JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Two years longer Taiping, one year earlier Boxers, and China is basically as unstable as rl. Different Asia? You mean Japan wont rise to regional dominance as China falls to factionalism?
Art of the Possible: Backgrounds
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
I have every confidence that all of you players will make sure things are not identical to real life, beyond that I'm not willing to comment further.
Blaze Injun
Night Radio KYSE
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2005
- Messages
- 4,918
Hey,
I also have to agree with the rest of the Far East. Korea seems to me right were they stood in RL. Under Japanese influence? More like under Japan's thumb and ready to be annexed all over again. If my early question of Korea's background caused you to rush the Far East backgrounds, sorry.
EDIT: No reply expected.
Blaze Injun
I also have to agree with the rest of the Far East. Korea seems to me right were they stood in RL. Under Japanese influence? More like under Japan's thumb and ready to be annexed all over again. If my early question of Korea's background caused you to rush the Far East backgrounds, sorry.
EDIT: No reply expected.
Blaze Injun
There's virtue in subtlety. [Buddhist saying I just made up.]
Jokes aside, the good side of having a more subtle diversion is that the players can make assumptions about their countries based on OTL. Otherwise, the only thing you know about your country is the stats and a couple of paragraphs of background.
Maybe one day I'll make a game based on alternate timeline in which the Maccabean Revolt failed, Hellenization of Judea continued, and so Judaism, Christianity, and Islam never really grew to be anything but regional minority sects, with Zoroastrianism and other Eastern religions being dominant in a much more different Irano-Greeko-centric world that experienced its Renaissance much earlier. Imagine the 13th century with steam dromons, land "Greek fire" throwers, rocket artillery, and many other technologies that didn't become big in our timeline until much later. I've been toying with the idea for many years, and hopefully will some day will have time to work on it.
Jokes aside, the good side of having a more subtle diversion is that the players can make assumptions about their countries based on OTL. Otherwise, the only thing you know about your country is the stats and a couple of paragraphs of background.
Maybe one day I'll make a game based on alternate timeline in which the Maccabean Revolt failed, Hellenization of Judea continued, and so Judaism, Christianity, and Islam never really grew to be anything but regional minority sects, with Zoroastrianism and other Eastern religions being dominant in a much more different Irano-Greeko-centric world that experienced its Renaissance much earlier. Imagine the 13th century with steam dromons, land "Greek fire" throwers, rocket artillery, and many other technologies that didn't become big in our timeline until much later. I've been toying with the idea for many years, and hopefully will some day will have time to work on it.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Dark middle ages are a thing, you know.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,062
The issue is eurocentrism. Why do the white devils get all the interesting timeline changes, while Asia has the French East Indies instead of the Dutch East Indies?
Because the POD is where the white devils are, not the Asians. Also, eurocentrism best centrism. That said, I will happily accept suggestions on any changes to be made in the Far East, but reserve the right to not implement any of the suggestions. As stated earlier, my feelings are that similar start to OTL aside, the world as a whole will likely dictate some very different outcomes. As Ahigin stated, I usually prefer players to fill in the little details that broad backgrounds and stats just don't cover.
In the meantime, here is the Army Doctrines post with all the information and starting doctrines for your viewing pleasure.
Army Doctrines
All army doctrine stats are measured on a scale of 0 to 5. Each type of stat has an effect relevant to your forces and how they perform and maintain in combat. All stats are completely unlocked an open from Update 0, and you can select them at any level when creating a new doctrine. There is no limit or restriction on the amount of points you place into each stat, beyond what it will cost to maintain and build your units. The cost for creating a new doctrine is 100 EP + 1 EP per every division you have. IC cannot be used to create a new doctrine. On the other side of that, adopting a new doctrine from one created by another nation is completely free, assuming you have the original nations permission to adopt their doctrine. Costs for divisions, both in purchasing and supply are affected by the doctrine you possess. Divisions can be produced by one nation and traded to another, representing arms training and support, assuming that both nations share the same Doctrine. Lastly, as the game progresses, some types of divisions can only be purchased if you have a doctrine which has a certain level of stats.
Mobilization
Peacetime: All units are full cost
Partial Mobilization: All units are 50% discounted in purchase costs. (Rounded Down)
Full Mobilization: All units are 75% discounted in purchase costs. (Rounded Down)
Doctrine Stats
Fire Support: The emphasis your doctrine places upon the use of artillery and the amount of artillery in your unit. It provides additional firepower to your unit allowing them to attack harder targets with more success. Each point of Fire Support causes your units to cost an additional 1 EP to build. NOTE: having 0 in Fire Support does not mean that you have no artillery, just that you have very little and ineffective artillery.
