Ask Iranians

[Leatherneck]

The latest crisis in Lebanon was triggered by an attack in the border on an Isreali patrol between 2 parties at war (low key conflict between Hizbollah and IDF), the solders were captured for prisoner exchange purposes.

The last bombs that went off in Isreal targeting civillians that is attributable to Hizbollah in Isreal happened before Isreali widthdrawal from Lebanon. After the widthdrawal, Lebanon was working on integrating Hizbollah resistance force into the Lebanon society and politics. Where did this "Israel gets suicide bombs so offen that many don't merit the front page and think they just get sick of it a strike back with immence force." come from? Did you meant Hamas? If so what has it gotta do with Lebanon?

Yes I know that. I am including all attackes on Israel not just Hezbollah, if you are b1tch slapped enough you don't care who did it first or last, every one pays. I said it was a poor analogy.

 

[PersianBoy]

to this cartoons iranian jews because lack of time don't respond and answer
but i sure that they don't like it
about Danish cartoons they dilike it too because they thnk like Pope and Vatican that must some respect to religions is needed

 

[nivi]

I heard and saw in film that Nazis kill old poeples and use youth of them for working
but I agree that number of poeple killed is too haigh but not up to 10000000
think about that this number if try to fight with Nazis then more bullets waste

when i heard about wy of killing in this way, think that why these poeple don't revolt and try to fight with Nazis
some time think that maybe accept that Nazis have right to kill them
they saw that thier niegbours and families gone and never come back, so they know that maybe they killed and this is possible future for them, but why they don't revolt, in both way they die, but there is little chance to escape from prison and camps in secound way
but waiting when some solders come and bring them to Gas room is redicilous!

Most of them thought that they are just going to work for the nazis, and the gas chambers they thought they will be getting showers.
And there were revolts, most famous is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

 

[Leatherneck]

to this cartoons iranian jews because lack of time don't respond and answer
but i sure that they don't like it
about Danish cartoons they dilike it too because they thnk like Pope and Vatican that must some respect to religions is needed

The Danes are not ruled by the Pope, the Pope is head of the Catholic Church he is not a political head of state ... I think I see part of the problem and I might be wrong, it's been known to happen. Our (the West) regilious leaders can ASK that is something is done within that denomination. i.e. the Catholics follow the Pope but the Pope does not issue COMMANDS to the western world. He can as anybody can state what is right or worng in his opinion, doesn't mean the media or population is going to listen to him. As for me, I'm not Catholic, what that Pope said has no effect on me. This is not the middle ages, the pope has no where near the power he once had, the days of the inquisition are long over. He is a Religious leader only.

 

[PersianBoy]

This is piles of glasses from dead jews ...

Mass grave ..

NEED MORE?

ok I can't count them but I doon't yhink number of deads reach even 1000
between 1000 and 10000000 i think a very wide diffrence
and any one can claim that thier jew as i can claim that they are muslims (I'm kidding)
i need some documents from Nazis like this paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hoefletelegram.jpg
but thank you for your pics
but before watch like them in this persian news site
http://www.baztab.com/news/32090.php
in above in persian wrote:
"after president talks about holocaust, one of our audiance send for us some pics as documents of holocaust"
and in bottom wrote: (one of poeple saw that pics, usual poeple can write thier openion about news as I some times do)
"but these pictures don't prove holocaust, they only show soem pics of presioners"
this site is a popular news site in Iran and many paper news publish news from this site

and if I send these pics to this site and if they publish them any one can claim that they are shows some dead mans even die because of illness and that glasses are old glasses for recycling

 

[PersianBoy]

Accurate numbers for exactly how many humans died as a result of the Nazi plans are simply not available and never will be.

so any one can any number for deads in this way
as jews can say 6000000
our president can say for example 500000
and some french poeple talk about 1500000
but the correct IMO is too much poeple kill in that way and in other way not a exact number
and we must try to prevent such killing in any where of world

 

[nivi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Please read some of it.


" The commonly used figure for the number of Jewish victims is six million, though estimates by historians using, among other sources, records from the Nazi regime itself, range from five million to seven million. Millions of other minorities also perished in the Holocaust in addition to this figure."

