AW Shucks

[vanatteveldt]

Some comments:

- build 1 city in the north (ruin site)

I think we should build a city on the gold+deer spot and a second one north of the ruins for the iron and riverside grass. (otherwise, I could have just kept the city...)

- build FP in cuzco (quite central) and decent production

Hmm, hadn't thought of that. I guess it would be a lot quicker than a new Amazonian city, and it'll be more central than colombia.

- build economy in every possible city not already on settler duty: forge, courthouse, library, market in that order

I would personally drop the library and market in all cities except for the really good cottage cities. Any other city should build wealth after forge+courthouse to allow slider to 100% and make good use of the library+acadamy there. IMHO we should gear up for production, not all purpose commerce. (in other words, I am advocating a "hammer economy")
- machinery to build watermill cities in the amazon (we will need at least one, 2 is better)

There is no immediate rush for this. These cities will first have to be built, jungle cleared, farms irrigated, and grown to decent size (certainly >6) before they can start with watermills. Most cities will have some hills to build terrace+ch+forge, and they don't need any other infra. I would advocate CS, I think, I'm not convinced tech stealing will be worth the bother (what does monty have that we really want?), but I guess we'll have to get alphabet at some point...

- move panama canal

I would just build a panama city with the fish, it should be productive quickly enough and pay for itself.

- what to do with our navy?

Until we build triremes we should keep them at least in pairs to survive. I left two in the north to guard our workboats there, I think we will need one or two on the Chilean coast and the others can stay in the Carribean. Once we settle SA there should be no barb galleys from there.

 

[astre]

Some comments:

- build 1 city in the north (ruin site)

I think we should build a city on the gold+deer spot and a second one north of the ruins for the iron and riverside grass. (otherwise, I could have just kept the city...)

tought it was an autoraze as it get a food in BFC. but ok with the proposition

for the rest: seems interesting
didn't tought of hammer economy. any comment on this hammer economy?

 

[vanatteveldt]

Well I don't want to start an "X-economy is the bestest" war here . What I simply mean is that most cities that don't make very good cottage cities should concentrate on getting as many hammers as possible so they can skip expensive infra and be productive asap, and can switch to war production more flexibly... I think building wealth to get 100% science to concentrate beakers in the library+academy+,,, cities is more appealing than spending the hammers to work on libraries and markets everywhere...

 

[astre]

any more comment before i play the set?

 

[vanatteveldt]

Go for it

Re the northern city: I actually talked about razing it in the PPP and didn't get any comments, so I figured people agreed that it was not a good city. My reasons for razing were that it was mediocre city that blocks the spot for two good cities, using the gold in the south and the green riverside in the north of the spot...

 

[astre]

will play this afternoon i think

 

[pigswill]

Building wealth in prod cities to run high slider in science cities is generally a good strategy.

Sounds a pretty decent plan for this set.

Getting FP before settling further in the south might be worth considering. We could probably do with a couple more axes in Amazonia, having workers chopping out jungle before we settle also might make sense.

 

[astre]

Played 11 turns

Well, i got alphabet, FP and last monty big city with no loss.

except for that, i build buildings, lots of buildings: forges and lighthouse everywhere i could, libraries and maket in commerce cities and 1 barrack in mexico as it will be our military city i think.

The whip was put at good use trying to do 2 pop whip as mutch as possible.
A couple of more whip can be use this turn but i wasn't sure. Next player to decide.

I am moving the GS in north america to settle somewhere.
A spy is on the road to try to steal something from monty.
Barbarians start to appear in canada. I'm afraid i moved too mutch of our army in the south to fight monty. Should be good to move some back...
Our fur source was destroy 2 turns ago and need to be rebuild but we need more police army before that.
killed our panama canal as colombia needed the cottage but that should not hurt us at this point as a boat is ready to do the ferry.

3 settlers are marching on: 2 in very south of america and 1 in the central north of US who did not moved this turn to decide together where to plant it.
I didn't want to chose where to settle so close to the end of the set. see picture attached to decide where to plant it (black or white site? the second site will be planted latter).

