Australia closing over 100 aboriginal communities

[NovaKart]

http://www.theguardian.com/australi...orum-to-condemn-indigenous-community-closures

There's plans to close down 100-150 remote aboriginal communities in Western Australia out of 274 which means they will shut down all services like water and eventually people will just have to move.

The articles I've read about it aren't very clear on why. It seems like the reason is that these communities are plagued by social problems. At least that's what I've picked up on from the articles but they never go into much detail.

I'm wondering why closing down the communities would really be a solution for this. I'm guessing that these communities are just so remote that they feel like its just too difficult to monitor the situation and provide social services.

Does anyone have more background information about this?

 

[FriendlyFire]

A lot of remote communities do not even have police, schools and are self run. Unfortunately there has been huge amount of child abuse, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and crime which seems to be an endless cycle. Australia did try a one off investment of money and manpower including military to try and address these problems hoping to turn things around.

Lets just say the problems run deep, even when aboriginals were given control of land think US indians, you had problems with corruption, crime and same social issues. Aboriginal given political cabinet for aboriginal affairs turn out to be big mistake as they kept re-electing criminal sexual assaulter. Its not all bad, money being spent on big communities are showing results, reducing crime, drug abuse and social problems.

Force relocation idea that WA is going to try seems like a bad idea. Even if it had a lot of money and resources I dont rate the chances of it working very high.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Natives are barbarians anyway. Better to force-assimilate them. To legally starve and reduce to beggary. It is the Democracy™ after all: the majority comes first, then the priveleged spoof minorities (LGBTs) to entertain the majority and satisfy its self-image of being just, and then the real minorities or the dirt.

Moderator Action: Infracted for inappropriate content.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Future PM]

A lot of remote communities do not even have police, schools and are self run. Unfortunately there has been huge amount of child abuse, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and crime which seems to be an endless cycle. Australia did try a one off investment of money and manpower including military to try and address these problems hoping to turn things around.

Lets just say the problems run deep, even when aboriginals were given control of land think US indians, you had problems with corruption, crime and same social issues. Aboriginal given political cabinet for aboriginal affairs turn out to be big mistake as they kept re-electing criminal sexual assaulter. Its not all bad, money being spent on big communities are showing results, reducing crime, drug abuse and social problems.

Force relocation idea that WA is going to try seems like a bad idea. Even if it had a lot of money and resources I dont rate the chances of it working very high.

The solution isn't to shut down these communities, but to provide them support. Unfortunately, no Australian government above the local level has ever provided Aborigines with a decent support structure, and even genuine attempts to do so are often paternalistic and patronising in the extreme.

This is more of an electoral issue than a budgetary one, however. The WA and Australian governmentts are both in electoral trouble, so they're appealing to the racist right by smacking down Aborigines, as well as foreigners. They can also claim it's due to budget problems caused by Labor. I doubt it works, but I also doubt the ALP does much different,

 

[classical_hero]

They are simply not sustainable in their current state. How much more money do we have to spend to make them viable?

 

[Future PM]

They are simply not sustainable in their current state. How much more money do we have to spend to make them viable?

It's not a matter of dollar figures, but correct allocation of that money. I'm willing to admit that I don't know enough about these remote communities to ascertain that. But I do know that the Westralian government is notoriously inefficient in its use of funds, being the proverbial beggar of the Australian states, constantly asking for more money while poorly managing what it has. There are many remote communities in NSW that get along just fine. Granted, WA is far larger and more sparsely populated, but the whole 'forcing Aborigines out of their homes and onto the fringes of white society' thing was tried previously, and failed miserably.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Let me guess.

Someone has found iron, gold, uranium nearby?

 

[Senethro]

Seems kind of a rough deal for a bunch of tribal cultures to have their land occupied, a sedentary lifestyle imposed on them, and then you turn the water off.

 

[Recon Rover]

Each time I think Canada is setting the bar low for treatment of Aboriginals I have to remind myself of Australia.

This reminds me of the first season of the Real Housewives of Melbourne when the ladies kept using the phrase "Chinese whispers".

 

[classical_hero]

It's not a matter of dollar figures, but correct allocation of that money. I'm willing to admit that I don't know enough about these remote communities to ascertain that. But I do know that the Westralian government is notoriously inefficient in its use of funds, being the proverbial beggar of the Australian states, constantly asking for more money while poorly managing what it has. There are many remote communities in NSW that get along just fine. Granted, WA is far larger and more sparsely populated, but the whole 'forcing Aborigines out of their homes and onto the fringes of white society' thing was tried previously, and failed miserably.

So getting only 33c in every dollar of GST and saying this isn't right is now winging. Thanks for the heads up. No state has been screwed over by this arrangement than we have been, while many inefficient states are getting extra money they don't deserve, such as SA and Tas.

Let me guess.

Someone has found iron, gold, uranium nearby?

No most are near barren places.

 

[Evie]

Ìn all fairness, Recon Rover, we did try that one (see: Davis Inlet).

It was an unmitigated disaster, so how exactly Australia came to the conclusion it was a working plan I'm not too sure.

 

[Phrossack]

Have they figured out where all these people are going to go?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, this worked for Stalin, right? I'm sure these aboriginal peoples will make fine urban dwelling factory workers.

 

[Future PM]

Have they figured out where all these people are going to go?