 

[PersianBoy]

I doubt Ahmadi nejad would answer me, to compair The US today to Britain of old is just silly and you are smart enought to know that.
Britians goal was to rule from Britain to make it a coloney, has Amerca planted their flag in any other contry and siad ok this is now part of America and you must pay taxes to support America... that is what Britian did and that is why to US broke away from Britian. Not a fair comparison.

I have any chance that you hear some thing of new colonization
i mean there is no need to counquor a country and then send a governer to govern there
just support friends in that country and be sure that they also support your intersting

i say that example only for show that countries before do such things (counquoring a country far from thier lands) and don't say that method of US and UK is the same

 

[Turner]

our president can say for example 500000

Prove it. Show statistics or documents that say it was only 500,000.

The exact number of people killed by the Nazi regime may never be known, but scholars, using a variety of methods of determining the death toll, have generally agreed upon common range of the number of victims. Recently declassified British and Soviet documents have indicated the total may be somewhat higher than previously believed[7]. However, the following estimates are considered to be highly reliable. The estimates:

5.1–6.0 million Jews, including 3.0–3.5 million Polish Jews[8]
1.8 –1.9 million non-Jewish Poles (includes all those killed in executions or those that died in prisons, labor, and concentration camps, as well as civilians killed in the 1939 invasion and the 1944 Warsaw Uprising)[9]
500,000–1.2 million Serbs killed by Croat Nazis
200,000–800,000 Roma & Sinti
200,000–300,000 people with disabilities
80,000–200,000 Freemasons [10]
100,000 communists
10,000–25,000 homosexual men
2,500-5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses [11]
Raul Hilberg, in the third edition of his ground-breaking three-volume work, The Destruction of the European Jews, estimates that 5.1 million Jews died during the Holocaust. This figure includes "over 800,000" who died from "Ghettoization and general privation;" 1,400,000 who were killed in "Open-air shootings;" and "up to 2,900,000" who perished in camps. Hilberg estimates the death toll in Poland at "up to 3,000,000."[12] Hilberg's numbers are generally considered to be a conservative estimate, as they generally include only those deaths for which some records are available, avoiding statistical adjustment.[13] British historian Martin Gilbert used a similar approach in his Atlas of the Holocaust, but arrived at a number of 5.75 million Jewish victims, since he estimated higher numbers of Jews killed in Russia and other locations.[14]

Lucy S. Dawidowicz used pre-war census figures to estimate that 5.934 million Jews died. Using official census counts may cause an underestimate since many births and deaths were not recorded in small towns and villages. Another reason some consider her estimate too low is that many records were destroyed during the war. Her listing of deaths by country of origin is available in the article about her book, The War Against the Jews.[15]

One of the most authoritative German scholars of the Holocaust, Prof. Wolfgang Benz of the Technical University of Berlin, cites between 5.3 and 6.2 million Jews killed in Dimension des Volksmords (1991), while Yisrael Gutman and Robert Rozett estimate between 5.59 and 5.86 million Jewish victims in the Encyclopaedia of the Holocaust (1990).[16]

The following groups of people were also killed by the Nazi regime, but there is little evidence that the Nazis planned to systematically target them for genocide as was the case for the groups above.

3.5–6 million other Slavic civilians
2.5–4 million Soviet POWs
1–1.5 million political dissidents
Additionally, the Ustaša regime, the Nazis' allies in Croatia, conducted its own campaign of mass extermination against the Serbs in the areas which it controlled, resulting in the deaths of at least 330,000–390,000 Serbs.

The summary of various sources' estimates on the number of Nazi regime victims is given in Matthew White's online atlas of 20th century history.

Searching for records of victims
Initially after World War II, there were millions of members of families broken up by the war or the Holocaust searching for some record of the fate and/or whereabouts of their missing friends and relatives. These efforts became much less intense as the years went by. More recently, however, there has a been a resurgence of interest by descendants of Holocaust survivors in researching the fates of their lost relatives. Yad Vashem provides a searchable database of three million names, about half of the known direct Jewish victims. Yad Vashem's Central Database of Shoah Victims Names is searchable over the Internet at yadvashem.org or in person at the Yad Vashem complex in Israel.

Other databases and lists of victims' names, some searchable over the Web, are listed in Holocaust (resources).

Source.

