Berserks01 - Be My Vassal !!! (Warlords)

[frankcor]

Inherited turn (1730 AD): I took a look through our cities. Cologne is starving, evidently the result of losing workable tiles to neighboring cities. It was due to shrink one population next turn, but instead, I swapped work on a Confucian Temple(1) for a Confucian Monestary and whipped it for 3 population and +1 for 27 turns. There was +5 there so I didn't see that as a major problem.

I decided that Saladin will be our next target and I start to gather up an army to position on our eastern border. We don't have a lot of spare units so we'll be building Grenadiers and upgrading some Macemen over the next 10 turns.

IBT: Saladin must have been reading over my shoulder:

He also canceled a trade of sheep and clams.

Khan adopted Free REligion, Free Market and Representation.

Turn 1 (1732 AD): Frankfurt finished a Pikeman, began a Buddist Temple(17). I'd like to grow a Great Prophet here for a shrine in Chartes. Berlin trained a Grenadier and started a Maceman(7). Paris completed a Confucian Missionary, began Globe Theater(23) for the culture. I sent the Missionary to Tlaxcala. Atzcapotzalco trained a Pikeman, began a Forge(11). Teotihuacan constructed a Barracks, began a Maceman(6). Cologne completed its Confucian Monastary and went back to work on its Confucian Temple(1).

I slowed down research to 40% to provide sufficient time for some Macemen to be completed and to earn extra gold for upgrades.

Paris popped its borders and acquired another Cottage tile to work. Calixtlahuaca came out of revolt and was starving. I whipped a Theater there for 3 population.

At Hamburg, one of our Cossacks killed a wounded German Longbowman, leaving a lone Trebuchet to defend the city against Louis' War Elephant, Knight and Musketeer. I just hope Louis doesn't surrender.

IBT: Louis didn't surrender:

Looks like we're going to need some workers there soon.

Turn 2 (1734 AD): Cologne constructed a Confucian Temple, started a Maceman(2). Orleans completed a Maceman, started a Bank(30). Calixtlahuaca constructed a Theatre, started a Library(16). Starvation has ended there.

IBT: Louis and Montezuma adopt Organized Religion.

Turn 3 (1736 AD): Rheims completed a Maceman, started a Theatre(3) -- looked like our buddy Louis had dropped a culture bomb in Marseilles and stole a Town and a Village from Rheims' fat cross.

Turn 4 (1738 AD): Moscow completed a University, started a Maceman(3). Cologne completed a Maceman, began Ironworks(29).

Darn, I found 12 workers sleeping on top of a hill outside of Moscow. And another 3 sleeping outside of Rheims. I wondered how many lumbermills they could have built instead of sleeping. Oh well. I got them started catching up in groups of 3s.

IBT: Brennus adopted Free Market and Representation.

Turn 5 (1740 AD): Tenochtitlan came out of riot and started work on a Theatre(5).

Our Confucian Missionary failed to spread the word to Tlaxcala.

Turn 6 (1742 AD): Yakutsk constructed a Confucian Temple, started a Musketman(8) that will convert to a Rifleman in just 3 more turns. Rheims completed a Theatre, started a Musketman(5).

Turn 7 (1744 AD): Moscow trained a Maceman, started a Bank(10). Yekaterinburg constructed a Harbor, started a University(50) -- amazingly enough, it was our leading research city at the moment. Berlin trained a Maceman, started a Musketman(7) -- ditto in Teotihuacan.

Turn 8 (1746 AD): Frankfurt popped its borders and put our forces only 1 square away from Najran -- We'll be ready to declare in two turns.

Turn 9 (1748 AD): Essen completed a Market, started a Library(13). Atzcapotzalco constructed a Forge, started a Library(13).

I started researching Steam Power (for Assembly Line).

Hypathia (Great Scientist) was born in Frankfurt. He can research part of Scientific Method for us. I sent him to Yekaterinburg where he can build an Academy. We should discuss how we want to use him when he gets there.

