Ask a Red, Second Edition

[Traitorfish]

Tommorow there is a Communist revolution in Great Britain. After a generation has passed - what unique improvements in my life I would enjoy because of the revolution?

Political and economic self-determination, an economic system that doesn't cease to function at regular intervals, lifelong material security, and- hopefully- some functioning response to environmental problems.

inspired by kim jong il's death.
What's position of CPUSA or other parties in US on anti-imperialist, oppressive regimes(Iran, Gaddafi...etc).

The majority of reds oppose these regimes, because we don't regard anti-worker regimes with independent dictators as being somehow intrinsically preferable to anti-worker regimes with Western puppets. However, some of the unreconstructed Stalinists, a lot of the Maoists, and a few of the more blinkered Trots will still give you the old Cold War line about "anti-imperialism", "national self-determination", and all that other tripe. Not sure about every little sect in the US, but the only parties that you're ever really likely to come across are the Communist Party and Socialist Party, who would be "anti-jerk", and the Party for Socialism and Liberation (a bizarro mixture of Trotskyism and Stalinism) who are "pro-jerk".

It appears we (The United States) are currently in a severe recession. The most important question right now to those of us in the US should be:

What can we do to get out of this economic rutt?

It appears that our government is hurting from a deficit. So either the government has to raise taxes and/or lower its spending. Either way seems unsatisfactory at the moment. If the government raises taxes it's going to hurt the economy. If the government lowers spending it is going to hurt the economy. If the government keeps things as they are its hurting the economy. What would the reds recommend we do? Also, as a red what is your take on the current economic crisis? What caused it? Could socialism or perhaps communism get us out of it? If so, how?

My personal take: I can see some reason to believe that socialism or communism (an economy based upon rational planning if such a thing can exist) might never have gotten to this point. The housing boom went straight to bust because there was no rational planning by the industry. They produced way more houses than was needed in such a short time that home builders are scarce for customers now. For awhile the homebuilding industry soaked up a lot of workers and when it went bust it flooded the market with all those unemployed people who knew how to build housed but didn't know how to do other things, which tends to drive wages down. So in some sense perhaps capitalism failed to keep the equalibrium.

Now, on the side of the Laissez-faire capitalists out there: perhaps it failed to keep the equilibrium because of artificial stimuli created by the government to spur the industry. That is possible too. In that sense, someone in the government didn't plan correctly. Now maybe they didn't plan correctly because some big shot friends of his wanted to get rich quick instead of do what was needed by society. So instead of rational planning we simply had a cluster fest of greed.

So yes, IMO the economy would probably benefit from rational planning. Rational planning is probably THE key element that I associate with socialism or communism. Would you (a "red") concur with this?

Thanks.

Communism is the abolition of the market economy as such. Asking if it would get you of the current economic rut is like wondering if you can fix a subsiding wall with dynamite.

 

[Quackers]

Aww Traitorfish I want a bit more meat on that answer!
Could you at least expand on the less obvious concepts you mentioned.

 

[Gary Childress]

Communism is the abolition of the market economy as such. Asking if it would get you of the current economic rut is like wondering if you can fix a subsiding wall with dynamite.

What do you mean by abolition of the "market economy"? Are people going to go back to bartering chickens and cows with their next door neighbors? I would think that a "market economy" is something that any and all macroscopic social systems of the 21st century are going to have to have. I am simply asking if switching to communism or socialism would eliminate our current economic woes. If it won't then what is the reason for switching to it?

OTOH if you are impying that everything will be communal in a communist society then I think you run into a severe problem as a proponent of communism because you are no longer only solving problems but creating them as well because not everyone is going to want to share everything they have with everyone else. If I produce a really nice computer with my labor I may or may not want to share it communally. I may wish to enjoy using it myself. Who is going to rip it out of my hands?

 

[Traitorfish]

Aww Traitorfish I want a bit more meat on that answer!
Could you at least expand on the less obvious concepts you mentioned.

Which ones are you referring to? Political and economic self-determination, if that's what you mean, simply means a form of organisation in which social life is organised in a directly democratic, bottom-up fashion.