So you say that there was only half a million. Give us some data to back it up. These are people who have put some work into their estimate, and not just pull a number out of their bum.

 

[nivi]

Here, this part is specifcly about what we are talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll


Edit: Out posted by turner.

 

[brennan]

i need some documents from Nazis like this paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hoefletelegram.jpg

It's an SS report of the numbers of people 'liquidated' in four camps in 1942: the total number is 1,274,166 (for that year) there were other camps of course so the overall total for that year would be larger.

 

[PersianBoy]

Right and if you go by the Bible or History that has been 3200 years ago, I think its time to get along.

but I don't think life of mankind in this world started from 3200 years ago
maybe some poeple lived there 3300 years ago
and don't remember that for a long time they don't live there and leave thier promised land to find another land for themselves

 

[PersianBoy]

the word your loooking for is "coffin" or "casket".

thank you I mean casket

 

[PersianBoy]

The word you are looking for is "casket" I'll see if I can find anything as I said the west is not big on allowing these pictures as you saw in Lebanon they are often used for propaganda and since using the dead for that reason is in western eyes morally irrehensible it is avoided. Even when Americans where beheaded by terrorist you had to look pretty hard to find the video of it as it was not shown on western TV out of respect for the family.

but you post some of them in above of your post

action of terrorist in 11/9 to world trade organizations building
if you mean that TV of iran many time showed it and I can find it easily in persian sites in that time and I had it in my computer

for propaganda think that how can they show israel is attacking them without these tools
and don't you think using pics that i mention is not a propaganda for israelies too
shows that they killed in a past time (about 60 years ago) and we learn from israelies to show our deads as a tools

 

[Whomp]

Persianboy I would like to discuss economics. You are studying to be an economist so you are an expert.

• What job would you like after you study?

Can you tell us more about two very powerful groups in your country.
Bazaaris--my understanding that a business owner often needs to borrow money from members of the merchant bazaari class instead of state run banks. Even though the cost is higher.

• Is it because the government run banks are more difficult to borrow from since credit is rationed?
• Would you work for someone like this?

The Bonyads--my understanding these are charitable organization give great control to the clerics.
I've read that there's the bonyad based in the holy city of Mashhad that has used donations from as many as 8 million pilgrims a year to buy up 90 percent of the arable land in the surrounding region. I've read it's controlled by Ayatollah Abbas Vaez-Tabazi - whose son and daughter are married to two of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's children. The foundation also owns universities and a cola factory.

• Is this too much power to give a group like this?
• Do the pilgrims feel the money they give is being used properly?
• Is it changing?

 

[Leatherneck]

PersianBoy

I'll answer you questions soon, I have to get some work done today or I'm going to have to fire myself ... and that won't be good. LOL

 

[Phlegmak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Please read some of it.


" The commonly used figure for the number of Jewish victims is six million, though estimates by historians using, among other sources, records from the Nazi regime itself, range from five million to seven million. Millions of other minorities also perished in the Holocaust in addition to this figure."

Let's not forget this:
http://www.uca.edu/divisions/academic/history/cahr/holocaust.htm

 

[Leatherneck]

ok I can't count them but I doon't yhink number of deads reach even 1000
between 1000 and 10000000 i think a very wide diffrence
and any one can claim that thier jew as i can claim that they are muslims (I'm kidding)
i need some documents from Nazis like this paper
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hoefletelegram.jpg
but thank you for your pics
but before watch like them in this persian news site
http://www.baztab.com/news/32090.php
in above in persian wrote:
"after president talks about holocaust, one of our audiance send for us some pics as documents of holocaust"
and in bottom wrote: (one of poeple saw that pics, usual poeple can write thier openion about news as I some times do)
"but these pictures don't prove holocaust, they only show soem pics of presioners"
this site is a popular news site in Iran and many paper news publish news from this site

and if I send these pics to this site and if they publish them any one can claim that they are shows some dead mans even die because of illness and that glasses are old glasses for recycling

Ok I have a minute here ....

Instead of the facts proving to you that the holocaust really happened, let us just deny all type of holocaust shall we?

We will start with ... Bosnia Herzgovina, Kossovo and Macedonia - Where more than half million Muslims were killed, almost all the adult male population of Bosnia and Kossovo was sent into concentration camps. Women and children were not only tortured and raped but they were forced to kill their own relatives with their own hands. We'll mark that up as it never happened.

