Atlas Shrugged: what do you think?

[Fifty]

one thing I find curious is that so many people see Rand as the definitive philosophical justification of a free market ideology. There are far far far far far far FAR better justifications for belief in the free market then Ayn Freaking Rand.

I'll post a lengthier explanatino as to why Rand is moronic later on. For now, I'd just recommend browsing Peikoff's official statement of Objectivism. If your IQ is over 80 it should be pretty immediately evident why objectivism is stupid.

 

[mrt144]

one thing I find curious is that so many people see Rand as the definitive philosophical justification of a free market ideology. There are far far far far far far FAR better justifications for belief in the free market then Ayn Freaking Rand.

I'll post a lengthier explanatino as to why Rand is moronic later on. For now, I'd just recommend browsing Peikoff's official statement of Objectivism. If your IQ is over 80 it should be pretty immediately evident why objectivism is stupid.

its funny because it is true!

 

[Elrohir]

That's quite the motto, there.

"Capitalism. It's pretty cool!"

Oh definitely. We could probably use it in commercials, too. "Don't you want to be cool, like all the other capitalists? Buy your 'I'm a capitalist, and if you don't like it you can shove it you pink commie *******!' t-shirts today!"

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Oh definitely. We could probably use it in commercials, too. "Don't you want to be cool, like all the other capitalists? Buy your 'I'm a capitalist, and if you don't like it you can shove it you pink commie *******!' t-shirts today!"

I'd so buy that shirt.

 

[Integral]

one thing I find curious is that so many people see Rand as the definitive philosophical justification of a free market ideology. There are far far far far far far FAR better justifications for belief in the free market then Ayn Freaking Rand.

Then I guess it's a good thing that my free-market libertarianism follows Hayek, not Rand.

I'll post a lengthier explanatino as to why Rand is moronic later on. For now, I'd just recommend browsing Peikoff's official statement of Objectivism. If your IQ is over 80 it should be pretty immediately evident why objectivism is stupid.

I'll look forward to it.

Elrohir: put me down for two shirts, please.

Integral

 

[Godwynn]

I liked the message Atlas Shrugged tried to convey, but it is poorly written and way too long.

I'll go along with the theme that Capitalism is pretty cool.

Objectivism on the other hand seems useless to me. It is telling me things I already know. Existence Exists, real deep...

 

[Merkinball]

Longwinded?

Generally boring?

 

[Godwynn]

Longwinded?

Generally boring?

There were times where I had to struggle to stay awake.

 

[Merkinball]

There were times where I had to struggle to stay awake.

Yeah, I pretty much thought it could have been written in thirty pages or less. But hey, I get to tell all the fundies I've read "Atlas Shrugged" and then I isntantly become "one of those people."

 

[El_Machinae]

You can always spot the 20-something that just read Rand, because they'll totally disparage welfare. I had a guy living in my house, kicked out of his home (for being gay) who said that there should be no welfare and that people should sink or swim on their own merit.

I thought it was funny. There's a 'theme' to people who've recently read it, you can't miss it once you notice it.

 

[Snowball]

I really didn't think it was that bad to read it. With the exception of John Galt's speech, I found it to be rather easy reading, just really long.

 

[IglooDame]

I haven't read it, and have little desire to. Heinlein and Cuppy probably had the greatest impact on my political development.

 

[captainmission]

i prefer the sequel

 

[aneeshm]

i prefer the sequel

Won't all the competent agriculturists be included in this bunch?

And as far as I'm aware, "Atlas Shrugged" did include agricultural production in Galt's Gulch. I distinctly remember that it was mentioned somewhere that they were more than self-sufficient in terms of food without compromising anyone's standard of living.

 

[Norbert]

Read a piece of Rand's works and see for yourself how her "movers" behave! Society would do better without the "movers" she describes, opportunistic, amoral and greedy individuals only concerned with what they believed to be their own immediate material self-interest.

OK, this is just irritating. Did you even read the damn book? These people are not amoral, they have a clearly defined moral code: from each according his ability, to himself, according to his ability, if you will. it's the villians(spelling) of the book who have no moral code other than tearing down the people around them: "the only absolute is the standard of compromise" after all...And, society would do better without self-interested individualists? hmmm...Great! That way, the entire world can look like that glorious workers paradise, the Soviet Union! Oh wait... I never said the book convinced me welfare is evil, or that man's only moral obligation to himself, or even that the world is headed for a future like that depicted in the book: but I don't drown things I disagree with in a torrent of bombast without even bothering to meet a genuine argument with genuine argumentation.

 

[innonimatu]

OK, this is just irritating. Did you even read the damn book? These people are not amoral, they have a clearly defined moral code: from each according his ability, to himself, according to his ability, if you will.

Her books are so pathetic I couldn't even bring myself to finish one. But I did read part of her imbecile speech. I've dug a few quotes:

No, the takers are not evil, provided they did not earn the value you gave them. It is not immoral for them to accept it, provided they are unable to produce it, unable to deserve it, unable to give you any value in return. It is not immoral for them to enjoy it, provided they do not obtain it by right.
(...)
Your code divides mankind into two castes and commands them to live by opposite rules: those who may desire anything and those who may desire nothing, the chosen and the demand, the riders and the carriers, the eaters and the eaten. What standard determines your caste? What passkey admits you to the moral elite? The passkey is lack of value.

Was she simply insane or an alien lost from the mother-ship?

In the name of a return to morality, you have sacrificed all those evils which you held as the cause of your plight. You have sacrificed justice to mercy. You have sacrificed independence to unity. You have sacrificed reason to faith. You have sacrificed wealth to need. You have sacrificed self-esteem to self-denial. You have sacrificed happiness to duty.
(...)
Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself?

I'll repeat: opportunistic, amoral and greedy.

Rand's "morality" was about destroying all morality except for self-interest. And I don't consider that morality. She manages to use the word "morality" more often per page that Bush uses "terrorist" in his speeches, but she couldn't even understand what morality means - it has always been about sacrifice, it will always be so (think about what sacrifice really means, what people sacrifice when they adhere to any moral code).
She presumes far too too much when she spews her ideas about human reason - how can someone who does not understand the least bit about humanity claim to know how humans reason?

And I won't presume to teach you about humanity. You can only learn it by living (not, mind you, by slaving to this or that ideology).

i prefer the sequel

That's a good one! I was just thinking, let all the selfish, greedy bastards leave, they would eventually kill each other or starve to death.

 

[emzie]

Ayn Rynd is a good name for a ship. A ship that sinks.

 

[luiz]

Never read it. In fact I never saw this book on sale, and had never heard of Rand before I joined this forum. So I can't comment.

I don't think they even sell this book on Brazil (though every book store in the country has volumns upon volumns of the "great" works of Marx, Trotsky, Proudhon, Gramsci, Lukács, etc etc etc. No wonder we're such a mediocre country)

 

[frob2900]

Is it just my impression or are most posters that are pumped up about Rand also rather young (15-25)?

 

[Fifty]

Is it just my impression or are most posters that are pumped up about Rand also rather young (15-25)?

Generally, yes. The reason is that it's simply appealing. It appeals to kids of above-average intelligence, telling them that selfishness is a virtue and impressing them with all sorts of talk about "axioms" and other words that make a bankrupt system sound nice.