Ask a Mormon, Part 3

[Eran of Arcadia]

Actually, I think a case can be made that Catholics are polytheistic as well - they pray to multiple entities, and speak of more than one being who grants them salvation. At least some Catholics do.

 

[Chazumi]

If you are talking about the holy trinity then yes, I beleive it's called soft polytheism. But IIRC the catholic church is very outspoken that besides god, the other two are just powerful entities, that are in no way gods.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I am referring to Mary and the Saints - the Catholic Church will never call them gods, but in practical terms they serve a role not entirely unlike the role of gods in many openly polytheistic religions.

 

[zxcvbnm]

I am referring to Mary and the Saints - the Catholic Church will never call them gods, but in practical terms they serve a role not entirely unlike the role of gods in many openly polytheistic religions.

If I wrote about the Roman Catholic Church without mentioning the exact names one would think it's about some native culture

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

If I wrote about the Roman Catholic Church without mentioning the exact names one would think it's about some native culture

Well, in many cases it is - Catholicism is by far the Christian religion with the greatest degree of sycretism. And this isn't even really a criticism - if they want to pray to saints, more power to them. I mean, I think it is wrong, but that's a religious issue.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Well, one could say that it has just adapted a bit to the local cultures, instead of completely forcing an outside influence (what an irony actually)

 

[holy king]

Actually, I think a case can be made that Catholics are polytheistic as well - they pray to multiple entities, and speak of more than one being who grants them salvation. At least some Catholics do.

isnt that trinity thing explicitly about one god in different forms?
the holy spirit is more like pallas athenae warning odysseus in the form of an old man than a seperate entity, as i understand it...

edit: of course saints, especially the mary cult, are just follow ups of polytheistic deities.
but in the catholic theology's inner logic those are no gods. would be a bad idea to contradict one's own ten commandments allready in theory.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, one could say that it has just adapted a bit to the local cultures, instead of completely forcing an outside influence (what an irony actually)

Of course, by and large that adaptation came from the converted natives themselves, not the hierarchy of the Church. But it is an interesting study in sociology and religion.

isnt that trinity thing explicitly about one god in different forms?

Like I said, I was referring to saints, not the Trinity. Although, some Jews and Muslims do think the Trinity is itself polytheistic (not sure I agree or not, depends on how you define the Trinity).

 

[zxcvbnm]

Let's say that the local converted natives managed to keep parts of their own culture in the pressure of the R.C church, a feat many cultures should try to imitate these days.

 

[Angst]

If you are talking about the holy trinity then yes, I beleive it's called soft polytheism. But IIRC the catholic church is very outspoken that besides god, the other two are just powerful entities, that are in no way gods.

The trinity should be three thirds of God.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I think it depends on whom you ask.

 

[Angst]

I think it depends on whom you ask.

Of course. I'm a Protestant, so I cannot speak for them Cats down south - but I can assure you that every single priest in my area speaks of the three of them as one God.

 

[Elrohir]

Any of you seen the HBO tv show Big Love? I'd be surprised if any of you have, but I thought I'd ask.

I am referring to Mary and the Saints - the Catholic Church will never call them gods, but in practical terms they serve a role not entirely unlike the role of gods in many openly polytheistic religions.

I dunno. I don't think most Catholics "pray" to the saints or Mary in quite the same way that they pray to God. Pray, afterall, does have slightly different meanings based on different contexts, and it's necessarily idolatrous if directly at a mortal. You can "pray" to someone, or ask for their help or guidance, without worshiping them as divine.

 

[Pessimus Dux]

I dunno. I don't think most Catholics "pray" to the saints or Mary in quite the same way that they pray to God. Pray, afterall, does have slightly different meanings based on different contexts, and it's necessarily idolatrous if directly at a mortal. You can "pray" to someone, or ask for their help or guidance, without worshiping them as divine.

In most cases, it is like you said. However, there were discussions among clergy about this issue; they agree that sometimes people still have a habit of to pray to a saint or Mary rather than God Himself, almost like they "don't want to bother the God". From a religious point (or Christian, to be more precise) of view it is OK until a "thin line" between praying to someone who is close to the God AND praying to someone who has powers of its own but in a smaller way than the God is not passed. That's the main difference between monotheistic and polytheistic way of thinking/praying.

As for the Trinity, there is no doubt for Christians that Trinity is only one God.
However, unlike the Jews or Muslims, Christianity have a more complex definition of Him, but it doesn't make the God a three entities, only a three forms of Him.

[Eran of Arcadia] Thanks for answer. Another question would be: despite the opinions of others, what do you as a Mormon think, are you a polytheist or monotheist? How the Mormons define a nature of their believing?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I define myself as a monotheist because I worship only one God (in the name of Christ), even though I believe that there are other entities that may be called "gods".

But I really don't get too bent out of shape if other people call this polytheism.

 

[Nylan]

Semantics, semantics, semantics.

 

[zxcvbnm]

Every system leads eventually to aristocracy...

Every religion leads eventually to polytheism...

 

[Pessimus Dux]

I define myself as a monotheist because I worship only one God (in the name of Christ), even though I believe that there are other entities that may be called "gods".

But I really don't get too bent out of shape if other people call this polytheism.

Well, I admit that this sort of "monothesim" is a very stretched one.. Although, technically, it can exist. If the God is almighty, it can make other being a god, although that god is also almighty in some way, but in other still subjugated to the God... (uh, what a "Gordium Knot"...)
Well, anyway, does the Mormonism recognizes some particular person as "a god" or it exists only in theory (for now)?

[zxcvbnm]: "Every religion leads eventually to polytheism..."
Judaism, Islam? You can debate about "polytheism in Christianity" (although I never met a Christian who equalizes St. Mary or saints with the God), but both Jews and Muslims have STRICTLY one God. Islam even preaches about "oneness" of the God.

 

[demokratickid]

Every system leads eventually to aristocracy...

Every religion leads eventually to polytheism...

and...

Every Phily Cheese Steak eventually leads to heartburn...

Seriously though,

@ Pessimus Dex- The God of the Christians, Jews, and Muslims was never intended to be a single God, so you are correct. Theirs a book about it called A History of God by Karen Armstrong. Read it, it's good.

 

[Red Door]

Actually, I think a case can be made that Catholics are polytheistic as well - they pray to multiple entities, and speak of more than one being who grants them salvation. At least some Catholics do.

Through, not to.