Moving right along - Muslims in China - The reduction in Muslim population has been drastic during the communist regime of China. So far all the communist governments have seen Muslims as threat and they have killed more than half million Muslims during the communist party rule. I didn't see anything, must not have happened.

Another one - Kashmir - The Muslims of Kashmir have been struggling for their freedom for the last two centuries. Thousands of Muslims have been killed. The Indian forces have carried out the Genocide of Muslims in Kashmir openly and deliberately. But likely that has been made up as propoganda.

Still more who could forget - Palestine - Islamic cliam more than over a million Palestinians have been killed, millions of them have made refugees, and millions of them are in the concentration camps. Well I'm here to tell you it never happened, all made up as seen in Pallywood.

On other events - The Partition Holocaust - which is not one a many holocaust not on muslims but BY muslims including the Hindu Kush - The Bahmani sultans in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on. According to some calculations, the Indian population decreased by 80 million between 1000 CE (conquest of Afghanistan) and 1525 CE (end of Delhi Sultanate). But likely this is nothing more than Hindu whining and bad photoshop.
and .... Hindus suffered such attempted extermination in East Bengal in 1971, when the Pakistani Army killed 1 to 3 million people, with Hindus as their most wanted target. Poopycock, didn't happen more sniveling hindu BS.

Last one but I have tons more - Stalin's "genocide" through organized famine in Ukraine killed some 7 million people (lowest estimate is 4 million) in 1931-33, the largest-ever deliberate mass murder in peacetime, but its victims were targeted because of their economic and political positions, not because of their nationhood. Like western propoganda to demonize the commies.

I could go on with Chechnya, Cambodian and more but I think you get the jist.

Point is PersianBoy, just because someone said it didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't happen. I find it a little hard to belief that you could get the Russians, British, French, Italians, Americans and even the German et al to go along with a story so large that was made up by the Jews. No; history would have proved this, if that was true. The Nazi Holocaust did happen and to dismiss history is to dismiss the thruth and it is bound to repeat itself. I for one am not for making the same mistake twice.

In a lighter example of intent, I could say that the Jews didn't hack Iranian websites, that the Iranians hacked their own site to build up more hate for the jews. you have no proof unlike the mountains of documents regarding the holocaust. So I could easily dismiss that as Iranian rhetoric, right. Seem fair.

Here is a question to ask yourself - If Ahmadinejad really believed that the holocaust never happened, then why would he write Germany and propose firing up the death trains again? It's because it knows it's true, it happened.

Ok next thing ...

but I don't think life of mankind in this world started from 3200 years ago
maybe some poeple lived there 3300 years ago
and don't remember that for a long time they don't live there and leave thier promised land to find another land for themselves

I don't either, I'd guess it's closer to 4 billion years. But what I was getting at is that IF the Jews have been in Palestine since Moses 3200 years ago give or take, then why did the Palestinians wait 3100 years to get annoyed? Seems that is the Palestinians didn't want the Jewish there they would have handled it 3100 years ago, instead of waiting until they got a country. Is it Israel's fault the Palestinians never set up a real country state? And if they got along for the most part for 3200 years then seems to me they can today if they act like a couple of mature adults instead of a couple of children fussing over who got a bigger slice of pie.

Back to work now hope that clears what I said up ...

 

[TheDervish]

Most of them thought that they are just going to work for the nazis, and the gas chambers they thought they will be getting showers.
And there were revolts, most famous is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising

Don't forget:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Sobibor

Great film.

 

[aneeshm]

Another one - Kashmir - The Muslims of Kashmir have been struggling for their freedom for the last two centuries. Thousands of Muslims have been killed. The Indian forces have carried out the Genocide of Muslims in Kashmir openly and deliberately. But likely that has been made up as propoganda.

At least this one is utter rubbish . It is the Hindus of Kashmir who have been systematically slaughtered and intimidated into fleeing the state , not the Muslims . How else can you explain the fact that 4,00,000 Hindu Ksahmiri Pandits have been driven out of their land by fanatical Muslims who have threatened them with death or worse ? Do you have any proof of this accusation ?