Average salaries of Engineering, BA, and LAS
- Thread starter Archbob
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innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2006
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Will you stop with your obsession for what's the highest paying career? Not everyone wants to go into that rat race. And even those why happened to hold such "valuable" degrees may very well chose to so something else rather than chase money around the world.
Two facts:
1) there is little growth in jobs on "technical fields in the developed world. They could not and will not absorb even a small fraction of those liberal arts students.
2) even among graduates in technical fields there are plenty of people who won't dance to the tune of some multinational, being mover around the world as part of their "career", just for a somewhat higher wage. There are those who like that, sure, but also those who don't - people come in all kinds, and that is a good thing.
They still have to take a set number of classes that every med school requires in some permutation - biology, chemistry, and physics. Which is basically what you'd call a general sciences degree anyway, especially compared to other countries around the world that might not have the same sort of years of schooling/university structure as the US. Of course people can do more on top of that and take other courses/other majors.
The point to those not familiar with the US is that you can't just take whatever and not take those classes to be pre-med - which IS possible with pre-law, so medicine's not the same.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
1) Thats not true, many companies, especially in the silicon valley area are having tough time filling positions in tech majors
2) Most of these companies aren't going to send you overseas.
I know not everyone likes being realistic but there are so many people who choose a major in college because its "fun" or "easy" and then whine when they don't get a good job upon graduation. People really need to pay a lot more attention to career statistics.
I'm actually surprised they didn't mention petro engineering in the stats. Its the high-paying engineering major by a far stretch.
some do. some have goals that require huge amounts of income.
technically those are all liberal arts.
And this data is badly out of date. The average starting salary now for any college graduate is only $27,000.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/business/economy/19grads.html
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
But we were told that everyone had to go to college and that we'd all be richer because of it. Does anyone dare question our enlightened overlords?
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
You are probably going to be richer because of it because most living wage jobs require a degree.
Maniacal
the green Napoleon
Man wouldn't it be awesome if everyone automatically knew what they really wanted to do so they could be sure to plop down the money/take out the massive loans required for the more specialized and/or difficult and longer degrees instead of feeling forced to go to college right or soon after graduating highschool because of the pressure put on them to go to college and get a degree.
Bloody magic man, bloody magic.
Bloody magic man, bloody magic.
1) That does not seem completely true as the developed world continues to import people with technical backgrounds from the third world. Look at the amount of chinese and indians working on technical stuff in the US, for instance.
2) Good luck paying for their loans then. Just don't come whining for the nanny government to further subsidise them because they want to stay next to mommy.
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
The OP uses average, your study uses median. So it's more of what the studies are aiming for than one being 'outdated' or 'new'.
Here is the more recent study from the same source as the OP:
http://www.naceweb.org/Press/Releases/Average_Starting_Salary_to_Class_of_2011_Up_3_5_Percent.aspx
(unfortunately the article doesn't have a detailed full list like the OP, and probably why the OP chose the slightly older study)
Liberal Arts degrees are transferable to multiple disciplines...you don't need a "marketing" degree to work in marketing, for example. I have a liberal arts degree but work in a general business setting, and my salary is closer to what a Business Administration guy would be making. Most people in my department have liberal arts degrees too. Outside of maybe accounting, there aren't too many entry level business jobs you can't get with a non B school BA.
At the start and in mid career, an Engineering guy is going to make more. A really elite liberal arts major can prob outearn the Engineer by getting into management though. Its all moot, because our K12 system doesn't prepare enough candidates to become Engineers, and we don't have enough Engineering jobs open to take them all, even if we all did (plus, Engineering wages would fall if they became less scarce).
At the start and in mid career, an Engineering guy is going to make more. A really elite liberal arts major can prob outearn the Engineer by getting into management though. Its all moot, because our K12 system doesn't prepare enough candidates to become Engineers, and we don't have enough Engineering jobs open to take them all, even if we all did (plus, Engineering wages would fall if they became less scarce).
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Well, more education probably leads to more innovation, so we know the economy isn't a zero sum game. But even if it is, more education would lead to a greater demand for less educated labor, bringing what's left of the developing world into the fold. So it's a win-win.
Anyone else enjoy that an economics degree fetches more than a business degree?
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
There will always be exceptions to the rule, but if you want to see how majors generally fare, you have to look at statistical averages and medians. Obviously not all LAS majors can switch to be engineers, but we could use a few less of them and a few more engineers in today's job market.
Right, but how much is a few? 25% I doubt it, unless some agree to work overseas. 15%? What happens when the rest of the business market picks up, and folks start retiring on time again?
It is frusturating that the conversation seldom turns to "how to produce more students capable of doing STEM work?". You cant plug and play History majors into Chemical Processing.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
It would help if the USA didn't glorify football so much and focused on Math and Science. Those subjects need to be seen as "cool" or "good" instead of the people studying them being "nerdy".
Schools and society really need to promote it more, unless they want more starving artist types. Honestly science and math education sucks in the USA.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Actually here, the engineers get offered management positions usually after 3 to 5 years of actual technical work. So I don't think LA could ever outearn an engineer unless he made something extra special.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
I think you're mixing up the problems, here. I don't see how liking football is incompatible with liking math and science.
The thing is, math and science tend to attract more savant types where that ability is more blatantly obvious. They're hard, technical fields, and from a young age students aren't really trained to think in terms of yes and no, correct and incorrect, but on a scale where different ideas exist on a gradient between Not-Quite-Right and Not-Quite-Wrong. To be good at math and science you have to either resist this unintentional conditioning or have a knack for it - since most people don't do well in those fields as a result of the appalling lack of focus placed on them in grade school, they see those who are good at math and science the way all those who are different are seen in a society.
There's a really strong chance that I have misinterpreted the problem, but it seems to me that, from a young age, children are not taught to solve problems that require the kind of thinking you see in math and science.
_random_
Jewel Runner
I'm not sure about the extent to which those stereotypes apply. Nerdy interests really don't carry that much of a stigma, and there's been a lot more emphasis on STEM education (of rather dubious quality, granted) lately. I actually wanted to be a scientist for a long time, but I found math to be too difficult to pursue a math-heavy career. Of course, every school I've gone to has been pretty liberal arts-focused, so blame you can blame my mediocrity in math on whatever combination of poor education and natural inability you like.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
I think its all a matter of practice. The general norm of hours for math is insufficient for the average person. They forget the core skills too quickly and when the 'hard' stuff comes along they are busy catching up or thinking what the hell does that even mean?
More drilling of the basics and better classes with an approach that can appeal to the common man without dumbing the math down. Easier said than done, I know. There are however, very good professors at this. If only cloning was viable...
More drilling of the basics and better classes with an approach that can appeal to the common man without dumbing the math down. Easier said than done, I know. There are however, very good professors at this. If only cloning was viable...
