Ask A Protestant Christian II
- Thread starter timtofly
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What about those who haven't read them?
timtofly
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I will let him answer, but that seems to me, his comfort zone. If they cannot read, he better teach them quickly or else they may not be that comfortable to live with.
Why do you distinguish them separately, and give priority to one over the other?
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Romans 2:
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
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I just remembered that the epistles do reiterate the commandment to "Honor your father and mother." It may we worth noting though that while the epistles interpret this to mean that children need to obey their parents, Christ himself never uses the commandment in that way.
The only time when He invoked it he was not saying that children need to be obedient, but that adults need to provide for their those who took care of them as children once they have grown to elderly to take care of themselves. The promise "so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you" part may simply be saying that you need to support your elderly parents so that when you are elderly you will have the support you need in order to live long. This seems to be about reciprocity.
Christ himself explicitly stated that the former is the greatest commandment, and the later is the second. They are however very closely connected. "Second" could be taken to mean "following" in the sense that would make it merely a corollary. Note that 1 John 4 explains that is is impossible to keep the first without the second. Hating anyone prevents you from properly loving God.
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
----
I just remembered that the epistles do reiterate the commandment to "Honor your father and mother." It may we worth noting though that while the epistles interpret this to mean that children need to obey their parents, Christ himself never uses the commandment in that way.
The only time when He invoked it he was not saying that children need to be obedient, but that adults need to provide for their those who took care of them as children once they have grown to elderly to take care of themselves. The promise "so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you" part may simply be saying that you need to support your elderly parents so that when you are elderly you will have the support you need in order to live long. This seems to be about reciprocity.
Christ himself explicitly stated that the former is the greatest commandment, and the later is the second. They are however very closely connected. "Second" could be taken to mean "following" in the sense that would make it merely a corollary. Note that 1 John 4 explains that is is impossible to keep the first without the second. Hating anyone prevents you from properly loving God.
Ah, my Bible didn't say "greatest", it just says "great". So, it was the first great commandment and so the second (like it) would be the second great commandment.
I've never thought to think that one was greater than the other.
I've never thought to think that one was greater than the other.
timtofly
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Jesus pointed out, that it is easy to get along with others, who we can see. If one can live by the first command out of faith, it will be much easier to apply the second one. Humans seldom agree on anything and coming to any agreement may seem hard, but it is much easier than agreeing with God, Whom no man can see.
kochman
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God's rules are written in everyone's heart.
Now, regarding idols... that's questionable... I would guess they could get a pass, but I don't (can't) know for sure.
Why the 10 Commandments, and how do you know?
That's the essence of my question. How do protestants distinguish which of those rules are important?
kochman
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You know what is right inside yourself...
It generally boils down to the Golden Rule.
That's fantastic, but do the polygamists (adultery), communists (coveting) and Aztec priests (killing) also get the same free pass? How about the kleptomaniacs?
kochman
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You'd have to ask the big man... but I think that clear violations (killing) are pretty obvious no-nos...
timtofly
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Actually pre noah and mosaic law, God let Cain get away with slaying his brother. I do not advocate it, but when you are only required to live by grace, any wrong decision is equal in God's eyes. Societies come together in peaceful agreement on a set amount of laws. When these laws are no longer in vogue, then wars happen until humans can agree on another set of laws. That is man to man.
God offers every one grace on their own terms, and even allows men to form their own societies. But God does not have an organized set of laws that man must live by in this age period. People know what is right and wrong i.e. morals, because they have a soul and the truth is "written on one's heart". But unless men agree to lay aside their own opinions and establish a set of laws that they can agree on then no societies will prosper for long. Change and anarchy are inevitable.
God offers every one grace on their own terms, and even allows men to form their own societies. But God does not have an organized set of laws that man must live by in this age period. People know what is right and wrong i.e. morals, because they have a soul and the truth is "written on one's heart". But unless men agree to lay aside their own opinions and establish a set of laws that they can agree on then no societies will prosper for long. Change and anarchy are inevitable.
To us, yes, but my point is that those Aztec priests genuinely thought that what they were doing was holy. Furthermore, if you asked a devout Muslim he would probably tell you that it was 'obvious' that women should cover their heads in public, or a Haredi - is that the right one? - Jew would tell you it was 'obvious' that men should wear beards. It's not the case that everyone has Christian morality inbuilt and if they follow any other code of morals they 'know' that they're deviating from it.
kochman
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I honestly don't believe the Aztec priests thought what they were doing was right. At some point, they had to have doubt... they just chose to ignore it.
The rules are written in the heart, but easily ignored.
The other examples you give are hardly worth the effort to engrave in the soul... those are clearly manmade ideas that God would (probably) care less about.
kochman
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I don't think "Do Unto Others" is only specific to J-C morals... so, I disagree with the premiss of your question.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
They are basically two sides of one coin. If you love God with you whole being, then it should be natural for you to be loving your neighbour.
kochman
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Most of the 10 Commandments fall under "Do Unto Others", really.
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