Babylon with a box please?

[Schuesseled]

The thing is... do you really believe theyre going to just give you a piece a paper with a code in exchange of your money?

No steamworks game has ever been sold that way. They sell a normal dvd with all the necessary files for an install. You just need internet for activation afterwards.

And sorry if i over-reacted. But all this steam-related rumourology is 99% of the time plain non-sense.

unless your internet is super slow, you might as well just download it, i mean is quicker to hop out to your local GAME store or walmart, not always.

 

[12agnar0k]

unless your internet is super slow, you might as well just download it, i mean is quicker to hop out to your local GAME store or walmart, not always.

Expecially if you have to wait for an hour in a special midnight opening of the store to sell the game a few hours earlier.

You remember that bro, when we got GTA3 I believe.

Intense.

Digital Downloading is so much easier, though it can be a little quicker to take a trip to the store, its so much easier to just get with the click of a mouse.

 

[The_J]

unless your internet is super slow, you might as well just download it, i mean is quicker to hop out to your local GAME store or walmart, not always.

For me it isn't.
Just calculating, if Civ5 was 4 GB, it would take me 40 hours to download it with my mobile phone connection. To go to the next shop is sure faster.

 

[12agnar0k]

For people with bad internet connections or dial up, or poor ISP, or who live in rural areas without good internet (or local stores to sell it for that matter ) then yes it may well be quicker to drive to a store, and then that is indeed what you will do.

 

[PieceOfMind]

There are even more reasons than that. You can have a fantastic ISP, be inner city, and have a broadband connection, but if there a problems with the actual infrastructure (damn you, Telstra!), then none of those earlier things count for much.

Still, my connection is nearly average according to download tests, and it's likely that a disc version will be a lot more convenient for me. It took nearly a week to download a 10GB game off steam. It's nowhere near the "instant" that is often described, but that it depends on your connection is obviously fair enough.

 

[12agnar0k]

Yup, a lot of digital broadband infrastructure could do with being improved world wide, its the digital world "insert samuel jackson punch line". Lets get broadband speeds super super fast EVERYWHERE. I want a one terrabyte upload and download speeds, I want it I want it I want it.

 

[Gamemaster77]

Yup, a lot of digital broadband infrastructure could do with being improved world wide, its the digital world "insert samuel jackson punch line". Lets get broadband speeds super super fast EVERYWHERE. I want a one terrabyte upload and download speeds, I want it I want it I want it.

Screw broadband, lets get fiber optics!

 

[DefunKt]

unless your internet is super slow, you might as well just download it, i mean is quicker to hop out to your local GAME store or walmart, not always.

Im not sure why you quoted me. Your response has nothing to do with what I said.

Say no 2 pieces of paper with codes!

 

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

lol @ the box with nothing inside idea, pass the parcell with a tictac inside anybody?



Yes this is genuine concern but its not a Steam issue, it is a development one, will DLC be taken into consideration and development designed so that all DLC difference won't end up segregating the players. I.e will player A with no DLC be able to play player B with full DLC, I hope so is my answer. I hope the development is done to an acceptable standard. I'm not so much concerned that someone with DLC will have an advantage over someone without, hopefully this is too taken into consideration and that all civ's released be it in vanilla or DLC are balanced to not be overpowered. I'm sure it will be. But if downloading DLC will cause you to have less people to play against, this is not good at all.

Hopefully we will get a confirmation at some point that DLC will not result in combaitability issues.

....

As for the topic creators point, no Bablyon will not be shipped in any box version at retail stores, the only way that you will be able to obtain it on release will be via Steam DE edition. Its likely however that it will be released again via DLC or Expansion pack to generate more profits and then everyone will have the chance to get it even if they brought the box edition. So yes it is likely that if you buy the box retail edition standard or collectors, eventually via a small DLC which wont take up much of your monthy allowance you can get it. Though nothing has been set in stone.

Hope I was helpful.

I never said it was a Steam issue. I like Steam. I just don't like 0-day DLC.

 

[12agnar0k]

I appologise, sometimes I don't make it clear who a response is aimed at, I quoted you because you raised a valid concern, and it is one a lot of people blame steam for, and my "its not steams fault" propoganda was aimed at other people and not at you, I merely quote the concern because that was the subject I wished to discuss,

I can understand not liking DLC on day one, its a bit pointless to try and make extra money after just selling the game, but I don't necesarily disagree with giving consumers extra stuff for going with Exclusive more expensive deals. Such as Steam's DE or the CE in retail stores (note, the CE has no dlc ), but if they did, I would not fault them for it.
What I would disagree with is 1 day after the release of the game selling various DLC packs for extra civ's, whats the point in that, they should have just included them in the game and put the price up a bit if they want more money, DLC should be something to get you re-vitalised into the game after playing it and the game loosing a bit of mytsique.

 

[jdp29]

This is a rather interesting thread. On the one hand, you can't blame Firaxis for trying to make more money with the Steam option, after all, CEs often have more goodies than the normal versions.

However, if Civ V is highly customizable and moddible (that a word) then why even bother with the DL version? Someone is going to just make a mod of Babylon and everyone will use that. The only way that won't happen is if Firaxis finds a way legally or thru the software to prevent it from happening.

