Art and Lore

Statesman looks great, as do the Demons. ;)

The Lizards are a bit odd.... Mostly because the star outline shows on the regular icons. :lol:

There're no stars on the regular icons. I had to add black outline to the figures for them to be more distinctive when resized for city screen.
 
This is what I meant. The shape of the star shows in the outline, even if it's not there. ;)
 

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"# VSPavlov's Civ Banners for the pedia screen; All but D'tesh have a banner."

Why don't they? I've uploaded one, and you even liked it ;-)
 
A small soft man sat straightened in a middle of a small softly lit room which walls were adorned with racked bolts of cloth - light brown, leafy yellow-green, misty gray and obsidian black - the colours seemed to somehow blend into each other without even a single hint of a dissonant contrast. His arms were in a blur of motion, cutting canvas with a sole strokes by small blades mounted on his fingertips, darting for a diffierent-sized and shaped needles with intricate threads inserted from his wristbands and sewing together a pieces of cloth with complicated pattern so swiftly that it appeared they are melding together by some sort of a spell of regrowth. Despite that flurry of activity his voice streamed in rhythm without interruption as he spoke as to himself, occasionally casting brief appraising looks upon young nobleman who sat beside the door and watched in a silent awe: "The clothing is as much a weapon as it is an armor and an asset; it saves our warmth, defines who we are, conceals and attracts attention, impresses the onlookers and the wearer; the classical example be the king and beggar, the servant's gown and uniform of guard, the Balseraph assassin's buffoon outfit, of whom you unafraid until your very death, or Esus chosen' blacken suit, whom you don't even notice; they all adorn their roles with a cloth among the other tools. Improper-fashioned, sewed with mismatch in size and colour are causes of tension and ire, while those that match the body, mind and spirit are bringing comfort, strengthening what they designed to accent. And meanwhile your wedding gown is finished; it shall be certain for onlookers that the young one wearing it is a son of noble wealthy house, who's handsome and wealthy both in gold and heart; so take he may take his leave and do not waste that boon in gold and favor your family bestowed upon me for that is most important to him now." And as the noblemen had left with folded outfit entrusted to his waiting outside servant, small man had risen in a whirl of motion that cast the cloth remained on his laps in separate sections upon the floor, then reached underneath for finger-slim enrolling that had slowly changed colours and thrown it up into the open ceiling window; some shady hand had grabbed it in flight and pouch with golden coins had dropped in his arms to be concealed as much as quickly.
 
Sandalphon - chaotic neutral?
In (A)D&D there are 2 outlines of this alighnment: old - 'madman lunatic' and new - warlike, deceptive, vengeful, changing (see deity portfolios from the link). None of these qualities are imo associated with Sandalphon, even sidar shadow abilities qualify as 'elusiveness' rather than 'deception'.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Deity#Deity_List
 
Sandalphon - chaotic neutral?
In (A)D&D there are 2 outlines of this alighnment: old - 'madman lunatic' and new - warlike, deceptive, vengeful, changing (see deity portfolios from the link). None of these qualities are imo associated with Sandalphon, even sidar shadow abilities qualify as 'elusiveness' rather than 'deception'.
http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Deity#Deity_List

That's true that in the D&D scale Sandalphon isn't really a chaotic neutral in that sense - he's definitely not a madman lunatic, like OO style. He's definitely neutral, but I think he could suit Neutral Neutral - most long term shades would be since they begin to lose their interest in the affairs of the world, I think? But then again he does make use of the undercouncil and assassins in the scenarios which are canon to FFH and you could argue that this underhand play and assassinations have chaotic influence since they destabilise other civs in order to keep the sidar's secrets safe.
I honestly think that he lies somewhere in between these two, he's obviously not nuts but he's not truely neutral that he's above intervention and using chaotic methods like the undercouncil.

I suppose that this view is skewed by the fact that i view the undercouncil as a corrupt and pretty chaotic organisation however.
 
That's true that in the D&D scale Sandalphon isn't really a chaotic neutral in that sense - he's definitely not a madman lunatic, like OO style.

The way I see alignment, Good-Neutral-Evil is about morals. Good leaders would want to feed the less fortunate. Evil leaders would want to feed the less fortunate to the wolves. Those who are Neutral don't really see these morals as important as helping their people thrive.

While morals for us are the same as for leaders in RiFE, their adherence to customs, codes and laws would be very different. This is where the Lawful-Neutral-Chaotic comes into play. Those who are Lawful would feel strongly about honoring defensive pacts, abiding by religious customs, listening to the words of the gods, and decisions of the Overcouncil (or Undercouncil.) The Chaotic would care little for the gods, councils or even strict social codes such as Aristocracy, all that matters are the results. Neutral lies somewhere in between.