What do you mean by abolition of the "market economy"? Are people going to go back to bartering chickens and cows with their next door neighbors?

You're aware that barter economies have only ever been found to exist in failed or failing monetary economies, right?

I would think that a "market economy" is something that any and all macroscopic social systems of the 21st century are going to have to have.

Presumably that's why you're not a communist.

I am simply asking if switching to communism or socialism would eliminate our current economic woes. If it won't then what is the reason for switching to it?

Yes, in the sense that decapitation is a solution for tooth-ache. Communism eliminates the current economic woes by eliminating the very terms of social organisation in which those economic woes emerge, i.e. by abolishing market relations.

OTOH if you are impying that everything will be communal in a communist society then I think you run into a severe problem as a proponent of communism because you are no longer only solving problems but creating them as well because not everyone is going to want to share everything they have with everyone else. If I produce a really nice computer with my labor I may or may not want to share it communally. I may wish to enjoy using it myself. Who is going to rip it out of my hands?

I don't really know what model of communism you're referring to, here.

 

[Gary Childress]

Political and economic self-determination, an economic system that doesn't cease to function at regular intervals, lifelong material security, and- hopefully- some functioning response to environmental problems.

Clearly you have great visions and are among the vanguard elite. I hereby appoint you and bequeath to you "the future of humanity". Clearly a couch potato like me has no rightful place in the future of this world. That is fine with me so long as I am allowed to live out the rest of my remaining days in relative happiness. I am a simple bachelor and have no children. I don't plan on having children and that is indeed a good thing.

You have inherited the Earth. Use it wisely.

 

[Traitorfish]

Clearly you have great visions and are among the vanguard elite. I hereby appoint you and bequeath to you "the future of humanity". Clearly a couch potato like me has no rightful place in the future of this world. That is fine with me so long as I am allowed to live out the rest of my remaining days in relative happiness. I am a simple bachelor and have no children. I don't plan on having children and that is indeed a good thing.

You have inherited the Earth. Use it wisely.

That would be funnier if you weren't talking to a left communist. We don't do vanguards.

 

[Gary Childress]

I don't really know what model of communism you're referring to, here.

OK so we have determined that a communist society doesn't barter, doesn't have a market economy, doesn't abolish personal property. What exactly does a communist society do? Is each person assigned a plot of ground and they plant their own vegetables? Is there specialization in such an economy? Does communism abolish individualism? Do we all get assimilated into social collectives where I have to share a dorm with a bunch of skate boarders with tatoos all over their bodies?

 

[Gary Childress]

That would be funnier if you weren't talking to a left communist. We don't do vanguards.

You mean there are different types of communists? I'm dead serious. I cede you the future. May you have plentiful offspring. I don't think I want to be a communist. I just want to enjoy life. Can I simply opt out or do I have to go along with the cutting edge?

 

[Traitorfish]

I'll remind you that this is a red diamond thread. Please save your snottiness for a more fitting location.

 

[Gary Childress]

I'll remind you that this is a red diamond thread. Please save your snottiness for a more fitting location.

Snottiness? I'm simply being honest. Do I have to be a communist? I have a job. I have computer games I like to play and some free time to play them. I personally don't see anything wrong with the world right now other than the fact that the economy needs some kind of boost. Yeah, I may be a decadent evil person but I figure pulling a Yossarian makes up for it. Are you mad that I'm ceding moral superiority to you?

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

I think all of your questions have already been answered in this thread, if you had been paying attention. To imply a caricature of communist society as some kind of pleasure-less hive of working drones is laughable at best.

 

[Gary Childress]

I think all of your questions have already been answered in this thread, if you had been paying attention. To imply a caricature of communist society as some kind of pleasure-less hive of working drones is laughable at best.

I never said that others wouldn't be happy as communists. I'm saying I (me, myself) don't see any reason to switch to communism as I am perfectly happy as society stands now. Why should I fix what isn't broken? I'm simply being honest. You guys can have all the communism you want. May it be a blessed system. I'm content with what's out there now, albeit except for the recession thing. Can I stick with what's out there now or do I need to switch? I don't know why you guys are in such a huff. I admit I'm decadent. Isn't that enough or do I need to go die somewhere?