EDIT: black city will need to be placed 1 N of indicated tile. my mistake.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Good work, sounds like we're getting close to dominating the continent. I'll have a look at the save when I get home.

My intention for the gold city was further south, allowing the other city to get the northern riverland and function as a border town. I'll post a dotmap proposal later... Edit: I think whatever site has the gold should go first . We still need the quick cash I think...

----

astre just played

lymond is UP

nocho on deck

pigswill

r_rolo1

Tachywaxon

vanetteveldt

 

[lymond]

Got it! So much going on. I'll take a look at things closely tonight, as I've only been keeping a cursory eye on the game recently....since Tachy's magic TS.

 

[vanatteveldt]

That is what I had in mind. Red is a good production city with bonus gold to pay the rent. Blue is a good frontier city, which will be built up quickly because of the forests. Cottages would be good but might be sensitive to barbarians, but the city has 12 grass, mostly riverside. Green is probably a later filler city but has 8 grass, iron, and fur.

Alternative is to move green to the coast (1NE) to get the lakes lighthoused, but than we need to move blue SE (or 2E) to get the iron.

In retrospect I should probably just have kept the monty+roosy cities up there to save on settlers, but I was afraid of the maintenance (I hadn't realized the palace would be done so quickly...)

Edit: the SA dotmap in the savefile looks fine, but wait a bit with the eastern brasilian city until we've explored some more as there are some precious metals there that can be connected to seafood IIRC.

 

[lymond]

Ok...sorry folks.

Seems we have quite a large empire now in the Western Hemi and Monty is short for this world.

I would press on Monty to end him, but his remaining cities don't look worth keeping at all. I think we should resettle the Pacific coast.

Production and growth still seems lacking in SA, but feel it is time we start settling Western Brazil and Bolivia for cottage spam.

I also think with as many cities as we have and less local threats, that we need to start dedicating cities to research and pump through some techs. Thus, building wealth and research in some cities while dedicating others to expansion and defense.

Anyone know what we've done about Great People to date? Not sure if we've popped any yet. If not, we should probably have a high food city start the process of producing great people for some bulbing.

We're not going to have the luxury of holding out on those huts too much longer, I think, unless we shoot for Optics in the near future. I expect the AIs will cross the ocean fairly soon.

Anyway, short plan:

-Wipe Monty/Raze cities
- Settle West Brasil
-Settle Deer/Gold on red spot...look fine to me.
- More Research focus....Civil Service seems a given. Not sure if we want to open Astro afterwards for the huts action or direct research elsewhere. Not sure what our bulb option or timings are at the moment. I'm sure I can shave quite a bit of time off of CS.

Feud may not be a bad thing to have in the near future either for defense....we are hitting the danger zone soon.

I'm not sure we want to over settle either as it will tax our economy and research. Some fog busters might be good idea though as we will soon start to see advanced barbs coming out of the darkness.

Edit: and it would at least be good to get Monarchy under our belt, maybe before CS as we could knock it out in a few turns and switch to HR with Bureau and really start to grow some of our better cities.

I'd like to hear from Tachy on this as well.

 

[vanatteveldt]

Sounds good. I would not build too many cottage cities, we will probably need mass production as well since we can't hope to catch up with the AI before they arrive, and as you state the production cities can help commerce by building wealth to keep the slider high.

We've popped at least one GS, no idea where he is . Our new capital Chicago had an academy already I think when we captured.

Monarchy makes sense if we have a happy problem, but we have quite a lot of happy resources now (3 precious for 6 happy, fur, 2 calendar=+9?) so it might not be that urgent?

I think we should be able to settle some more with our economy getting better (FP, courthouses), but we should probably only settle useful cities; but there are quite a number of them left: western brasil cottage paradise, coastal brasil precious metals, argentinian food, washington state precious metals etc. But I feel confident that they should be able to pay for themselves relatively quickly with building wealth. A production city should build granary -> forge -> wealth, and a commerce city should only have an extra library. But you can judge the economy better than I.

