BLM and Protesting

[Estebonrober]

Well since the previous discussion got RD'd and then eventually locked I wan to start a new one because I think there is still and will continue to be plenty of ground to cover on these topics. For example. . .

The GOP talking points, first obtained by Gizmodo and passed out by the Senate Judiciary Committee, suggest that investigators could use “Internet data as a starting point” in launching an investigation. That’s a radical departure from what is understood to be legal and would allow the Department of Homeland Security to collect data on, for instance, every person who visited a website sympathetic to protests in Portland, then begin to surveil each of those people, hunting for a crime that could justify an arrest — an arrest that could then be carried out by unidentified federal troops driving unmarked vans.

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/21/fisa-surveillance-dragnet-warrants-dhs/

One of the most depressing things about becoming progressive type over the last ten years is realizing just how far we have to go to get almost anywhere on our causes. Watching establishment democrats support police state garbage like this reiterates that point.

 

[GenMarshall]

I see it as a disturbing trend that the government would be willing to comb the Internet for a suspect without any sort of warrant. This is more or less setting up a police checkpoint on a website.

 

[Estebonrober]

Yea, well at some point just the threat of being on DHS lists of "deplorables" will discourage free speech. That seems like a fine line but I think it is one that needs to be debated vigorously and not just laid to the side.


A document provided to Lawfare on July 19 from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Office of Intelligence & Analysis (I&A) describes personnel as “collecting and reporting on various activities in the context of elevated threats targeting monuments, memorials, and statues”—and it gives legal guidance concerning the “expanded intelligence activities necessary to mitigate the significant threat to homeland security” posed by such activities.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/dhs-authorizes-domestic-surveillance-protect-statues-and-monuments

 

[Bugfatty300]

One of the most depressing things about becoming progressive type over the last ten years is realizing just how far we have to go to get almost anywhere on our causes. Watching establishment democrats support police state garbage like this reiterates that point.

There's so many people who will admit there's need for police reform but will run back into the arms of the police state the second they see scary things in the news. Stockholm syndrome on a national scale.

 

[Joij21]

Back during 9/11 everyone welcomed the new police state with open arms. No one complained. If another 9/11 happens people will do the same thing.

 

[Mouthwash]

No black lives mattering here, just bored hooligans with nothing to do in quarantine.

 

[Estebonrober]

Back during 9/11 everyone welcomed the new police state with open arms. No one complained. If another 9/11 happens people will do the same thing.

Yes but at least we could be wise enough to have sunsets built into these police state laws.

No black lives mattering here, just bored hooligans with nothing to do in quarantine.

Is this is Israel? Don't you have a doomed apartheid state to run? Or shouldn't you be working faster on your mass human rights violations kicking all the others out already?

 

[Takhisis]

Yes but at least we could be wise enough to have sunsets built into these police state laws.

‘Whenever we have defeated terror, then we shall think of abolishing this’.
It is used by authorities everywhere, regardless of whether the façade is ‘freedom!’ or communism or the national-popular-whatever-or-cratic local lunatic is.

 

[Estebonrober]

‘Whenever we have defeated terror, then we shall think of abolishing this’.
It is used by authorities everywhere, regardless of whether the façade is ‘freedom!’ or communism or the national-popular-whatever-or-cratic local lunatic is.

Yea and actually to even hit the point further home, they do have to "reauthorize" this stuff and it has not failed in 20 years. They just add more and more pork in to get it past outrage.

 

[Kyriakos]

Is this is Israel? Don't you have a domed apartheid state to run?

Fixed.

 

[amadeus]

Don't you have a doomed apartheid state to run?

Considering how Jews are treated in the rest of the Muslim world, barring few exceptions, Israel seems to me quite tolerant towards its Muslim minority.

edit: I like this feature, and I'm not going to poke at the Arab-Israeli hornet's nest

 

[Joij21]

Yea and actually to even hit the point further home, they do have to "reauthorize" this stuff and it has not failed in 20 years. They just add more and more pork in to get it past outrage.

It will never fail in the next 20 years either. Too much power to the oligarchs that they would have to give up.

 

[Estebonrober]

Considering how Jews are treated in the rest of the Muslim world, barring few exceptions, Israel seems to me quite tolerant towards its Muslim minority.

Ok? I guess that excuses systematically removing tens of thousands of humans from their homes militarily and then running an apartheid state? I mean I'm okay with Israel existing, but it is guilty as hell and having an Israeli national lecture on basically any moral ground is pretty much a non starter. It would be like a Chinese national going on about minority mistreatment in the US. @Mouthwash does it constantly as well.

Someone damaged a Whole Foods store! Oh the humanity!

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Moderator Action: There is a thread for discussions on Israel. Please take any and all discussions of Israel there. Thank you.

 

[amadeus]

Yeah, I was thinking about deleting it, but it was brought up by @Estebonrober.

I only recently discovered the strikethrough function, so I'll amend my post.

 

[bernie14]

Yes but at least we could be wise enough to have sunsets built into these police state laws.


Is this is Israel? Don't you have a doomed apartheid state to run? Or shouldn't you be working faster on your mass human rights violations kicking all the others out already?

Ok? I guess that excuses systematically removing tens of thousands of humans from their homes militarily and then running an apartheid state? I mean I'm okay with Israel existing, but it is guilty as hell and having an Israeli national lecture on basically any moral ground is pretty much a non starter. It would be like a Chinese national going on about minority mistreatment in the US. @Mouthwash does it constantly as well.

Someone damaged a Whole Foods store! Oh the humanity!

Self derailment syndrome

 

[Estebonrober]

Self derailment syndrome

I mean I was trying to be polite since @amadeus was being polite. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be petty.

 

[amadeus]

I mean I was trying to be polite since @amadeus was being polite. I'm not sure why you feel the need to be petty.

If I may speak on behalf of @bernie14, I don’t think it was meant as a slight against you, and all of us can talk about other things if we regard them as having relevance.

I would argue that the thread starter has a special privilege in directing topics as they see fit. Anyway, that’s the last I’ll say about it since it risks getting us off-topic again.

Back on topic: I don’t see how a warrantless collection of browser history wouldn’t be a violation of the search and seizure rights of the public as stipulated by the Fourth Amendment. This would of course apply to BLM activists, protestors, etc.

 

[Cutlass]

One of the most depressing things about becoming progressive type over the last ten years is realizing just how far we have to go to get almost anywhere on our causes. Watching establishment democrats support police state garbage like this reiterates that point.

Thing to remember is that the Democrats have been moving to the right on most issue areas since Reagan was in office. Law and order gets votes. Or at least is thought to do so. While authoritarian policing doesn't really lose votes, because the Republicans are still so much worse.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think it would have been a far more powerful movement if it was ALM or similar (speaking about the police reform rallies). Like it or not, you can't hope that a minority movement will get more support than a majority one.