Ask a Protestant Christian

[timtofly]

But your body goes to heaven, right?

The body returns to dust.

What's the difference between soul and spirit?

The soul is God working in us to tranform the spirit into God's perfection. IMO they are united in death. Those who choose life will live on in perfection. Those who choose their own way into eternal seperation from God. Now at the end there is the Lake of Fire which is called the second death and it will either be eternal or final. By God's mercy it will be final, but no one knows.

Do Aspies get cured in heaven?

Heaven is perfection.

But your body goes to heaven, right?

No, later when Christ returns we will receive a new body.

What's the difference between soul and spirit?

The soul is God, the spirit is you.

In heaven, are you able do the unselfish thing and trade places with a loved one suffering in hell?

No, once you are dead, you cannot go from heaven to hell or from hell to heaven.

As a religious Protestant myself, I'm curious to know whether you guys believe aborted fetuses get to go to heaven. I've had some heated debates with some of my fellow churchgoers over this hot button topic.

If you take the position that God breathes into you a soul upon your first breath, then no. If you believe that God has compassion and allows that spirit into heaven then yes. We are not supposed to take life into our own hands, thus thwarting the Will of God.

So the soul is some function in my mind?

How can our "our ability to choose righteousness" be "made sin"?

No, the mind is your ability to reason in choosing God's will via the soul, or your own spirit which is you. Jesus was the payment for our sin, therefore we are under grace. Doing righteousness is our ability to do God's will. However we do not get to Heaven by doing good our bad, but accepting that Jesus is our substitute for what God demanded as the penalty for sin.

Cool. So here's part 2.

Do parents get to hang out with their aborted fetuses in heaven?

If they so choose to.

So we are supposed to aspire to be more Christlike, but are forbidden taking action that would be Christlike?

God did not allow Moses to go to Hell for the nation of Israel, nor did He allow Paul to do so. Not that it is a reasonable thing to do, but God is not willing that any should perish. We as humans believe it is noble to give ones life for another. We forget though that God gave Himself for that purpose. Each individual has their own purpose in life and switching places for salvation is not one of them.

 

[Perfection]

Heaven is perfection.

That's what she said.

No, later when Christ returns we will receive a new body.

How does it compare to my old one?

The soul is God, the spirit is you.

So parts of God go to hell?

No, once you are dead, you cannot go from heaven to hell or from hell to heaven.

Why not? Also, are there places that are neither hell nor heaven nor the universe?

No, the mind is your ability to reason in choosing God's will via the soul, or your own spirit which is you. Jesus was the payment for our sin, therefore we are under grace. Doing righteousness is our ability to do God's will. However we do not get to Heaven by doing good our bad,

So I'm still confused about this soul thing, if the soul is God, then would I not have one? Or is it a piece of God or whatever? Earlier you said it was an ability. I dunno, just doesn't make much sense.

but accepting that Jesus is our substitute for what God demanded as the penalty for sin.

Do I have to accept this while I am still alive or can I accept after death?

 

[timtofly]

That's what she said.

How does it compare to my old one?

So parts of God go to hell?

Why not? Also, are there places that are neither hell nor heaven nor the universe?

So I'm still confused about this soul thing, if the soul is God, then would I not have one? Or is it a piece of God or whatever? Earlier you said it was an ability. I dunno, just doesn't make much sense.

Do I have to accept this while I am still alive or can I accept after death?

He said, she said. but Seriously. The soul is your gift from God. If you so choose to damn it, then it looses it's Godness and you no longer possess it. At that point you are reprobate and your name is taken out of the Book of life. Your body is here, but I would say you are souless, and no longer able to do God's will. That is a reason that God hardens the heart. By His mercy, He is allowing you another chance to get it right. There does come a point though that one cannot get ones soul back because the spirit is so bent on not doing God's will that it is impossible. If the spirit does not accept the salvation that God willed in Jesus, then after death there is no longer an opportunity to change. Life here on earth is the place we make that choice.

To make sense: God is pure light. Upon your birth there is a spark of light within you. Through your experiences you gain knowledge. The light gets brighter. Let's say that the Bible is Wisdom and by reading it, the light within you gets even brighter. Now you choose to do your own thing and the light starts to fade. Letting God work in you, causes the light to get brighter. The devil does not like the light in you and he will do everything to put it out. Your choice is light or darkness. If all the light is gone, you are souless, and no longer have the ability to get it back.

Even the smallest amount of morality that we do shows that we have light in us. But it is not the light that gets us into heaven. It is allowing the Light of the World, Jesus into our lives which guarantees we will never be souless. Once that light is in us, it may be very small, but we will never loose it. Now on the other hand if we take the light that we are given, and never add to it the Light of Jesus, then the light we have will be taken away and we will never be able to allow it to work in us again.

 

[Perfection]

What constitutes "accept[ing] the salvation that God willed in Jesus"?