Turn 10 (1750 AD): Tlaxcala stopped rioting and I whipped a Theatre there to ease culture and starvation.

Currently, at 40% research, Yekaterinburg cranks out 35.5 beakers/turn. An Academy will add ~18 beakers/turn? Burning the Scientist for research on Scientific Method will be worth 3750 beakers. I guess the latter is the optimal choice.

Should we remember to hire a Priest in Frankfurt when the temple there is constructed? And maybe build National Epic there? I put signs up for some suggestions for city specialization -- feel free to modify.

Here's The Save. Have fun.

 

[frankcor]

Oh, did I mention? DevilJin, you can declare before hitting Enter if you choose. There's overwhelming force with available movement points in and around Frankfurt and a slightly smaller force at Rostov. The Rostov stack has only one Cannon but it should be okay.

There's an Arab worker on the hill south of Frankfurt just begging to be snatched.

Saladin has Riflemen so keep your forces tight together. Lone units may get picked off fast.

 

[berserks01]

Great turns there frankcor

We should keep in mind to watch out for dom limits. We don't want to hit dom limit before acquiring all our vassals.

 

[DevilJin]

Well. I burned the GS for Scientific Method, but in the fighting area, I decided to burn the arabian cities,to prevent domination victory. I also moved some units to our borders near Kublai khan, since the war with the arabs will be easy. About the cities- nothing special really, except from the hermitage i've built in a city near Kublai's borders (I forgot the name, but it was the atzec capital), and jewish temple in frankfurt. Also I decided to build more cannons because we don't have a lot.

I burned Najran

And Baghdad

And damascus

We also got coal

Saladin still doesn't want to capitulate, but look at this

We'll get hit domination if we'll capitulate Saladin or someone else no matter what, so I think that the game is gonna end soon.

Sorry guys..

 

[berserks01]

Good turns Devil.

I've got an idea that might be helpful in winning this variant. Before declaring on Kublai/Brennus gift some strategic cities to them, then have a couple of units nearby to recapture and raze them....

This way we can stop our dom limit and still acquire those remaining 2 vassals. Let me know what y'all think.

 

[GreyFox]

You can't raze a city that once belonged to you ... at least in vanilla, I don't know if that has been changed in Warlords.

What we could do is to to try and raze whatever city we captured, and attack Kublai + Brennus at the same time. We try to capitulate them all on the same turn, since the "XXX has Won a Domination Victory" would only appear in the begining of a turn.

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[Bede]

As an alternative we could try giving strategically significant towns to the vassals as they are captured and burning the rest, or even giving back to them some of the cities we captured from them. And don't push culture at the borders!

Sorry about the snoozing workers but I forgot all about stashing them out of harm's way until they could safely get into Monte's former lands.

 

[GreyFox]

But IIRC, vassal cities count as full count towards our domination limit, right? So giving cities to vassal makes no difference ...

EDIT: I was wrong. I checked the Warlords Info Page, and it states: Half of the vassal's territory and population count towards the master's domination victory AND score. So, giving cities away to our vassal is a viable option


Oh, BTW, this is a got it.

 

[GreyFox]

I played until 1782AD, where Sally finally relents, no longer thinks that "We are doing fine on our own".

That change of mind is of-course heavily influenced by the fact that two of his cities were razed in 1776 and 1782:

Here is where I stop:

Incidentally, Bede posted a message in my turnset:

Geez ... even our vassal is more advanced then we are

>>> The Save (1782AD) <<<

Time for some discussions:

We are now at 430000 sq km, which equates to 59.9% land. This means that another 4% = around 28000 sq km will push us off the limit. Now each tile is 1000 sq km, so with sally added in, we will likely go over the domination limit. So we cannot accept capitulation just as yet.

Two options:

(1) We could gift away some cities to Monty and Louis, then accept capitulation from Sally. Sally has roughly close to 60 tiles I think, so so we have to lose at least 10 tiles to louis or monty to be just under domination. My suggestion is to give 2 cities each to Monty and Louis, and accept capitulation. Then we delcare on KK and Brenus on the next turn.

