Beating the elves to FoL or the dwarves to RoK

[Ringtailed]

It's possible to beat Khazad to RoK (not sure about elves and FoL but I would assume so). But it requires some luck and unless the Khazad are in a ridiculously bad starting spot or getting killed, you really have to use a great prophet to bulb Way of the Earthmother. Try to time it so that your great prophet appears as soon as you finish Mining (research Mysticism first). You're almost certainly going to have to skip education too.
Is it worth the trouble? Well... depends, I guess. Generally for me it's not because I like education better.
On the other hand, I find RoK and FoL holy shrines are good to have because the AI tends to adopt those religions, so you're earning income from the AI spreading the religion to its cities. Also getting the holy city means you get two cities with that religion to start with (holy city AND a disciple) which can help you spread it faster.

 

[Immaculate]

Doesn't the priest bulb philosophy before 'way of the earthmother'?

i.

 

[Ksi]

Kael is right, just take it from them.

 

[xalien]

Kael is right, just take it from them.

True enough, but:

I't not uncommon that when you found another religion in your "original" empire it goes to the same city. Having 2 or more shrines and Bazaar of Mamon in the same city is a very good lubricant for anyone's war machine, especially on huge maps.

 

[Sarisin]

It's possible to beat Khazad to RoK (not sure about elves and FoL but I would assume so). But it requires some luck and unless the Khazad are in a ridiculously bad starting spot or getting killed, you really have to use a great prophet to bulb Way of the Earthmother. Try to time it so that your great prophet appears as soon as you finish Mining (research Mysticism first). You're almost certainly going to have to skip education too.
Is it worth the trouble? Well... depends, I guess. Generally for me it's not because I like education better.
On the other hand, I find RoK and FoL holy shrines are good to have because the AI tends to adopt those religions, so you're earning income from the AI spreading the religion to its cities. Also getting the holy city means you get two cities with that religion to start with (holy city AND a disciple) which can help you spread it faster.

I agree with everything written in this post.

This problem has been a pet peeve of mine since the very first version of FFH. However, you just need to adjust your style of play when you know the elves and dwarves have some 'unknown' advantage in founding these religions. (HINT: Unknown = AI Cheating )

As mentioned, if you are near the elves with your capital city you can pull a mighty fine Pearl Harbor on them usually. They send all their Scouts out exploring leaving their capital city undefended. In a longer speed game like Epic, it can be quite a few turns before a defender can be built there. So, stroll on over, pay them a visit, and quickly take them out of the game. No elves and FOL is very attainable. If you don't take them out, I am convinced all those Scouts exploring get, um, divine help or something in popping Mysticism and Hunting from goodie huts, then it is a beeline for FOL the elves always seem to win.

This strategy doesn't seem to work with the dwarves and ROK and they are really hard to beat to the founding of that religion.

My strategy is just to adjust as I said. If I find there are elves or dwarves in a game (yes, I do take a peek at the World Builder), I just give up on founding FOL or ROK and focus on founding one of the other religions. It is usually easy to found one in a game - at least at Monarch, the difficulty I am using. Maybe it is tougher at the higher levels.

I just wish FFH had a level playing field when it comes to this, but it doesn't, so you need to adjust your game to compensate.

 

[Halancar]

How do you beat the elves to FoL or the dwarves to RoK at high difficulties (emperor and above) where the AI gets a research bonus?

I wish that you could use great prophets (from pagan temples) to bulb religions but currently they bulb pilosophy after mysticism and not FoL or RoK.

Given that they start with a tech that they need, that the AI can build improvements without worrying about having the tech (so they can cottage without education, and so on), and that they beeline for it... well, you'll need a very large infusion of outside luck. A couple of lucky goodie huts might do Or some wine, gold and gem (without jungle) resources you could grab on the way to RoK, or some ivory and fur on the way to FoL, for extra commerce without cottage and without deviating from your goal.
Rather than a great prophet, I would use a great sage from the elder council and build an academy ASAP. If you start with Ancien Chants, it might come early enough to make the difference.