ask a transman anything

I don't consider experts as people with mental conditions.
Eh? I'd rather trust the medical doctors than someone who doesn't seem to be well informed on the matter.

Yes, it is. Your race and gender are both determined by your parents and genes.
And gender may not match up with physical sex, that is the point.

And you contradict your own argument - if it's determined by genes, then you can't really say it's a mental or psychological issue.
 
Eh? I'd rather trust the medical doctors than someone who doesn't seem to be well informed on the matter.

Whatever floats your boat. You can take the biased person, or the person from the neutral angle.

And gender may not match up with physical sex, that is the point.

And you contradict your own argument - if it's determined by genes, then you can't really say it's a mental or psychological issue.

That's a mental condition, not a physical problem.

I'm not talking about the problem, I am talking about your gender with genes.
 
I don't consider experts as people with mental conditions.


Yes, it is. Your race and gender are both determined by your parents and genes.



Not many, but this does not mean they are not women or men. They still are, and they display some signs of those extra chromosomes.



And so what? You still are the sex you were born with.



You didn't have a physical problem. All you did was have a mental condition, and you tried a physical change, and you think you've "cured" yourself. But, you still have that mental condition, and I suggest you get it checked.



Bible? I don't use a Bible, it's not a science manual, and I don't treat as such. I look at this with a reasonable angle, and can see that your gender is not a problem or something that was a mistake. Only people with the mental condition that says it is (not saying it's a bad mental condition, but it still is).

You are a dinosaur, and know nothing. I shall not bother with you. You are not looking at this with a reasonable angle. What, you know more than the medical expert? Right, dream on. I do not have a mental condition, I had a biological problem which I fixed. I am legally a male and legally married to a genetic female, the state recognizes it and all my documents read male. Transsexual people are cleared by psychologist to make sure we do not have a mental condition, instead they diagnose us with gender dysphoria.

I have provided you with literature and information to state my claim, provide me with your evidence, or is bigotry all you got?
 
Whatever floats your boat. You can take the biased person, or the person from the neutral angle.



That's a mental condition, not a physical problem.

I'm not talking about the problem, I am talking about your gender with genes.

Take the scientific evidence, not my word. I didnt make this up, scientist and medical professionals did.
 
Sorry to disappoint you, but since the Gender Recognition Act 2004, a transsexual in UK can obtain new legal documents that match their acquired gender. Gender reassignment surgery is not a requirement. Compared to US where laws vary across states, UK is still a step ahead.


You are not disappointing me, if you read the initial post it was someone from england who had claimed that there documentation were not changed. I am glad that England has gotten with the program.
 
Sorry to disappoint you, but since the Gender Recognition Act 2004, a transsexual in UK can obtain new legal documents that match their acquired gender. Gender reassignment surgery is not a requirement. Compared to US where laws vary across states, UK is still a step ahead.

Here is the original post:
Originally Posted by Plotinus
Just thought I'd say what a great thread this is. Thanks for making it, Mark Angelo. Very sensible discussion from everyone. Anything that makes people more aware of such things is to be encouraged.

I had a friend at university who later became a transwoman. Although really I should say that he was a transwoman even then, but he was still physically a man. Call him X to remove confusion. It's slightly odd because X never gave the slightest indication that, mentally, he was female. I didn't know him particularly well and lost touch after university, but a mutual friend stayed in touch throughout X's "coming out", as it were, and the operation. I've never met X since then and find it hard to imagine him as a woman. But our friend's husband has only known X since the operation, and knows her only as a woman, and can't imagine her as a man! Judging by pictures, she looks much better as a woman than as a man.

I suspect that society here in Britain is kinder to transexuals than in the US, partly because this is a far less religious country (although sensible religious people would have no problem with it, in my view). However, I believe it is harder from a legal point of view. You cannot legally change your sex in Britain, so the only way a transexual could legally marry is if they are also gay, or if they marry another transexual, if you see what I mean.
 
I have provided you with literature and information to state my claim, provide me with your evidence, or is bigotry all you got?

My problem is not what you did, but it is why you did it. You believed you had a physical problem, when nothing suggests you do/did. You believed you did. It's a mental condition, will always be, and was always. It's in your mind, your body has no influence on it.
 
My problem is not what you did, but it is why you did it. You believed you had a physical problem, when nothing suggests you do/did. You believed you did. It's a mental condition, will always be, and was always. It's in your mind, your body has no influence on it.