(2) We could ignore Sally right now, declare on Brennus and KK, and fight until all 3 of them are willing to capitulate, then accept all 3 on the same turn.

I think the 1st option is much better, since with Sally being our vassal, we could move our troops more easily to Brennus. Plus its difficult to fight on 3 front war. 2 front is already difficult.

I could continue to play my remaining 4 turns tonight, or Berserks can take over.

PS> DevilJin, in SG, its customary for a previous player to finish the last turn (i.e. when the "Press Enter to End Turn" message appears), but do not press enter to end the last turn when passing the save to the next player.

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[berserks01]

I like option 1 better as well. That way, we'd have Sally as an ally against Brennus as well. Sick Sally and Louis after Brennus with us helping while concentrating more on Kublai with Monte's help.

You should finish those remaining 4 turns.

 

[Bede]

If you give back a former French or Aztec town the cultural memory will kick in and the borders will exapnd almost immediately IIRC. So two towns will drop the limit nicely.

And giving Celtic towns to Sally as captured, or razing, will also help.

 

[GreyFox]

Err ... so much for option (1)

Then I think of a variation, that is to give some cities to Sally when accepting peace and capitulation, but that doesn't works either

Left with only one real variation of option (1): gift some cities to Brennus or Khan.

Brennus won't accept any cities:

Khan may want some former Monty cities:

It is too big a decision for me to make, so I will leave it at that and give the team a chance to discuss.

Berserks, please take the game ... its late here, so the next opportunity I will continue is 20 hrs later ... I might as well handover

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[Bede]

We could release Louis/Monte from his deal, or is capitulation permanent util the other conditions are met? Then reconquer once the coast is clear

 

[GreyFox]

Since it's a war-time capitulation, there is no way to end it except for (1) the vassal state to grow to >50% of us, (2) the vassal state loses more than 50% of its land, or (3) the vassal state refuse to give a resource tribute, resulting in war (not sure if this applies only to peaceful vassalage or also includes war-capitulation).

No, the only way is to give monty's cities to KK, give some powerful units to Monty (for his own protection, since he is down to one city, and also for him to retake his former cities which we gifted to KK), and then declare war on both KK and Brennus, fighting until the time when both of them agrees to capitulate.

--

 

[GreyFox]

There is of-course one more option: Accept Capitulation from Sally, press enter, enjoy the domination movie, and start a new game ... this time with Domination turned off. Afterall, we'd already screwed up the variant with Freddie.

 

[bobrath]

lurker's comment: Quitter!!!!

I raized early and often in pursuing my conquest via vassal state win. Prolly should have mentioned that earlier to y'all

 

[Bede]

No, the only way is to give monty's cities to KK, give some powerful units to Monty (for his own protection, since he is down to one city, and also for him to retake his former cities which we gifted to KK), and then declare war on both KK and Brennus, fighting until the time when both of them agrees to capitulate.

--

Looks like the way to go and razing both Sallie and Brennie down to a single town before accepting their capitulation.

 

[berserks01]

I've got it, but won't play til tomorrow for more discussions (and cuz I don't have time today )

Looks like it'll be a three way war ... it's gonna be a nightmare keep riots down.

lurker's comment: Quitter!!!!

I raized early and often in pursuing my conquest via vassal state win. Prolly should have mentioned that earlier to y'all

Never!!! They'll all burn before we quit

 

[frankcor]

I think we're screwed. The game is fun to play but now we're trying to manipulate the rules and talking about giving away cities and units? Warlords don't give away cities! Let's re-roll the dice and play it smarter next time.

I got into this game to learn more about vassals and that's certainly been the outcome. Why not put our new knowledge to the test and start the variant over again?

 

[berserks01]

I'm for re-rolling if everyone's up for it. But do we want to just leave this game unfinished?