with most of it, good ideas.
     
  11. Tschuggi

    Tschuggi SNAFU

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    Moin,

    I strongly vote for Fafnir13s' ideas!!! AC, horseman and Avatar of wrath till now is only a small pain in the ass. Armageddon is the end of erebus as we know it, so the effects really have to be devastating. Fafnir made very good suggestions, also how evil civs can actually benefit from high AC.

    Greez,

    Tschuggi
     
  12. squadbroken

    squadbroken King

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    I'm fairly certain the reason the AC is more punishing to evil civs is because it's supposed to be punishment for their deeds. The whole FFH end-of-the-world thing is heavily based on Christian apocalyticism; the faithful are protected (to some degree, at least), the sinners punished. The only civ that gets any real benefit from the AC is the one that is actually trying to destroy the world.
     
  13. Err0l

    Err0l Chieftain

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    It would make sense for good civs actually being hit by hell terrain and, generally, the more good you are the longer it would take for hell terrain to spread to you, BUT the harder the impact will be once it hits. Gives incentive to keep the AC down a bit if you are good.
     
  14. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    yep, as usual please let gameplay trample lore if it turns out to be too hard to keep both intact.
     
  15. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    Except that's not what's going on. The Christian Apocalypse is Judgemeant on the world. The Erebus one is the world being actively corrupted and destroyed by Agares and co (iirc). Ultimately, the plan is that everybody's going to die.
     
  16. squadbroken

    squadbroken King

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    It might not be identical to the Christian Apocalypse but it's obviously heavily based on it. Both lorewise and in practice.

    As far as mechanics go, as Kael himself states, the primary reason for the AC is to polarize the world and drive conflict, not to directly benefit anyone outside of a few special cases. Most of the "penalties" suffered by evil civs can be mitigated with the AV civic, and it encourages neutrals to pick a side.
     
  17. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    I don't see any real polarization in game. There has to be a reason for one side to want the AC high and one to want it low. As it is, the only real problem for Evil Civs is hell terrain. When I play evil and the Infernals are summoned, I make wiping Hyborem out and sanctifying his lands my top priority. If I can do that, there is literally NO difference between playing good or playing evil as the AC rises.
     
  18. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    No, there has to be a reason for the AC to get high, not a reason for a side to want it high.

    There is plenty of reason (lore-wise, at least) for Good to want to keep AC low, and adding mechanics towards that is fine. However, Evil civs do not want a high AC. They should have a reason to want to perform actions which increase the AC as a consequence of the action, not the cause of it. For example, you want to sacrifice that slave to gain research? Go right ahead... but the AC is going up. Raze that city and take some of it's population as slaves? Sure, but again, AC is going up.

    Changing hell and armageddon is fine, and I plan it for RifE... but it should remain a consequence, not a cause, of your actions.
     
  19. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    what valk said
     
  20. BlackArchon

    BlackArchon Warlord

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    I disagree with rewarding evil players for a high AC. Only the Sheaim want to destroy the world. Why should Auric Ulvin destroy the world? He wants to rule it again. Why should the Svartalfar destroy the world? They want to rebuild their empire. Why should the Balseraph destroy the world? Being dead isn't so much fun. And so on.
     

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