While Good/Evil really is a +/- scale, I only see the Lawful/Chaotic scale as a positive value of Lawfulness. You can't really say that Chaotic is to want the destruction of laws, councils and the gods or it starts to blend too much with Evil.

This is how AD&D alignments worked back when I played the game. Or at least, how I remember it. I'm pretty sure I had a few Chaotic Neutral characters and I don't remember them being lunatics.
 
Oooohhhhh...:faint:...:eekdance:!
 
Alright, decided to post the background that has been developed for the D'tesh. If anyone feels like taking this and making some background infos, I'd be okay with it. ;)


D'tesh

  • D'tesh was originally an Amurite mage, and founder of the Mekara order, a secretive group of mages working towards one specific goal... Ascension, and godhood.
  • After an internal power struggle brought on by D'tesh being unwilling to share what power they had managed to gain, D'tesh left the order to continue his experiments on his own. The order itself was discovered by the Amurite government, and the mages were exiled.
  • D'tesh learned of the Opalus Mortalis (Gem of Death) and, after much searching, located it and gained control over it. Using this gem, he has gained powers that rival those of any god.
    • This is one of three gems that was stolen from Agares, and basically an infinite fount of power for that sphere; The others being Water and (I think) Wind. From everything I've read, he truly would be able to rival an individual God.... Can't be that powerful in game, however. Most of his power goes to controlling his thousands of minions.
  • D'tesh returned to the Amurites, converting entire cities to undead under his control. Those mages that joined him in the hopes of gaining some portion of his power for themselves were spared, to a degree; They become the initial mages under his control.
  • D'tesh retreats with his new minions to the desert, before the Amurites can rally... This is the founding of the D'teshi Empire.
  • At this point, he contacts/is contacted by Laroth, and a deal is agreed to... In return for funneling souls to Laroth, D'tesh gains a powerful boon; Thanatos and his fellow Dullahan.

Thanatos

  • Strongest of the Dullahan (Angels of Death) in service to Laroth, he is (for now) serving D'tesh.
  • Fiercely loyal to Laroth, dislikes D'tesh but does as he is ordered.

Vanedis

  • Former friend of D'tesh, first mage to abandon the Amurites and serve under him, leader of the cult that has grown up around him amongst the mages, and strongest mage within the strongest Council of Four (so strongest of the 16 council members).

Society

  • Composed (for the most part) of mindless undead, either under the direct control of D'tesh or controlled by a mage under his watchful eye.
  • The only exceptions are the Arcane units and the Recon units.
    • Arcane - Undead, but still sentient, and retaining their soul. D'tesh is able to exert control over them as he sees fit, but for the most part allows them to do as they will; They worship him, and their freewill is vital for the sake of spellcasting and leadership.
    • Recon - Undead, and no longer truly sentient. Soul has gone on to Laroth. They are about as intelligent as a smart dog... Able to go off on their own, scout, and exercise their own judgement to a limited degree without direct supervision by a mage. This means that they are drawn from only the freshest undead, those whose brains have not begun to decompose.
  • Other unitlines are mindless, and controlled utterly.
    • Melee - Whatever is left over from other unitlines ends up here.
    • Mounted - Slightly higher quality than the melee units, but not enough to be noticeable.
    • Archer - Higher quality corpses are used for these troops, as dexterity is required.
    • Disciple - These are the highest quality of all 'standard' unitlines, only the strongest, most durable bodies are used.
 
Cool story, bro!
I didn't know you acknowledged the Mekara order part. And did D'Tesh just go to the desert to sleep or what? I thought having him wreaking havoc throughout the neighboring empires was more interesting ;)
Spoiler :
That would mean, as far as my own ideas are concerned: the Jotnar, the Mechanos, the Doviello, the Scions, the Amurites. Would get help from Hippus mercenaries.
 
Cool story, bro!
I didn't know you acknowledged the Mekara order part. And did D'Tesh just go to the desert to sleep or what? I thought having him wreaking havoc throughout the neighboring empires was more interesting ;)
Spoiler :
That would mean, as far as my own ideas are concerned: the Jotnar, the Mechanos, the Doviello, the Scions, the Amurites. Would get help from Hippus mercenaries.

Yes, the order part adds some good backstory for D'tesh, his reasons for finding the Opalus Mortalis.

No, he did not go to the desert to 'sleep'. :p I just stopped there because that is where the game itself begins... In the desert, with the initial population from the Amurite Empire. To then wreak havoc on neighboring empires.