Honestly I am no longer trying to insult anyone. Just stating my views. I asked questions, you guys replied telling me I'm being snotty so I defended myself. Really I haven't gone back and read the entire thread. I just had some questions. I don't think any of them were really answered in what I would consider a straightforward manner. But you certainly have the right not to answer them if they are repeats. Really I was talking to Traitorfish. Not sure how you dropped into the conversation or why.

It's certainly nice of the reds to have this red diamond thread, however, if I can't interact with the communist experts here then what is the point of this thread? Simply being told what people think without being able to challenge them or wrestle with the topic is the most banal form of learning there is. You have to have passion when you are trying to discover the world around you.

 

[aelf]

So, in effect, you're asking "communist experts" why you'd want a communist society when you don't want it? Seems like a really stupid question. Either you didn't think that through or you have some kind of personal agenda for posting in this thread.

 

[Gary Childress]

So, in effect, you're asking "communist experts" why you'd want a communist society when you don't want it? Seems like a really stupid question. Either you didn't think that through or you have some kind of personal agenda for posting in this thread.

It's stupid to ask why I should want communism?

 

[aelf]

Yeah, when it's obvious that you already have a set answer.

 

[Gary Childress]

Yeah, when it's obvious that you already have a set answer.

So if I like the current system and don't want communism because I am decadent and set in my ways I shouldn't ask why I SHOULD want communism?

 

[aelf]

Yeah, because you already know the answer (i.e. the only answer you want to hear), obviously.

 

[Gary Childress]

OK. So is it OK to ask what would a communist system be like? So for instance say I need a loaf of bread. Do I make it myself? Do I go to a market and buy it? Do I wait in a line to be given my fair share? I'm told that under communism I will have life long material security. What exactly constitutes life long material security and how will it be achieved in a communist society? Also I think some examples of what daily life would be like would help many of us get an idea of what we are in for when we get to communism.

Secondly, can those who don't want communism opt out? In other words I like the current system for the most part. I work at a decent job I have an abundance of computer games that keep me occupied in my spare time. If we switch to communism will I still be able to have this lifestyle?

 

[aelf]

I don't think buying bread would be something you'd need to worry about. My understanding is that the abolition of markets doesn't mean people would stop buying and selling. Rather, it means the abolition of markets as we know them presently under the logic of capital. I think that means buying and selling would go back to being much more local affairs, as it would probably entail the disappearance or at least severe curtailing of globalised capital as a significant driver of economies.

Would you still have computer games? I don't know. Perhaps not, or at least the variety would be much more limited. But I can live with that. What's fewer computer games compared to a better world?

Does that not sound attractive to you? Well, if it were up to them, why would most people who benefit from the prevailing system want out? But it's not up to you anyway. I think most Marxists would tell you that the transition would happen by necessity, although of course human hands would make the change. And I think there are signs today that suggest why such a transition might be necessary.

 

[Gary Childress]

I don't think buying bread would be something you'd need to worry about. My understanding is that the abolition of markets doesn't mean people would stop buying and selling. Rather, it means the abolition of markets as we know them presently under the logic of capital. I think that means buying and selling would go back to being much more local affairs, as it would probably entail the disappearance or at least severe curtailing of globalised capital as a significant driver of economies.

Would you still have computer games? I don't know. Perhaps not, or at least the variety would be much more limited. But I can live with that. What's fewer computer games compared to a better world?

Does that not sound attractive to you? Well, if it were up to them, why would most people who benefit from the prevailing system want out? But it's not up to you anyway. I think most Marxists would tell you that the transition would happen by necessity, although of course human hands would make the change. And I think there are signs today that suggest why such a transition might be necessary.

If given a choice between lifelong material security versus having some people live in mansions and some homeless like we have today I guess it makes moral sense to choose the later of the two options. You are probably right. I suppose I could get accustomed to a little less if everyone has life long material security.

NOTE: I know it has been stated that only certain people are allowed to answer the questions in this thread. I ask that the creators of this red diamond thread please treat this as a side bar conversation between to participants and not an official answer. Thanks.