So you are the voice of whom? What athority are you claiming. First and for most it is my body, I shall do with it what I please. You have it set in your mind that transsexuals have a mental condition, it is your right to believe what you want, but you are wrong. I and the doctors in my care, were the ones who gave me the diagnosis and treatment options. Just because you say something will always be and always has been does not make it so. Once again, prove to me with science with research not with your own conclusion and lack of evidence.
 
Whatever floats your boat. You can take the biased person, or the person from the neutral angle.

Are you representing yourself as being neutral on this question, then?
 
So you are the voice of whom? What athority are you claiming. First and for most it is my body, I shall do with it what I please. You have it set in your mind that transsexuals have a mental condition, it is your right to believe what you want, but you are wrong. I and the doctors in my care, were the ones who gave me the diagnosis and treatment options. Just because you say something will always be and always has been does not make it so. Once again, prove to me with science with research not with your own conclusion and lack of evidence.

I don't need doctors and evidence for the blinding obvious. I mean, you are born one gender or another, and you usually stick to it. Plus, the burden of the proof is on the positive, not the negative. I have viewed your sources, and do not see much truth behind them. I stick to my original statement, that people thinking they are of another gender is a mental condition (and here's your problem, I never say a mental condition, especially this one, is bad, you just automatically assume I say that. :rolleyes:) and until you can prove that wrong, I will stick by it.

Are you representing yourself as being neutral on this question, then?

I was in the beginning, but I must retract that statement now, as certain people have forced me to retract my original statements because of their trolling against Christianity.
 
I don't need doctors and evidence for the blinding obvious. I mean, you are born one gender or another, and you usually stick to it. Plus, the burden of the proof is on the positive, not the negative. I have viewed your sources, and do not see much truth behind them. I stick to my original statement, that people thinking they are of another gender is a mental condition (and here's your problem, I never say a mental condition, especially this one, is bad, you just automatically assume I say that. :rolleyes:) and until you can prove that wrong, I will stick by it.



I was in the beginning, but I must retract that statement now, as certain people have forced me to retract my original statements because of their trolling against Christianity.

So you admit you are Christian and this is where you base your views? It figures, no more needs to be said. Yet they want the world to accept them, when they do not accept anyone in the world. Hypocrisy and bigotry at its best.

You do not see the truth behind the many articles and research I have given you, yet you have provided zero in return. You are basically going by your Bible. I have proven your mental theory wrong, many times with the research, you however, have given me nothing but your own bigoted opinion.
 
So you admit you are Christian and this is where you base your views? It figures, no more needs to be said. Yet they want the world to accept them, when they do not accept anyone in the world. Hypocrisy and bigotry at its best.

No, I am not a Christian. I am an atheist who follows Catholic culture.

You do not see the truth behind the many articles and research I have given you, yet you have provided zero in return. You are basically going by your Bible. I have proven your mental theory wrong, many times with the research, you however, have given me nothing but your own bigoted opinion.

My Bible doesn't exist. :rolleyes:
 
I don't consider experts as people with mental conditions.

I have what you call a "mental condition" too. Does that mean I can't be an expert on anything?

I find that a very worrying attitude to mental disability.

AlCosta, you don't seem to understand that certain "mental problems" are physical problems, because the brain is a physical thing and it can go wrong. Transgendered people have a problem because their brains don't match the rest of their bodies. That is a physical problem, caused by the wrong hormones in the womb or whatever it may be. Our physical characteristics are caused not just by our genes but also by the environment in the womb, and this is a problem that is caused by those two things not matching up properly.

The mere fact that you can't see a disability doesn't mean it's not real. A transgendered person, before doing anything about it, may appear completely physically normal, but they are not. The brain is a physical organ and it can go wrong in many ways, with the result that you have a physiological disorder that is only manifested mentally or psychologically. There are many such disorders. You can't simply draw a great distinction between "mental" and "physical" disorders, because the mental is ultimately caused by the physical.

I don't understand the idea that the way you are born is necessarily "right" and it is somehow "wrong" to do anything to change it. Are short-sighted people wrong to wear glasses or (horrors!) have their eyes lasered? We are what we are because of physical processes. Physical processes aren't "right" or "wrong", they just are. You might as well say it's wrong to build a house because nature didn't do so.

