Betting and Speculation - The "Entirely Separate Hypercube" Civ!

[sukritact]

Just one thing I wonder, what in heaven's name is the basis for Venice? It's seems really ahistorical and un-Venetian compared to some of the ideas in the Italian thread.

 

[cybrxkhan]

If Venice's abilities are OCC, then Enrico Dandolo better be the most badass leader ever or else I will be sorely disappointed.

 

[Arkangelus]

So if Venice conquers a non city state, does that auto raze?

Well I'd assume then you can just puppet it, as normal. If you start razing though, you can never stop!

 

[Gucumatz]

"Norwegian Ski Infantry" was by definition never used by Denmark. Still, you have a point about the Hakkapeliitta.

As for the Comanche, what little I know about them comes from their Wikipedia article (totally trustworthy, right?) which says the separation from the Shoshone "coincided" with acquiring horses.

Clearly I was not present to observe the ethnogenesis of the Comanche people (for whatever that concept is worth), but I don't know that including them under the Shoshone would be that different from the Celtic blob.

Its completely different. Its a Wikipedia article, obviously not a valid source of info at all. The Comanche occupied whats considered southern Shoshone territory these days from 1400-1600. But even then they were culturally different, religiously different, and different in warfare. They were in Texas already for several decades as shown by Spanish records long before they got horses. They were a separate people long before that, just clumped together by Easterners who thought they were just Shoshone.

Its more similar to colonial differences than a Celtic blob. The Comanche are to the Shoshone as the US is to England. The Comanche were more populous, more powerful, and more prestigious than the Shoshone even before horses

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ Gucumatz, did you see my post?

Some hilarious trolling could be done if Venice has a single-city list like the Huns do. Either rename your capital Venice(/Venezia) on your first turn or even if you manually insert two Venices onto your map. With no city list beyond their capital, they'll take names from low down other countries lists... leading the Capital of the Serene Republic of Venice to be like... Peterborough.

Well, no. By all indications, they can't found their own cities, which means they won't start taking from other city lists, they'll be taking cities on the map. It's like the screenshot that shows Kabul in the Zulu city list. The Zulu conquered the city, therefore it is in their city list. That appears to be the claim that Venice is like.

If they were allowed to build settlers, they almost certainly would be given a city list. It's really easy to add the cities if they neglect to do so for any reason.

 

[ImperialChaos]

I kinda got the impression that the "serene" civ was separate from the "bombshell" civ

It wasn't, actually.

If not for the bombshell that is... one of the unannounced civs we're not allowed to talk about yet, I'd even say they're my favorite new civ

Looks like a diverse bunch of civilizations. I also wonder how the older civs will be retooled to coexist with these new abilities.

So T.J. There's a unannounced civ that is your favorite? I must say, are they a real work of art?

I can't say anything yet, unfortunately. We'll have all the most serene details as soon as we get the okay.

http://www.pcgamer.com/gallery/civi...nd-unique-units-and-how-to-use-them/poland-2/

 

[kingchris20]

The Comanche share one thing with the Shoshone, they originated from them......that's it they were a group that broke off and became the Comanche........and agreeably much like the US/England

 

[Seek]

As others have posted, the more I think about the Venice UA the less weak it sounds. Who cares about anything if you get double the amount of trade routes? It's incredibly powerful.

 

[Sir Parsifal]

Just one thing I wonder, what in heaven's name is the basis for Venice? It's seems really ahistorical and un-Venetian compared to some of the ideas in the Italian thread.

My guess is that the planning phase for Venice went something like this:
Person 1: Look at this map of the Republic of Venice. They had scattered colonies all over.
Person 2: How can we represent the 'scattered colonies' thing ingame? Players usually just pack cities together.
Person 1: I know! Let's make it so they can't found cities, and have to take over city-states! City-states are usually scattered, right?
Person 3: Well, they'd have to take over them peacefully. Otherwise, there would be diplomacy hits.
Person 2: We don't want to just reuse Austria's UA. Maybe a Unique Great Person?
etc.

 

[Gucumatz]

I think you misunderstand Louis. You can choose to name your city when you found it. If a player names his capital "Venice", before Venice can found its capital, then it can't use Venice for its Capital name. Imagine what happens then if you put say 10 Venices in the same game

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Regarding Venice :

Maybe we're just misinformed, maybe Venice can built Settlers, but if you think about it, it does ruin the "outside of the box" aspect.