Logistical Support: The emphasis your doctrine places upon logistical/hospital management and support for your units. This stat affects how well you are able to maintain longer and longer supply lines. Each point of Logistical Support will cause your units to consume an additional 1 supply each turn.
Specialization: This emphasizes the amount of specialized units and equipment that each of your divisions possesses. These include things like engineering brigades and other items and units that assist in specific scenarios. Each point of Specialization will increase the supply and fuel costs of your units by 1 each per turn.
Motorization: The amount of trucks and other vehicles used to move your divisions across the map. Each point of motorization causes your units to consume 1 extra unit of fuel each turn and an additional 1 EP to build.
Training: The training stat affects how much training your new divisions receive before they are considered to be combat ready. The higher your training stat the better your forces will perform in battle. Each point of Training will increase the cost of creating new divisions by 1 EP.
Extreme Weather Support: This stat affects how well your forces perform in extreme cold or hot climates, and they will fight better in more hostile environments. Each point of Extreme Weather Support causes your units to consume an additional 1 supply each turn.
Technology: This stat affects how integrated modern technologies and relevant training are into your units. This can mean all sorts of things from year to year, but staying on top of the latest innovations is a very expensive and difficult task. Your technology stat alone is not decisive and mostly just covers support technologies for units, such as small arms or medicine. Each point in Technology adds 1 IC to the cost of your units, and all units consume and additional 1 Supply each turn.
Centralization: This stat affects how much direct control and loyalty your central government has over the army. The lower your centralization, the more loyalty your soldiers have to their leaders than to the nation, but the more likely they are to take effective independent action if cut off. The higher your centralization, the more loyalty your government commands, but they also will be less effective when cut off from central command.
Policing: This stat is a sliding scale between highly effective occupation tactics (5) and brutal repression of the occupied territories (0). A higher policing rating reflects a occupation designed to win hearts and minds, while a lower one involves shooting partisans and cracking down on the slightest dissent. Both ends of the spectrum have their own benefits and detractions, related to the region or area you are invading or occupying.
Available Doctrines
Spoiler :
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Personally, as the player playing China, I am ok with China as it is. And do not worry, China will not collapse, at least that's what I am hoping to prevent.
Blaze Injun
Night Radio KYSE
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2005
- Messages
- 4,918
Hey,
As for Korea I'll try to live a few turns. Not really looking forward to
That said is any RL event that may have happened before 1900 allowed in this? For examples: The Hanseong Electric Company (1898), Seoul Fresh Spring Water Company, electric street cars and the use of local telephones (1896).
Thanks,
Blaze Injun
As for Korea I'll try to live a few turns. Not really looking forward to
That said is any RL event that may have happened before 1900 allowed in this? For examples: The Hanseong Electric Company (1898), Seoul Fresh Spring Water Company, electric street cars and the use of local telephones (1896).
Thanks,
Blaze Injun
Et_Absoluti
First Citizen
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2014
- Messages
- 388
Can Doctrines be upgraded?
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,062
Suggestions:
Spoiler :
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
There were other significant rebellions in China in the decades between the Taiping and the Boxers too, you know.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,062
Yeah, but those are the only two that affected white people. I don't know the others off the topportunity of my head.
@Blaze Injun: As long as nothing you come up with directly conflicts with the existing background and map, you can add as many different events that has happened as you would like.
@Et_absoluti: As stated in the post, a new doctrine can be created at any point in time for 100 EP +1 EP per unit. Alternatively, you can adopt any other nation's doctrine for free, assuming you have their permission.
@Shadowbound:
1. Actually this makes a lot more sense considering the points of divergence. Vietnam, under Nguyễn Ánh, sounds like it could have easily gone the same route as Siam. I will revise the backgrounds and map to include an independent Vietnam, particularly considering that French colonial interests in the region would likely have remained focused on reclaiming and consolidating the former Dutch East Indies.
2. No, I believe that British naval superiority and existing colonies would have prevented a division of Australia in this timeline.
3. I don't believe that France would have had the resources to dedicate to greater involvement in the Boshin War, considering other activities they have going on at this time in the background, plus the interests of the former Dutch East Indies. Including the increased ethnic and political unrest in Europe beyond this point, I think the French army may have had its hands full and not provided more than they did OTL, perhaps even less.
4. As mentioned in the Russian background, Russia is a complete mess and has been more or less since the Napoleonic Wars. Between conflicts with Poland and Russia in the late 1870s and 1880s, I do not believe Russia would have had more success in the Far East, and if anything I was rather uncomfortable giving them what they do have out there.
EDIT: @Sonereal: Yes, you may definitely be Brazil.