I'm glad to hear that the law has been changed in Britain now. Legally, the place has really come on in the past ten years.
 
Look answer this ,why do men have a line on their scrotum? Why do men have nipples? We all started out as females, it was not unitl testosterone bathed our system that the labia majora closed and became your scrotum. I would put my money on the scientists, they have been doing the research for quite a while. Why is it so difficult for people to believe that we all start out as females, why is it so terrible?

Nipples have a use for men, they are considered sexual organs, as they produce sexual arousing when touched or excited in any way. From one of your sources. :p And ever heard of male lactation?

It is not "terrible" at all, but I just know it is untrue. And I studied these things too, and before seeing your articles I had no idea someone actually implies that we are all women until androgen baths our brain/sexual organs.

About the line on the scrotum, well, if you look carefully, the line continues on the penis, and even inside (for uncircumcised men!), on the head. It's just because the human body is (supposed to be) perfectly symetric, why does the... argh, I hate it when I don't know the English word for a biology term... the thing on your back (which goes down from the brain, you know what I mean, I just don't know the English word), have a line? And fetuses, until a certain moment of development, have tails too! What does that tell you?

There are many unused things in our body. Not only in men.
 
<snip> If my child was born disabled, I'd leave him that way because that's how he was born, that's how the genes worked out.
That's rather harsh on your hypothetical child. Would you refuse, on their behalf, surgery/physiotherapy to correct congenital hip displacement, or a cleft palate? If your child was born with an imperforate anus, would you prefer them to die within days rather than allow life-saving surgery? Hole in the heart? Would you also refuse a short-sighted child spectacles, or a deaf one a hearing aid?
 
Nipples have a use for men, they are considered sexual organs, as they produce sexual arousing when touched or excited in any way. From one of your sources. :p And ever heard of male lactation?

It is not "terrible" at all, but I just know it is untrue. And I studied these things too, and before seeing your articles I had no idea someone actually implies that we are all women until androgen baths our brain/sexual organs.

About the line on the scrotum, well, if you look carefully, the line continues on the penis, and even inside (for uncircumcised men!), on the head. It's just because the human body is (supposed to be) perfectly symetric, why does the... argh, I hate it when I don't know the English word for a biology term... the thing on your back (which goes down from the brain, you know what I mean, I just don't know the English word), have a line? And fetuses, until a certain moment of development, have tails too! What does that tell you?

There are many unused things in our body. Not only in men.

Nipples are a part of the fetal default system as well as the mullerian ducts and wolferian ducts. Lets forget about the word female for a moment. Our species as the probability of producing two products, although mutations are known to take place, two products are typical. The one product we decided to call female. The manufacture created the pro type ( default system to be female) If the signal is not received the pathway will continue female. If the signal from the hormonal influx or cocktail is received then the pathway will alter and we will produce a male. Now there are certain hot spots in our bodies, nipples are one of them, so of coarse men are going to feel sensation in their nipples, this doesn't mean that nipples function in men is for sex. Men feel great pleasure in their anus as well, but I am sure many do not agree with its use, unless it is to defecate. The line that crosses the scrotum and up the penis, if you look at your labia minora and majora that leads up to your clitoris, its the opposite until it closes. This is in the medical journals of development, not talked about much, due to the impact it will give. Oh my God so we all start out as females, men really wouldn't want that fact known, now would we.

I will share a tid bit with you. My once clitoris after hormonal therapy has become a micro penis, it looks exactly as a penis the foreskin the head. We are a byproduct of hormones, as much as you want to deny it. All female body builders that take steroids, there once female bodies changes into male, including hair growth in their face and body, and their clitoris changes into a penis. Just as it happens in the womb when androgen is introduces to the once female fetus. My voice is now the voice of a man, as you can hear on any of my videos, I use to sing soprano and have a very female voice. Case in fact the default is female, introduce androgen, and it will change to male, just as nature intended.

On the opposite coin, a male transforming to female, will take estrogen, and his nipples will become full breast, some get bigger than others depending on their genetic make up. I have seen many female transsexuals well endowed in the breast department after hormone therapy.