 

[timtofly]

What constitutes "accept[ing] the salvation that God willed in Jesus"?

Faith that it is the Truth.

 

[Perfection]

How can you believe that such a thing is moral that pins an eternal suffering on people simply who do not understand some metaphysical truth?

 

[timtofly]

How can you believe that such a thing is moral that pins an eternal suffering on people simply who do not understand some metaphysical truth?

That is what knowledge is for. If one has a candle it shows one step at a time at night. If one has a torch they can see the lion crouched and avoid it. If one has the sun, one can see as far as the eye can see. If one does not see the metaphysical one really does not have morality. We do good, but there is no return for our good. Do we stop doing good, or is there peace inside that even though good is not returned we know it is good just for it's own sake. We do bad and make a small gain, but afterward we feel rotten. Do we keep doing bad and hope that it will outweigh the rotten feeling? We learn by what we feel is just.

Do we always think about the metaphisical? No we usually learn from mistakes and go on. It is true that some take the next step and reason out why they do what they do. This allows more Truth to lighten our way. Faith is taking God at His word. When that faith is realized and we gain knowledge that brings peace, we know it is a Truth. Sometimes our experiences will allow knowledge and then Faith. Sometimes we have to exercise Faith to gain knowledge. Each person is totally different.

That is why I believe that the soul is God in us and that through experiences we either obtain more light or the light is diminished. God is moral and just in that we each have a soul. He allows us freedom to choose and He allows everyone an equal opportunity. Now you can argue that some people have more light than others, but can you say you know how much light I had at birth? Neither can I say how much you had at birth. Now we have knowledge about each other through this mode of communication, but only so much as revealed. Only God and each person on earth know how much light they have and do not have.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

There's a reason Christ turned water into wine using nothing but the power of the Holy Spirit, yet we cannot do this.

What reason do we have to believe this? Granted, this is everyone's favorite miracle, but exchanging water for wine is a fairly simple parlor trick.

 

[Perfection]

That is what knowledge is for. If one has a candle it shows one step at a time at night. If one has a torch they can see the lion crouched and avoid it. If one has the sun, one can see as far as the eye can see. If one does not see the metaphysical one really does not have morality. We do good, but there is no return for our good. Do we stop doing good, or is there peace inside that even though good is not returned we know it is good just for it's own sake. We do bad and make a small gain, but afterward we feel rotten. Do we keep doing bad and hope that it will outweigh the rotten feeling? We learn by what we feel is just.

Do we always think about the metaphisical? No we usually learn from mistakes and go on. It is true that some take the next step and reason out why they do what they do. This allows more Truth to lighten our way. Faith is taking God at His word. When that faith is realized and we gain knowledge that brings peace, we know it is a Truth. Sometimes our experiences will allow knowledge and then Faith. Sometimes we have to exercise Faith to gain knowledge. Each person is totally different.

That is why I believe that the soul is God in us and that through experiences we either obtain more light or the light is diminished. God is moral and just in that we each have a soul. He allows us freedom to choose and He allows everyone an equal opportunity. Now you can argue that some people have more light than others, but can you say you know how much light I had at birth? Neither can I say how much you had at birth. Now we have knowledge about each other through this mode of communication, but only so much as revealed. Only God and each person on earth know how much light they have and do not have.

Well, this flies in the face of my own personal experience. When I contemplate morality and truth, my thoughts compel me to embrace a naturalistic worldview, one that rejects the miracles of the bible and the existence of the afterlife.

Why do you think this is so?

 

[timtofly]

Well, this flies in the face of my own personal experience. When I contemplate morality and truth, my thoughts compel me to embrace a naturalistic worldview, one that rejects the miracles of the bible and the existence of the afterlife.

Why do you think this is so?

Have you ever experienced "demonic" forces?

 

[Perfection]

Have you ever experienced "demonic" forces?

Not that I am aware of! Do you think I'm possessed or something?

 

[timtofly]

Not that I am aware of! Do you think I'm possessed or something?

No. Usually someone mentions on here that they were religious and stopped being. Some people state they were never religious. You look at life naturally and that nature defines morality. There is no afterlife, and I would assume you have had a peaceful life. Now until something is revealed that changes any of the above assumptions and the fact that you are unable to recall a force that puts fear into you or allows you to do superhuman feats whereby you do not have a need for a God, I am just asking. I have never been "moved" by miracles either. If they happened fine, if they didn't that is fine also. I tend to reason out what makes sense to me logically. Now if a miracle has a purpose, then that purpose interest me more than the miracle itself. Now I have experienced the "presence" of things that have sent a chill up my spine. Things that cannot be explained naturally. We have reached the 1000 post, and need to start a new thread.

 

[Perfection]

So the question then arises, why should my lack of knowledge of salvation be worthy of damnation if my most earnest internal sense compels me to accept the naturalistic worldview?

 

[El_Machinae]

In heaven, are you able do the unselfish thing and trade places with a loved one suffering in hell?