 

[Churchdown Yank]

... DLC should be something to get you re-vitalised into the game after playing it and the game loosing a bit of mytsique.

I agree with this - and also the comments about possible fragmentation of the community.

Most of the fun I've had with Civ IV has been playing along with the XOTM games or other online games in the "Strategy and Tips" forum here. If a bunch of people have Babylon and a bunch of people don't, it makes it kind of hard to organise these group games.

Perhaps:
Babylonian UB: Tower of Babel The Biblical cultural fragmentation device

Of course as for me I plan on being one of the Babylonian-owning Star bellied sneetches!

 

[Kranden]

As far as I see it modding will be allowed except for creating a mod to include Babylon.
If you do that may god help you for stealing their dollars!

/firing squad.


oh and if you're worried about DLC ballance dont be scared, this is the future.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/3/26/

 

[AriochIV]

I don't see how they can disallow it. They can try to block such mods from their in-game mod browser, but I don't see how they can prevent you from downloading and installing it manually.

 

[DalekDavros]

I don't see how they can disallow it. They can try to block such mods from their in-game mod browser, but I don't see how they can prevent you from downloading and installing it manually.

I don't know what (if anything) they'll actually do, but from a technical standpoint there are ways to do this. Off the top of my head:

1. The game could report mods used to Steam upon loading (this would, of course, be marketed as offering some obscure benefit to the player). The Steam license agreement allows them to cancel your account and remove access to all games that you've bought for any reason whatsoever (although this is avoidable if you play exclusively in offline single-player mode and never download update patches), so they could threaten to do this if you use mods they don't like.

2. Auto-update patches could be released that check for and disable disapproved mods.

3. They could digitally-sign "approved" mods with an encryption key and have the game refuse to run unsigned mods.

4. They could make installing mods manually prohibitively hard, for example by having the mod files integrated into existing files using a proprietary algorithm.

5. They could use DMCA takedown notices against anyone who hosts unauthorized mods.

I think that it's unlikely that they will do any of these things (except perhaps #5 in blatant cases of art reuse, perhaps), but they certain could get away it if they chose to do so.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Yes, some of those things are quite scary. And every one of them would go directly to contradict the marketing that civ5 will have unprecedented modding capabilities. I too doubt that any of them are remotely likely.

Even if a Babylon mod is not allowed to be hosted anywhere, one would hope that if they make modding easy as they claim, then there will be a how-to guide for making your own Babylon. Assuming the average user isn't up to compiling their own DLL, that would be about the only thing you would need to download. And in all likelihood, you wouldn't even need a modified DLL anyway.

There really is not much Firaxis/2K can do to stop people modding Babylon.

 

[12agnar0k]

They will sell enough DE on Steam to not care if it gets modded in for free. Similarily they may sell more Civ's via DLC and make enough money on the DLC to not care if some people choose to use a mod for free instead. Mods are generally slow or unreliable or glitchy, not always but its a general assumption, they probably won't contain all the lavish art of the units and leaders either, so most people will prefer to pay for the DLC. Assumeably they will release a Bablyon DLC to everyone at some point. And most people will buy it, even if a mod exists replacing the need for it, because the proper version will be better.

 

[AriochIV]

I think that it's unlikely that they will do any of these things (except perhaps #5 in blatant cases of art reuse, perhaps), but they certain could get away it if they chose to do so.

I understand that there are iPhone style methods of controlling content on a closed platform, but these are incompatible with a PC platform and a game that is supposed to be moddable. Any of these steps would make it nearly impossible for users to create mods, which is kind of the whole point. You can't create and test a mod if the game will only run "approved" mods.

The last option -- to threaten sites that host unauthorized mods -- is certainly possible, but of limited effectiveness.

 

[PieceOfMind]

They will sell enough DE on Steam to not care if it gets modded in for free. Similarily they may sell more Civ's via DLC and make enough money on the DLC to not care if some people choose to use a mod for free instead. Mods are generally slow or unreliable or glitchy, not always but its a general assumption, they probably won't contain all the lavish art of the units and leaders either, so most people will prefer to pay for the DLC. Assumeably they will release a Bablyon DLC to everyone at some point. And most people will buy it, even if a mod exists replacing the need for it, because the proper version will be better.

agnaok, I think you're being too harsh on mods. In general, "slow or unreliable or glitchy"? If I didn't know better, I would have thought you were describing the official game at release!
When mods are under development, sure there will be bugs, but at least with modders you can post that bug information and expect to have it addressed much faster than what the developer or publisher would. The number of patches released for civ4 and its expansions could be counted on probably 2 hands, only 1 hand if you look at only BtS. Big mods usually have updates much more regularly than that.

Most of the mods you can download are mod components rather than grand mods. Rarely does a mod component (like Advanced Combat Mods ) have any of the issues like slowness, being unreliable or glitchy. In fact, if you look at the Unofficial Patch project for BtS, you'll see that modders are fixing the mistakes and bugs that Firaxis made. They are making the game more reliable and less glitchy and also faster (have a gander at the Civ Accelerator mod - aka CAR mod for BtS - to see they've actually made the turn times faster).

 

[12agnar0k]

Well other than the HOF mods, BUFFY and the one for vanilla all mods I have found have either not worked, worked slowly, or been glitchy in some way, but thats just my experience.