It seems that Tachy has given us her contributions all at once ;-)

 

[Manco Capac]

It seems that Tachywaxon has given us its contributions all at once ;-)

Well, I'll see what I can think of the situation soon (later in the day). I lost too much time trying to convince a certain Obsolete just to be called a cheater (because I reloaded three times in the OCC IMM game where I couldn't bribe off anyone because of low land ratio and AI Ragnar was about to conquer the world.). SGOTM took lots of time too. Kaku is too bureaucratic!

Yeah, I way too much overtook a certain part of the game and should have contributed homogenously.

How early NTT EMP AI's can get Astro? Because that is the true breaking point. If they meet us with caravels, that doesn't mean much if they can't reach us. Even more, the AI tends to automatically put the science slider 20% down once in war state, slowing them down in getting Astro.

 

[vanatteveldt]

How early NTT EMP AI's can get Astro? Because that is the true breaking point. If they meet us with caravels, that doesn't mean much if they can't reach us.

Good question, I don't really feel like playing a shadow up to that point . However, since the AI will have done little expanding and some of them have really good land, they should have been teching a lot faster than us. One thing in our favour is that since we don't have any religions with a bit of luck they have some religious wars going on over there.

I would expect to meet the AI somewhere in the not too far future.

Even more, the AI tends to automatically put the science slider 20% down once in war state, slowing them down in getting Astro.

That is true... but they will also start massing units to send over as soon as they do have astro, and they will gradually end most of their own wars because of the shared struggle bonuses.

I guess that as soon as we see a caravel we should start massing troops, and we had better have at least longbowmen by then, but preferably quite a bit more...

Edit:

It seems that Tachy has given us her contributions all at once ;-)

Originally Posted by vanatteveldt
It seems that Tachywaxon has given us its contributions all at once ;-)

I think someone who seemed in the know referred to you as a lady and as 'Tachy', but I guess from the subtle correction that you would prefer us not to?

 

[lymond]

Sounds good. I would not build too many cottage cities,

this is a good point really. We could just farm/watermill/workshop the Brazilian/Bolivian jungle area - it would be different if we had settled that area much sooner

Tachy - any thoughts on the best tech path here?

 

[Manco Capac]

this is a good point really. We could just farm/watermill/workshop the Brazilian/Bolivian jungle area - it would be different if we had settled that area much sooner

Tachy - any thoughts on the best tech path here?

Man...when do you play? I'm getting torn apart with all duties.

 

[nocho]

I'd definitely favour hammers from SA. So I'd head for machinery and probably guilds.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ok, before dying out of fatigue, here are my thoughts:

• We indeed need a tech plan: looking at wonder list and noticing how slow the AI's are, then we might go for the regular Liberalism path. But what to take indeed. Short term, Astro is out of question because no trades routes and not ready to invade the world if invasion is a taken victory route. My ultimate final path is get Rifling as soon as possible because that's the defensive power we need against oversea AI's. My guess as lib prize is Nationalism to build Taj Mahal to generate more GPP. GPP is going to be our tech bursts. For short term, that's okay to continue CS, but we have to gun for Literature to set up NE in Austin (best food spot?) and generate GScientist. My guts tell me to go for the NE first so to use slavery to set up NE before switching to Caste/Bureaucracy for a 1 turn anarchy. Then generate GScientists like mad to get through Lib and avoid Machinery to partially bulb Lib. Other scientists can be used to bulb PP.
• Notice we have a whale resource near capital if one wants Optic, but I don't see the use of Optic unless it blocks a strategic bulb.
• Do not kill Monty. We have to steal all he has.
• Monarchy doesn't seem urgent now.
• I liked what Van proposed for a hammer city.

Ok, too late now. Will see tomorrow.

 

[lymond]

Do not kill Monty. We have to steal all he has.

Ah...good point. I'll just contain him for now and get some spies out.