Once again, for everyone else, I now include the Navy Doctrines post. This includes unit costs and the two existing doctrines at the start of the game.
Navy doctrines are significantly less sophisticated than those of the armies, in terms of game mechanics. They do not affect price or supply costs of your units, but rather reflect the sorts of operations they could be the most effective at. All doctrines operate on a sliding scale of 0 to 5, with 0 being the “left” end of the scale and 5 being the “right” end of the scale. Your doctrine should be tailored towards the areas or types of operations that you would like your naval officers to be best trained for, and will affect their performance. As an example, you would not want to send a coast guard emphasized fleet out to wage war on the open ocean, as they would be at their least effective status in such a scenario. To develop a new doctrine it will cost 100 EP + 1 EP for every naval unit your fleet possesses. You may adopt another nation’s naval doctrine (or one of the generic doctrines) for free, assuming you have the relevant nation’s permission. As unit costs are not dependent upon doctrine, you can see the prices for all naval units below. Ships can be traded between any nation, regardless of existing doctrine.
Naval Unit Costs
Destroyer Squadron: A task force of smaller light warships typically best at escort and coastal patrol operations. Costs 2 IC to build. Requires 3 Supplies and 1 Fuel per turn to maintain
Cruiser Squadron: A task force of cruisers that act as a balance between capital ships for combat and destroyers for escorts. Costs 4 IC to build. Requires 6 Supplies and 2 Fuel per turn to maintain
Capital Ship: A dreadnought, battleship or whatever you would like to call them. These kings of the sea are the most effective at ship to ship combat and are the pride of the navies of 1900. Expensive to build and operate, they are still the most effective weapons for fighting on the high seas. Costs 8 IC to build. Requires 10 Supplies and 3 Fuel per turn to maintain.
Doctrine Stats
Interdiction/Escort: A low rating in this field indicates emphasis on intercepting merchant shipping and commerce, while a high rating in this field indicates emphasis on protecting merchant shipping.
Coastal Defense/High Seas Operation: A low rating in this field indicates emphasis on protection of coastlines, while a high rating in this field indicates emphasis on operating in open oceans.
Independent Command/Centralized Command: A low rating in this field indicates that each vessel’s captain is an independent operator, capable of making strategic decisions. A high rating in this field indicates that any action by a naval vessel must be approved of by high command.
Army Support/Independent Branch of Service: A low rating in this field indicates that the navy exists solely to support the army. A high rating in this field indicates that the navy is ferociously independent of any other branch of service.
High Rate of Fire/Highly Accurate Fire: A low rating in this field means that the fleet emphasizes putting a lot of lead in the air. A high rating in this field means that the fleet emphasizes accurate and well-aimed shots as opposed to a large number of shots.
@Et_absoluti: As stated in the post, a new doctrine can be created at any point in time for 100 EP +1 EP per unit. Alternatively, you can adopt any other nation's doctrine for free, assuming you have their permission.
@Shadowbound:
1. Actually this makes a lot more sense considering the points of divergence. Vietnam, under Nguyễn Ánh, sounds like it could have easily gone the same route as Siam. I will revise the backgrounds and map to include an independent Vietnam, particularly considering that French colonial interests in the region would likely have remained focused on reclaiming and consolidating the former Dutch East Indies.
2. No, I believe that British naval superiority and existing colonies would have prevented a division of Australia in this timeline.
3. I don't believe that France would have had the resources to dedicate to greater involvement in the Boshin War, considering other activities they have going on at this time in the background, plus the interests of the former Dutch East Indies. Including the increased ethnic and political unrest in Europe beyond this point, I think the French army may have had its hands full and not provided more than they did OTL, perhaps even less.
4. As mentioned in the Russian background, Russia is a complete mess and has been more or less since the Napoleonic Wars. Between conflicts with Poland and Russia in the late 1870s and 1880s, I do not believe Russia would have had more success in the Far East, and if anything I was rather uncomfortable giving them what they do have out there.
EDIT: @Sonereal: Yes, you may definitely be Brazil.
Once again, for everyone else, I now include the Navy Doctrines post. This includes unit costs and the two existing doctrines at the start of the game.
Navy Units and Doctrines
Navy doctrines are significantly less sophisticated than those of the armies, in terms of game mechanics. They do not affect price or supply costs of your units, but rather reflect the sorts of operations they could be the most effective at. All doctrines operate on a sliding scale of 0 to 5, with 0 being the “left” end of the scale and 5 being the “right” end of the scale. Your doctrine should be tailored towards the areas or types of operations that you would like your naval officers to be best trained for, and will affect their performance. As an example, you would not want to send a coast guard emphasized fleet out to wage war on the open ocean, as they would be at their least effective status in such a scenario. To develop a new doctrine it will cost 100 EP + 1 EP for every naval unit your fleet possesses. You may adopt another nation’s naval doctrine (or one of the generic doctrines) for free, assuming you have the relevant nation’s permission. As unit costs are not dependent upon doctrine, you can see the prices for all naval units below. Ships can be traded between any nation, regardless of existing doctrine.