For civilizations, I tend to try to get them to the point where you can see the game starts; Explain WHY flavorstart puts them where it does. After that, I don't specify it. Let the player develop their own lore from that point.
 
Yes, the order part adds some good backstory for D'tesh, his reasons for finding the Opalus Mortalis.

No, he did not go to the desert to 'sleep'. :p I just stopped there because that is where the game itself begins... In the desert, with the initial population from the Amurite Empire. To then wreak havoc on neighboring empires.

For civilizations, I tend to try to get them to the point where you can see the game starts; Explain WHY flavorstart puts them where it does. After that, I don't specify it. Let the player develop their own lore from that point.
Good explanation :)
 
In addition to the nations Opera mentioned, aren't the Sidar also aware of D'Tesh? I can't imagine they would take kindly to necromancy.

Spoiler :

VOHU MANAH
Civilisation: Sidar
Author: KillerClowns

Mel'ash smelled them before he saw them. The living. But not Austrin. No, no, not Austrin at all. Austrin stank, dirtier than many animals. They stank of toil, of work, of the wilds. But these living... yes, they definitely smelled human. But what sort of human? There were workers and laborers, but they smelled cleaner than any Austrin could hope to. And there were other smells... perfumes, like those the Scions of the false Patria held so dear. But different sorts of perfumes. Foreign perfumes, from somewhere beyond the world known to D'tesh and his Legion.

So Mel'ash went forward, driven by a mixture of curiosity and greed. He's be rewarded well for bringing D'tesh a new supply of slaves. Soft, he reckoned they were from the smell. But they could be made useful in time. When he gazed out towards the newcomers, however, his confidence faltered. They were armed, yes, and armored. Leading them was a woman, a woman who smelled like mist. They were pale, as though dead, but they still smelled living. Slaves they would be. But those weapons... arms and armor Mel'ash had never seen before, in the hands of his kin or the Scions. They were dangerous, so very dangerous... perhaps, Mel'ash thought, he should speak with them. Deception and trickery, after all, where just as good as slaughter, though not half as fun. And Mel'ash could be mistaken for living, well enough anyways.

Mel'ash muttered a spell, to grant him the power of tongues. He then slipped out from his hiding place, approaching the foreigners. He was immediately surrounded by the pale men. Their swords, he noticed, were elegant, nothing like D'tesh's own glorified meat cleavers. An aesthetic people. They had also been placed at his throat, even though he'd been alone a second ago. "Come," said one of the pale ones. "Vohu will see you." "Who is this... Vohu?" Mel'ash asked. His captor responded, "Vohu Manah is the leader of the Sidar Expeditionary Force." The woman who smelled of mist approached. Mal'ash assumed that she was Vohu.

Vohu said, "Explain yourself. Who are you, and who do you serve?" "I am Mel'ash, servant of D'tesh, the eternal lord of this world. We are... willing to live in peace with your people, so long as we come to the... proper... understandings." "Who is this D'tesh?" "Why, he is the greatest of all wizards, a man who, since the Age of Magic, has been granting eternal life to those... powerful enough, to take it." Vohu examined Mel'ash. "Eternal life? No, I think your D'tesh offers only undeath. We cannot tolerate such abominations. We will cleanse your kind. Guards, dispose of this corpse!" The Sidar obeyed, rending Mel'ash before he even knew what was happening.


Another note lists him as "the King of Plagues"... does this still hold?

Spoiler :

LORD D’TESH
Author: Mailbox

“All praise be to D'Tesh, Lord of all necromancy. May the king of plagues decimate all life.” -- Caputred D'Teshi mage, minutes before execution.


Also, what, if anything is the D'Teshi policy on Barbatos? Seek him out as a source of power or try and eliminate him as a potential rival. I can't imagine he is very popular with the Scions either.
 
In addition to the nations Opera mentioned, aren't the Sidar also aware of D'Tesh? I can't imagine they would take kindly to necromancy.

Another note lists him as "the King of Plagues"... does this still hold?

Also, what, if anything is the D'Teshi policy on Barbatos? Seek him out as a source of power or try and eliminate him as a potential rival. I can't imagine he is very popular with the Scions either.

I'm sure the Sidar know of him, though I'm not sure he knows of them. Not up to the point I plan to take it to; Like I said, I want to get their lore up to the point where the game would start.

Hadn't remembered the "King of Plagues" part, but no. There is absolutely no mechanic used by the D'tesh that could be attributed to that.

I'm not sure about Barbatos. I know D'tesh himself is stronger, as he controls the Opalus Mortalis. It's not terribly important though, seeing as he's not in the game. :p

Also... Said this in the D'tesh thread, but I've officially changed the name. It's D'tesh, not D'Tesh. :p
 
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