1. Out of the 41 civs that we know off, only 1 has a "crippling" unique ability (India : Recieves more unhappiness than any other civ).

2. We initially thought that Huns would be an "OCC" and we were half-right, they had only one single city, but it was purely astethic wise (they simply borrowed names from other civs)

3. If you DO however keep the Settlers in for Venice, then you are left with rather generic Civ.
- A Unique Great Person has been done before (Mongolia, Khan)
- Ability to "Puppet" City States has been done before (Austria, Unique Ability/Diplomatic Marriage)
- The Great Galleas is more or less a simple generic unique unit. (Which, btw, is a horrible name for a Unique Unit)

So... that would leave them pretty generic and not "never done before"

 

[Arkangelus]

^ Gucumatz, did you see my post?



Well, no. By all indications, they can't found their own cities, which means they won't start taking from other city lists, they'll be taking cities on the map. It's like the screenshot that shows Kabul in the Zulu city list. The Zulu conquered the city, therefore it is in their city list. That appears to be the claim that Venice is like.

If they were allowed to build settlers, they almost certainly would be given a city list. It's really easy to add the cities if they neglect to do so for any reason.

They'll still START with a settler though, just their city list will go:

1. Venice

In much the same way that the Huns have only Atilla's Court. Its part of the game mechanics that, like how in Civ 4 when the city list ran out they'd go to like "New Washington", "New New York", they instead will then take cities from other civs lists.

I'm suggesting mixing it with the way that the game freaks out when you have two copies of the same civ. Before the DLC and expansions you could put 22 civs on a map with only 19 choices, leading to stuff like two Civs called Rome, the second of which's colours freak out and it has Antium as a capital.

So therefore if you have TWO copies of the Venetian civilization on the map, the first one to found founds Venice, the second one... has no other names on their list, and so takes something off of someone else's. Like Sochi or Dalian or something

 

[Gucumatz]

Yea I could imagine with a game of 10 "Venice" Civs in game, only 1 has the name Venice and the others are like 'Berlin', Paris, St. Petersburg, Montreal, etc.

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ Fair enough. I don't think the game is designed around having two of the same civ in the game, though. Once again, it's an easy fix.

The Comanche share one thing with the Shoshone, they originated from them......that's it they were a group that broke off and became the Comanche........and agreeably much like the US/England

The Shoshone include the Western Shoshone, the Goshute, the Northern Shoshone, and the Eastern Shoshone. I assume you think they should be renamed the Northern Shoshone for Chief Pocatello? If it were Chief Washakie, it would be the Eastern Shoshone. But if it's just going to be The Shoshone, I don't see why it would be completely wrong to include the Comanche.

Not that there is any definite guarantee that they're including the Comanche. I just said it wouldn't be entirely inappropriate.

 

[awesome]

While Sweden != Finland and Denmark != Norway, these at least share borders. If they combine Shoshone and Comanches, that would definitely go under the "or worse," since the Comanche pretty much left the Shoshone to go do other things.

 

[Gucumatz]

Again, add up all the population of all the "regional" Shoshone and they wouldn't even come close to that of the Comanche in 1400-1600 era or even in the 1600-1900 era. They were entirely distinct culturally even in the earlier era. Their "split" is viewed in America/east coast with a different light than say the Spanish considered them. They shared a few things still in the 1400s-1600 era, language primarily, but were culturally and socially different

Easily the worst civ since "Native America"

 

[Louis XXIV]

What's the criteria, though? The argument for "Native American" is that it failed to take into account regional cultural differences and resorted instead to stereotype. I don't think it's as bad a that. I think the Irish and Scottish are an appropriate comparison. Common borders isn't really all that relevant, the issue is cultural and linguistic connections.

I don't think there's an confirmation of the Comanche being part of the Shoshone, fwiw, I think this is just speculation.

 

[Gucumatz]

Linguistic exist, but as shown cultural connections were much more limited than you are stating even for centuries prior. The Shoshone chief fits more in the image of your "Sitting Bull" with a feather headdress leader. The two bands of course weren't united, and more often than not they would be at war with each other raiding.

Its more English/American split than Welsh/Scottish. The Shoshone were rather irrelevant and don't deserve to be in on their own right. The shoehorning of the Comanche with them is beyond silly

 

[Dragonflow]

I do wonder what'll be special about the Venetian Grand Galleas of Venice.

 

[Gucumatz]

I do wonder what'll be special about the Venetian Grand Galleas of Venice.

You forgot a few serenes in there