I think there's an actual theological debate here.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

The Bible is not as 'clear' as modern conceptions of life/soul/spirit, etc., because our conceptions are a bit more sophisticated. The word 'life' up there is not so clearly what we think of as 'life'. As you can see from my link, that word is used many times in contexts where we interpret it as 'soul'. In English, we've learned the verse as 'life'. But it's not obviously that from the original translation.

 

[BuckeyeJim]

Well, I highly doubt it would still be a fetus. I believe everyone will be in the prime of their life in heaven, forever, at least physically. I don't have hard Biblical Evidence here, its just my theory.

How is it possible for a fetus to be anything other than a fetus? The prime of its life would have been as a fetus?

 

[Flying Pig]

I think there's an actual theological debate here.



The Bible is not as 'clear' as modern conceptions of life/soul/spirit, etc., because our conceptions are a bit more sophisticated. The word 'life' up there is not so clearly what we think of as 'life'. As you can see from my link, that word is used many times in contexts where we interpret it as 'soul'. In English, we've learned the verse as 'life'. But it's not obviously that from the original translation.

This 'protestant' Christian would say there's no hell, so no problem. But assuming it does exist, I suppose the issue hinges upon why the boss wants to put certain people in hell in the first place. If he has soem sort of quota to fill, then I imagine it would be acceptable, but realistically if he's punishing people then it's for their own good (either because they'll get out eventually, or to ensure that it remains a deterrant for us on earth) and, since he knows better than you, he would explain that there's no place-switching allowed.

So the question then arises, why should my lack of knowledge of salvation be worthy of damnation if my most earnest internal sense compels me to accept the naturalistic worldview?

Again an Anglican point of view; everyone has a moral system or at least a conscience: God is happy if you follow that even when it's difficult and is disappointed when you give up on it. He's not going to say 'well, you were a cracking Jew, but unfortunately because you were born in Israel rather than Italy I'm not going to accept you'.

 

[GhostWriter16]

How is it possible for a fetus to be anything other than a fetus? The prime of its life would have been as a fetus?

Well, Adam was created as an adult (IMO) and I believe he can do the same to those who arrive young in Heaven. In fact, at this point, they may then have to choose God or against him, and that may establish their eternal destiny. This would make sense, because then everyone must choose God at some point or reject him, and then everyone gets a chance to.

This 'protestant' Christian would say there's no hell, so no problem.

Just curious, but why do you think its in the Bible then? What do the passages that talk about it mean? Even if you don't believe Revelation, Jesus still talks about it, and he makes it clear belief in him is the only way into Heaven.

But assuming it does exist, I suppose the issue hinges upon why the boss wants to put certain people in hell in the first place. If he has soem sort of quota to fill, then I imagine it would be acceptable, but realistically if he's punishing people then it's for their own good (either because they'll get out eventually, or to ensure that it remains a deterrant for us on earth) and, since he knows better than you, he would explain that there's no place-switching allowed.

I think its because as sinners, we deserve separation from God's precense. For the Christian, Christ paid our price, so we couldn't really trade that in. If we could, our Supreme goal would be to end up in Hell so someone else didn't have to, but our real Supreme goal is to live with Christ in Heaven. And if we could "Switch Places" Paul would be in Hell.

Again an Anglican point of view; everyone has a moral system or at least a conscience: God is happy if you follow that even when it's difficult and is disappointed when you give up on it. He's not going to say 'well, you were a cracking Jew, but unfortunately because you were born in Israel rather than Italy I'm not going to accept you'.

Well, there's a difference between Jew by race and Jew by religion. And besides, there are Messianic Jews.

 

[Flying Pig]

Just curious, but why do you think its in the Bible then? What do the passages that talk about it mean? Even if you don't believe Revelation, Jesus still talks about it, and he makes it clear belief in him is the only way into Heaven.

The people writing the particular passages, being Jewish - Paul certainly does this all the time in his letters- may well have injected their own views into what Jesus said and how they interpreted it. Bear in mind that the Gospels were written by people who weren't there at the time - they're far from reliable as historical records. They're also heavily translated - Jesus' words into Greek, transcribed through the ages and then into English - to such an extent that it's almost impossibe to know exactly what he meant. The idea of hell however doesn't wash with what we know of God through, well, living with him, so I prefer to start from there.

Well, there's a difference between Jew by race and Jew by religion. And besides, there are Messianic Jews.

That must be a textbook example of completely missing the point.

Can I rephrase that? Nobody makes a totally free choice on their religion. God isn't going to smite you because you were unlucky enough to be 'assigned' the 'wrong' religion, and didn't switch to a religion you may not even have heard of on no more evidence than you had for your original beliefs.

 

[El_Machinae]

Moderator Action: Thread closed. Sequel is here. All Protestants are welcome to answer, with the understanding that without good credentials, they're individualized answers.