Naval Unit Costs
Destroyer Squadron: A task force of smaller light warships typically best at escort and coastal patrol operations. Costs 2 IC to build. Requires 3 Supplies and 1 Fuel per turn to maintain
Cruiser Squadron: A task force of cruisers that act as a balance between capital ships for combat and destroyers for escorts. Costs 4 IC to build. Requires 6 Supplies and 2 Fuel per turn to maintain
Capital Ship: A dreadnought, battleship or whatever you would like to call them. These kings of the sea are the most effective at ship to ship combat and are the pride of the navies of 1900. Expensive to build and operate, they are still the most effective weapons for fighting on the high seas. Costs 8 IC to build. Requires 10 Supplies and 3 Fuel per turn to maintain.
Doctrine Stats
Interdiction/Escort: A low rating in this field indicates emphasis on intercepting merchant shipping and commerce, while a high rating in this field indicates emphasis on protecting merchant shipping.
Coastal Defense/High Seas Operation: A low rating in this field indicates emphasis on protection of coastlines, while a high rating in this field indicates emphasis on operating in open oceans.
Independent Command/Centralized Command: A low rating in this field indicates that each vessel’s captain is an independent operator, capable of making strategic decisions. A high rating in this field indicates that any action by a naval vessel must be approved of by high command.
Army Support/Independent Branch of Service: A low rating in this field indicates that the navy exists solely to support the army. A high rating in this field indicates that the navy is ferociously independent of any other branch of service.
High Rate of Fire/Highly Accurate Fire: A low rating in this field means that the fleet emphasizes putting a lot of lead in the air. A high rating in this field means that the fleet emphasizes accurate and well-aimed shots as opposed to a large number of shots.
Available Doctrines
Spoiler :
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2008
- Messages
- 14,926
I think that adopting an existing doctrine should require the original nation's permission plus 1 EP per division. This would make it more expensive for a massive army to change doctrines on the fly. I feel the same way about naval doctrines as well.
Edit: Creating a new doctrine could be 100 + 2x to compensate.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,062
Yeah, otherwise everyone will be outsourcing doctrines to Ecuador.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
More suggestions, if you're willing to take them.
-What you have written about Afghanistan seems to imply that the British have a fair bit less influence over the peripheries of the Raj. With this in mind I would suggest carving out (Upper) Burma as a backwater but still-independent state hurriedly trying to modernise as best they can. This area did not come under British domination until 1886 OTL so it's not too much of a stretch to have them still around 1900 in this scenario.
-In India itself I can only imagine the British attempting to squeeze even more out of the subcontinent as it can. It is pretty firmly sealed off from French influence for now, but pro-independence movements may very likely look to France for support.
-Make Aceh British. Assuming the French got Indonesia in the early 19th, and if the British are actively trying to counter French influence in the area then Aceh, which wasn't brought under Dutch control OTL until after 1870 anyway, is a fairly obvious place to start. I'm sure there are other places in Indonesia archipelago that could also be British but off the top of my head I don't know what those are.
-What you have written about Afghanistan seems to imply that the British have a fair bit less influence over the peripheries of the Raj. With this in mind I would suggest carving out (Upper) Burma as a backwater but still-independent state hurriedly trying to modernise as best they can. This area did not come under British domination until 1886 OTL so it's not too much of a stretch to have them still around 1900 in this scenario.
-In India itself I can only imagine the British attempting to squeeze even more out of the subcontinent as it can. It is pretty firmly sealed off from French influence for now, but pro-independence movements may very likely look to France for support.
-Make Aceh British. Assuming the French got Indonesia in the early 19th, and if the British are actively trying to counter French influence in the area then Aceh, which wasn't brought under Dutch control OTL until after 1870 anyway, is a fairly obvious place to start. I'm sure there are other places in Indonesia archipelago that could also be British but off the top of my head I don't know what those are.
As usual, Russian hordes are second worst quality in the world, surpassed only by Qing. Not that I expected otherwise...
BTW, a question. If a country chooses to build a land unit to trade to another country, does it get subtracted from the manpower pool of the "customer" country or the "trainer" country?
BTW, a question. If a country chooses to build a land unit to trade to another country, does it get subtracted from the manpower pool of the "customer" country or the "trainer" country?