In case you did not read the link I provided here is the information that lets you know all fetuses start out as females. You can check the references on the article. Just because you have not learned or read about it before does not mean it isn't true. Remember science and medicine is constantly advancing and changing:

http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2789.htm

DEVELOPMENT OF GENDER IDENTITY - USUAL PATTERNS Section 3 of 7
Author Information Definitions Development Of Gender Identity - Usual Patterns Development Of Gender Identity - Unusual Patterns Gender Identity Disorders Of Childhood Summary Of Gender Development In Children Bibliography




Prenatal influences

A child's gender development, meaning maturation of gender identity, clearly begins in the intrauterine stage. Hormone-induced sexual dimorphism in the growing fetus probably plays a primary role. This is apparent in the fact that, most commonly, female sex corresponds with female gender, just as male sex and male gender are commonly linked.

Initially, all human fetuses are female, in that the default pathway is to develop into a female. During the eighth week of gestation, the presence of a Y chromosome and a functional locus for the SRY gene product, also called the testes determining factor (TDF), determines if testicular development will occur. This process converts the inherently female fetus into a male one, as a steadily increasing surge of testosterone is then produced by the testes. Much of the testosterone is converted to dihydrotestosterone, which is the key hormone to virilize the fetus. Along the biochemical pathway, other recently identified gene products likely play an additional role in the masculinization of the fetus.

Further progression toward the eventual male phenotype occurs as antim&#252;llerian hormone is produced, inhibiting the formation of m&#252;llerian ducts, which would lead to female genital development. The fetal brain is also affected by this process. The corpus callosum, amygdala, cerebellum, and portions of the preoptic area of the hypothalamus are larger in brains exposed to testosterone. Corresponding parts of the brain are smaller in female, or testosterone-deprived, fetuses. Indeed, in the absence of testosterone, the fetus continues its progression in the female state. Development of the ovaries and the female genital tract is likely triggered by follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), which is present in both male and female fetuses, but whose effect is masked by the testosterone surge in males.

The gender identity of a fetus, and later an infant, is still incomplete. Yet, current research indicates that because of the expected hormonal exposure secondary to genetic sex, a certain gender bias probably exists in all newborns. This rudimentary gender identity, although incomplete, is an important determinant in gender development. The dimorphism of the brain itself suggests this. Nevertheless, variations may occur when endogenous or exogenous factors create a fetal environment where hormone levels do not follow the genetically determined pattern. The gender bias of these infants may be tilted away from one that correlates with the genotype. Such variations are discussed below.
 
:lol:
When I was in the beginning stages of my transformation where I looked very androgynous, people would stare and were rather short and rude. The biggest discrimination would always come from the Christians, they always had something to say and there judgemental looks did not need words attached to them. I find that the fundamentalists do more harm than good for our society, creating an animosity and hate crime environment. They forget the true teachings of Christ. They are the ones that make comments such as "God does not make mistakes, why would you go against Gods plan, et". They know nothing of what God wants, and know less about fetal and brain development. I say put the bible down and start to use your heart for your guide.

The urethra is lengthened and there are many complications that can set in, to include fistulas. It is easier for a man to become a woman, than a woman to become a man as far as the lower surgery is concern. We all start of as Eve in the womb, its not until androgen is introduced that the masculinzation starts to take place. The labia majora becomes the scrotum, ( see the scar line on mens scrotum) the glands clitoris turns into a glans penis. The nipple remain on a man as a reminder of his once female status. Why else would men have nipples, they have no functional use for them?

Hm, so it sounds like its all connected :goodjob: Just you hear about these folks with a bit of both going on...

Its a shame if someone would of had a go at you for it, and on the argument over it being a mental condition, while obviously it is a abnormality for someone, its not a problem if it doesnt do anything detrimental, and now he has :king:

Also, how have you found being a dude? :lol: Do you find it harder to make friends now?

Good lukc in life!
 
:lol:

Hm, so it sounds like its all connected :goodjob: Just you hear about these folks with a bit of both going on...

Its a shame if someone would of had a go at you for it, and on the argument over it being a mental condition, while obviously it is a abnormality for someone, its not a problem if it doesnt do anything detrimental, and now he has :king:

Also, how have you found being a dude? :lol: Do you find it harder to make friends now?

Good lukc in life!

Thanks, it feels like it's suppose to, like it should have been all along. The Mirror definetly makes sense now. Actually I make friends easier now than before. Before I was very withdrawn much of a loner. Now I communicate better, I am more outgoing and confident.
 
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