The Mandate of Palestine.

@classical_hero: Your state was the wealthiest in the country just half a decade ago because of the mining boom, and successive governments pissed the boom away rather than using it to the state's best interests. They then immediately returned to asking for the GST to be increased, which has been the Westralian government's default position since 1998. While the Westralian people get my sympathy, their governments do not. Perhaps WA should elect someone more competent. Isn't your current State Treasurer the legendary chair-sniffer?

 

[Future PM]

Apologies for the double post, but this is pertinent information. The Guardian has a good general breakdown of the Western Australian state budget issues today. Since the parlous state of the Westralian budget is the stated reason for the closure of these communities, , I feel it might be worth reading.

Source. It contains some graphs, so I will just link, rather than post the full article here.

 

[Future PM]

Huh, I guess no one was interested. But here is an article from today about Westralia's budget. It's on the verge of losing its AA+ credit rating due to poor economic management.

Source.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, Western Australia brought the GST distribution situation on itself by trying to game the system with royalties and is now playing a deliberate game of brinkmanship. And of course even now they're still spending more per capita than other states.

As for the closure of the communities, the arugment that "these lifestyles are unsustainable" is hogwash as long as state and Commonwealth budgets continue regional cross subsidisation of non-metropolitan areas. And hey of course it's not the non-aboriginal remote communities which are under threat.

And for that matter we fund city lifestyles too.

Which of course we should, because where people grow up and live isn't a "lifestyle choice", it's where people grow up and live. People live somewhere, you as the state meet their basic needs as citizens such as healthcare and education and social welfare. Anything else is forced relocation. This stupid argument is a prime example of the fallacy that "the economy" is an end in itself as opposed to a tool for meeting people's needs.

 

[Future PM]

I think it's obvious to everyone that the other states will not take WA's crap at the upcoming COAG meeting, and WA isn't going to get a greater share of the GST. Despite Abbott and Hockey desperately wanting to maintain support for themselves in WA, the only state where they are personally doing okay, they won't convince the other state and territory governments to accept more Westralian exceptionalism.

I feel the WA government is attempting to shift the blame for its parlous budget onto the Federal and other state governments rather than to accept blame for itself. I doubt it will work until the next WA election in 2017, but the only other alternative is actually reforming the Westralian economy, and that's not going to happen under the current government. It's also unlikely to happen when Labor gets back in, unfortunately. Their economic system is fairly ingrained. At least they haven't been bitten by the privatisation demon.

 

[Future PM]

What is with this library's internet? Apologies for another double post.

 

[classical_hero]

Succession has once been voted for by WA and if we left Australia would be up a river without a paddle. Take thing for granted and you will realise how much you lose. Much of the land was considered useless until recently. In fact all policies have been done to make sure we have been screwed right from federation. Quite frankly we are not getting any value for what we put in to the federation and this will change.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/25250091/weve-paid-our-way-nahan/

New figures from WA Treasury also reveal that more than $8200 per West Australian a year goes to other States and Territories.

Dr Nahan told The West Australian that arguments by other States that WA had been propped up in past years were ignorant of the Federation's history.

He said WA originally received equalisation funds because Australia's tariff wall protected manufacturing in the Eastern States at the expense of WA's agricultural export-oriented economy, harming WA living standards.

WA Treasury's annual analysis of redistributions under various Federal policies - not just the GST but also income, company and other taxes and all Commonwealth expenditure - reveals WA contributed $51.8 billion to the Commonwealth.

It got back only $31.4 billion in 2012-13, effectively a subsidy of $20.4 billion for the rest of the nation.

That figure has grown 25 per cent in the past two years.

WA's contribution to the Federation in 2012-13 was 10 times that of the only other "donor" State, NSW ($2 billion), and more than 30 times more than NSW on a per capita basis ($8237 per West Australian to $268 per NSW resident).

Net beneficiaries were Victoria ($46 per person), Queensland ($1567), South Australia ($3974), Tasmania ($8683) and Northern Territory ($16,146).

Treasury said the inequity was from high levels of company, income and mineral extraction taxes from WA, its low draw on Federal social security and health payments, low Commonwealth spending on services in WA and the falling share of the GST.

Leaders of other States, including Tasmanian Premier Will Hodgman, have argued the GST system should not be changed because it was not long ago that WA was a net GST beneficiary.

But Dr Nahan said WA had paid back much more than it had received, contributing $8.2 billion more than it got back in GST and the forerunner Commonwealth grants over the past three decades.

This rose to $152 billion when adding all revenue and expenditure in the same period.

Dr Nahan said to say WA was propped up for years was wrong. "Tariffs were effectively a tax on exports and we had to buy expensive cars, whitegoods, tractors, you name it, to protect (Eastern States) industry," he said.

"Then, in the 70s and 80s, all the heads of the mining companies were based in Melbourne but there was no mining activity.

"They didn't want us to compete for all that payroll tax … so they agreed to compensate us.

"You add it up, we have been a net contributor. We've more than paid back all the compensation we received since the tariff wall started falling in the mid-80s."

Shadow treasurer Ben Wyatt said the situation was about to get worse because of the Government's failure to stand up to the Prime Minister's plans to cut Federal funding for Aboriginal communities, transport, health and education.

It is amazing how ignorant you guys are.